Well, this item is known for some of us, my electrical problem continues, after riding around 5 hours none stop, the battery goes down, the bike electrically dead in the highway, this problem has around 1 year, battery, stator and regulator were replaced.
I have measured the stator /regulator output, I have seen that the voltage goes down at high RPM 5-6k supplying less than 12dcv.
the OEM did not find anything abnormal in the bike.
We will appreciate your suggestions / comments.
Best regards.
Had the same problem with my 2005 Tiger, tested circuits fitted new battery, nothing changed.
To solve my problem I just made up a plug and lead to connect a battery charger to the bikes power out let, If I have not ridden the bike for a week I charge for 30mins or there about's no problems.
After talking to people about the issues there seems to be two opinions.
1) The batterys used do not accept charge if the alternator output is two low, ie the battery is flat and all the load, lights, ignition and heaters are just running off the alternator.
2) The alternator regulator does not turn on if the battery is flat anyway, by charging for 30mins increases the battery float level, the alternator see's the higher voltage and charges as it is supposed to.
The above is theroy if any body can offer something else very pleased to hear it.
I'm having trouble with mine as well. I saw German's post here right after he posted it, but I didn't have anything concrete to post about my own situation (still don't, really, but I am working on it).
To summarize, my regulator / rectifier died while I was in the middle of a Tennessee / Mississippi TransAmerica Trail ride. I replaced the stator on the roadside, thinking that was the problem, but the charging system still wouldn't work. Since I didn't have a spare regulator with me, and we didn't have the time to order the part, the trip was over. I brought the bike home in a rented moving van.
I installed the new regulator and a new battery a few days later, and the bike still isn't charging like it should. I'm getting 12.8 - 13 volts at highway speeds, down to 12.1 - 12.2 at idle. The voltage readings get worse as the engine gets hotter. At this point, I can't take the bike on trips longer than an hour or two, and I have to re-charge the battery every couple of days to keep it above 12 volts.
I suspect that I cooked part of the new stator by running it for an hour or so with a bad regulator. I just bought a new digital multimeter in order to run some tests on the bike. I'll post my findings here.
But I think that a person should replace the stator and regulator as a set, to avoid having problems with the 'surviving' part later on.
Quote from: "Stretch"I suspect that I cooked part of the new stator by running it for an hour or so with a bad regulator. .
Or you just had another fine example of a stator from triumph as a spare :cry:
Nope, the spare was from Electrosport, which also enjoys a semi-dubious reputation. I didn't know this until after I bought it.
I got the regulator from Rick's Motorsport Electrics. They enjoy a pretty good reputation, so I'll be buying a stator from them and matching it with their RR. We'll see how that goes.
Is Triumph so fond of its days with Lucas......
they are recreating that nostalgic era so we will buy their 'nostalgia jackets and shirts?
I haven't enough time to rant about electrics with so much to rant about brakes, suspension, centerstand, et al!~
Ohshitus Tigris Electricitious
Today I changed the Regulator / Rectifier bracket around a bit so I wouldn't have to remove the battery and battery box and all the tank bolts in order to lift the back of the tank, just to get at the lower RR bolt (with 18 inches of socket extensions from the other side of the bike).
Whoever put the RR there ought to be flogged.
Now I can get at the RR and its bolts by merely removing the seats and the left side panels, and it gets the same amount of airflow as it did before.
Airflow around the RR is another issue I'll be addressing shortly. It's tucked up inside the frame, between the frame spar and the tank, with only about a half-inch of space on the front and back of the RR, and the only air it gets is hot air coming off the cylinders, head, and case. I'm thinking about adding some vents to the body-colored side panel in order to get cool air into the space behind it.
As for the parts themselves, we are fortunate that we're not stuck with Triumph® as the sole supplier of charging system parts. In my internetal wanderings, I've found that a couple Hondas use very similar RR's, and practically identical stators (I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese manufacturer were the same), as well as the aftermarket replacement pieces from Electrosport and Rick's Motorsport Electrics.
The downsides of the Electrosport stators are that the wires have no connectors fitted, although they are included for you to cut and set up yourself. It is clearly a universal-fit G75 stator, intended to be used on any bike that calls for a G75 (or equivalent size) stator. Also, the rubber plug found on the Triumph and Rick's pieces is not present on the Electrosport. You must use silicone sealer, etc. to seal the stator wires where they come out of the engine.
I believe Rick's to be the better value, as the prices of the Electrosport and Rick's stator are about the same, in the neighborhood of $130-150 USD, but the part from Rick's has the wires already cut to length, spade terminals installed, and the proper connector and rubber seal fitted. I've also not read of any quality-control complaints concerning Rick's parts.
As posted earlier, I'll be removing the Electrosport stator and replacing it with a new one from Rick's, as well as a new Rick's RR, just to have both parts brand-new (each never having been mated to a shorted or failing partner). The battery is less than two weeks old, and I've been maintaining its charge.
Also, Rick's offers a one-year replacement warranty on his stuff. You won't find that on a Triumph electrical part - if you take it out of the dealer's front door, it's yours.
http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/ (http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/)
Note that Triumph applications are not listed on Rick's website, but they do stock parts for Triumphs. Give them a call or e-mail.
So... it's not as bad as the Bad Olde Days of Lucas, Stromberg, et al, with nothing else available.
The stator on my 03 Tiger failed at ~70k miles and I'm waiting on a replacement from Electrosport. The RR tested fine so I'm not replacing it. Wish me luck. How does the output from Rick's compare with Electrosport? Electrosport claims 20% over stock.
Stretch, I believe your assumption is correct. Running a new stator with a bum RR will take out the stator. I have had that experience with my 81 Suzuki 850G. A you are aware the charging system on that series is problematic. I have owned the bike since new and have changed out a few. Found that changing out both parts at the same time was the way to go.
Over the past couple days, I've been in e-mail conversations with other Tiger drivers from various forums who have experienced this problem, and they all say the same thing... replace the stator and RR at the same time to avoid one bad part frying the new one, and then flip-flopping every time you swap half of the system.
When you replace the alternator on a car (or a Steamer or BMW), you replace essentially the whole charging system except the wiring... the stator (and rotor) and RR are all housed together and replaced en masse. (The 955 rotor is just a magnet bolted to the end of the crankshaft, and shouldn't ever need replacement).
Since aftermarket parts are available from Electrosport and Rick's at a fraction of the cost of Triumph® parts, why not replace everything (except the rotor) at once and be done with it?
Anywho, that's the way I'm going.
Swamper, during my recent internet readings on charging systems, I have read of problematic charging systems on Suzuki GS's. Have aftermarket suppliers been able to iron out the design gremlins?
Andy, I don't yet know the specifics regarding output numbers on the various brands. I'm curious how Electrosport claims a 20% increase in output, when they don't post the actual wattage rating of their part. The 2005 Tiger alternator is rated at 35 amps (420 watts at 12v), according to my manual.
There's nothing on Rick's website about wattage ratings for his replacement parts, so I'm going to have to try and get a technician on the phone and ask him.
I installed Electrex components into my GS and have found them superior to OEM. The units are wired differently to disapate the excess charge. I also made a direct ground from the RR to the frame. Have over 20k on these units , the OEM units only had a 12k service life,
Quote from: "swamper650"I also made a direct ground from the RR to the frame.
Okay, I'll be sure to do that also.
Hi Stretch
When you tested your stator which test(s) did it fail? There are three tests for a stator.
1. resistance between leads, a-b, a-c, b-c.
2. short to ground, a,b,c
3. output @ 5000rpm, should be over 50vac and consistent between legs, a-b, a-c, b-c.
My stator passed the first two tests and failed the third with readings of 70vac on a-b, 68vac on a-c, and 10vac on b-c. I checked it a little over a year ago and it passed all the tests.
I spoke with the tech at Electrosport about replacing the rr as well but decided not to as it tests good.
My output between the legs at idle was about 8VAC, going up a bit at 3000 rpm, and then falling back off. The other tests were OK.
I think I killed it by running it for an hour or so with the bad regulator.
And now my new regulator is suspect because I ran it for a couple days with the weak stator.
I'm saying 'to hell with it' and replacing both (again) at once, starting over with a clean slate.
unfortunatly I am out of house, but for your ref, please find attached the following link.
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/inde ... 9102&st=60 (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29102&st=60)
This is what I learned about Girly's electricity having written and read some threads:
There are some Girlies that work perfectly. And there are some that don't.
The reason why these don't do their job can't be recognized very often. Especially if all parts do their job as singles but do not together as a system.
My conclusion: Buy a new battery every two years and hope for the very best.
Okay fellas, I am thinking I may have an issue on my 02 but not sure. Bear with me here. My bike starts fine when cold, I ride for 20 minutes, get off the bike, fuel up, gear back up, go to start the bike, and it won't start. It wants to turn over but will not do it. After the bike cools down it starts up with some hesitation. I do feel it's electrical and not valve related as they were just done 5K miles ago.
Last week it died, we bump started it, now my check engine light is on (which I reckon will turn off with the 3 heat cycles thing Abruzzi and Stretch mentioned to me on ADV).
I was thinking bad battery but how could that be if it fires right up in the garage? How can I figure this out? I have no idea about voltmeters and checking stators, etc. Electrical issues are the worst because I just don't understand how they work.
Thanks guys.
Quote from: "flux"Okay fellas, I am thinking I may have an issue on my 02 but not sure. Bear with me here. My bike starts fine when cold, I ride for 20 minutes, get off the bike, fuel up, gear back up, go to start the bike, and it won't start. It wants to turn over but will not do it. After the bike cools down it starts up with some hesitation. I do feel it's electrical and not valve related as they were just done 5K miles ago.
Last week it died, we bump started it, now my check engine light is on (which I reckon will turn off with the 3 heat cycles thing Abruzzi and Stretch mentioned to me on ADV).
I was thinking bad battery but how could that be if it fires right up in the garage? How can I figure this out? I have no idea about voltmeters and checking stators, etc. Electrical issues are the worst because I just don't understand how they work.
Thanks guys.
Does it crank but not start? Try shifting to neutral and see if it starts. My 03 Tiger sometimes won't start unless it's in neutral under the conditions you describe. I think it's either a dodgy clutch or sidestand switch,
I just got back from a short ride... I think now that it's the sidestand switch. My sidestand was very loose and I think it's working better now that I have tightened it. I'll post back up if something changes, thanks for the tip.
I had these problems untill I did the charging mod, my 05 now charges at 14.5v at 5000rpm with both headlights on and 12.5v at idle.
Six
which Mod?
Try here
http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/msg,26488 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/msg,26488)
Sasquatch's Voltage Fix...
http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,3843 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,3843)
(whups, too slow :mrgreen: )
Don't get excited. It won't solve the problem of a defective charging system. I ended up replacing my entire charging system at once. I'll keep you posted here on how that works out.
German and Aussie you have the exact same symptoms as I had the charging mod fixed it for me at a cost of £5.Sasquatch's fix is very easy to follow I did mine slightly differently by cutting the wires 6" from regulator red and black. this freed up two extra fused circuits for me to play with.
Hope this helps
six
Stretch I've just read back through the thread it's just a thought but have you done the voltage mod.I'm only asking this as your stator and regulator seem to be normal.If you have done the mod re check all connections and make sure the wires are not getting hot.
Six.
Quote from: "sixx"Stretch I've just read back through the thread it's just a thought but have you done the voltage mod.I'm only asking this as your stator and regulator seem to be normal.If you have done the mod re check all connections and make sure the wires are not getting hot.
Six.
11.9 - 12.1 volts at idle (with the voltage mod) isn't normal. Before all this happened, I was getting 12.8 - 13.0
without the mod.
The wiring is not overheating.
I haven't installed the 'matching set' new stator and RR yet... more pressing things going on.
Hi Stretch,
you wrote:My output between the legs at idle was about 8VAC and you idle at 11.9V- 12.1V used to be 12.8V-13.1V.
My bike idles (1150 rpm)at about 12V with both head lights on and about 12.9v with the fuses pulled.
If I check resistance at A-B A-C and B-C at 200 sorry dont have an omega on my keyboard I get a reading of 8 on all legs.
If I check using the 2000 scale I get 50 at 3000rpm.
My bike is charging. I was riding today 1.5hrs both headlights on gps and half heat on the grips.checked battery before lift off 12.21V arrived home with 12.52V.
What scale are you using?
Six.
Omega? You're reading Ohms - Ω (resistance). I'm talking voltage - V.
But since you've checked resistance... there's supposed to be continuity (low or no resistance) between the legs, as you've found, and infinite resistance between each leg and ground (with the bike off and stator disconnected from the RR). If you have continuity between any leg and ground, your stator is shorted.
My trouble is that there's low measured voltage (engine running, stator connected to RR) across each of the stator legs, 8 volts AC. As I wrote earlier, I suspect that running the bike for a while with a fried RR damaged the new stator. So I'm replacing everything at once, when I get around to it.
Found in my internet wanderings on the subject: http://www.triumphrat.net/triumph-super ... r-bad.html (http://www.triumphrat.net/triumph-supersports/90935-d650-stator-bad.html)
You have to kind of wade through it, as a couple guys are posting contradictory information, but after reading it a few times, it gets clearer.
Thanks for the clarification and the link.
next week i will tell you what is happening with my cat.
thanks for your feedback
I should have mine back together by then also.
Okay, I've installed a brand-new stator and brand-new RR.
But this aint it...
(http://www.electrosport.com/store/images/400/esg750.jpg)
Others have reported good service from their ElectroSport stators, but I had to install this while parked on a grassy spot beside a country road (with the sun going down, of course). That meant cutting wires, crimping terminals, installing the connector, and glopping silicone sealer around the wires to get a seal where they come out of the alternator cover.
And here's my ElectroSport stator after having run about one hour with a fried regulator / rectifier...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Stretch67/IMGP1967.jpg)
Maybe not totally cooked, but it obviously did run pretty warm. It tested okay with the Ohmmeter (not shorted), but it's output was poor, even with a brand-new RR.
Here's the stator from Rick's. Note the terminals, connector, and rubber grommet built in to the wires, just like the Triumph item...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Stretch67/IMGP1959.jpg)
No cutting, splicing, etc. Plug-and-play, as they say.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Stretch67/IMGP1962.jpg)
Here's Sasquatch's Voltage Fix (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,3843) (large black and yellow / black wires) plugged in to the RR, running straight to the battery. Ignore the scorch marks. I used heat-shrink tubing to insulate the soldered connections, and I overdid it with the heat gun.
To remove the Regulator / Recifier in it's factory form, you have to remove the battery, battery box, all side panels, and then lift the tank to access the lower bolt with 18 inches worth of socket extensions. No thanks.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Stretch67/IMGP1964.jpg)
I made a new Regulator / Rectifier bracket that turns the RR around so the bolts are accessible by merely removing the left side panels. Two bolts, two plugs, bada-bing-bada-boom you're done.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Stretch67/IMGP1965.jpg)
As per Swamper650's suggestion: To ensure the RR is properly grounded (helping it to run cooler), I made a ground wire, running it from the body of the RR straight to the Negative battery terminal with 10-gauge wire.
All terminals and connections were cleaned and treated with silicone dielectric grease prior to installation.
The results: The bike idles at 12.3 volts (1100 RPM), picks up to 13 volts at 1500 RPM, and by 2500 RPM the bike is making 14.6 volts, where it stays throughout the rest of the tachometer range. After an hour-and-a-half ride this afternoon, all wires were cool to the touch and the RR was only slightly warm.
So in my case, the cure was to replace both the stator and RR with brand-new, never-run parts at the same time, cleaning and greasing all connections, and installing Sasquatch's Voltage Fix.
I do hope this ends my charging system problems. I rode around for about an hour and a half this afternoon, with everything remaining stable.
Good Luck and Happy Trails.
I replaced the stock Triumph stator with one from Electrosport about a month ago. This weekend I'll be replacing that with one from ricks as the Esport stator doesn't seem to be up to the task.
Stretch
How is the output with the rick's installed?
I don't have an ammeter, so I don't know the wattage or amperage, but it's running at 14.6 volts above 2500 RPM... a full volt higher than it ever did with the stock charging system. I'm a happy camper.
I would recommend replacing both the stator and RR at the same time to anyone having charging system trouble. I went back and forth between one and the other a couple times, and all that accomplished was to fry the newer part each time. I actually spent more money on parts doing the see-saw method than if I had just taken a bite and bought both at once.
As I wrote in an earlier post... the stator and RR in a car's alternator are housed together, so when the alternator is replaced or rebuilt, everything is replaced at the same time, eliminating the see-saw effect.
The stator was $140 and the RR was $120, with free shipping :thumbsup . With prices from Rick's so much lower than the Triumph parts, why not replace both at once?
http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/ (http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/)
Quote from: "Stretch"As I wrote in an earlier post... the stator and RR in a car's alternator are housed together,
or a manly Steamer Alternator , :shock:
Gentlemen,
I have a question, apparently my bike has a current leak, I will appreciate your help in order to know DCV value measured in your bike between batt(+) and fuse box fuse 5 Starter cte, normally needs to be less than 0.2 dcv, I am measuring 3.2 dcv.
Thanks for your help.
My new to me 05 is just over 24k and starting to get a bit testy.
I'm running the Kuryakin LED battery monitor and have developed issues with the battery draining over time. I've also noticed the headlight and tail light both have a flutter to them at idle, and the voltage keeps dropping off to below 10 at higher RPM's.
I'll be calling Ricks for a new RR and stator on Monday morning and will do the Sasquatch mod while I'm in there. Hopefully I can get expedited shipping so they can get it to me before Christmas.
I'm doing the chain, sprockets, and slapping on a new set of Conti Trail Attacks over the Christmas weekend too, it's going to be a new machine when I'm done!!
I'd rather be riding than wrenching, but at least Im wrenching in my garage and not on the side of the road somewhere!
Sasquatch Mods, Stretch's Engineering, Stators-RR's-Fuses...Hell you sure your bike is even a Triumph anymore?
I have not had nor done any electrical mods on my 2006 w/10,000 miles on it. The bike is stock yet (in electrical terms) other than Triumph heated grips and a Garmin Zumo 550 direct wired. I put it on a Battery Tender Junior whenever it's not being ridden.
I go on long 300+ miles rides, alone, into the mountains on some pretty desolate roads that don't have cell service. Am I playing with fire here by not doing some of these mods? What is the minimum I should consider doing? Oh, and I really suck at voltmeters, amp meters or whatever meters.
Think I'll get a SPOT...soon.
The vast majority of folks here are running completely stock bikes, and in tens of thousands of miles have experienced no trouble whatsoever. But based on my experiences detailed in this thread, I now hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
I carry a spare stator and RR on long trips, and have a Datel voltmeter installed in the dash for real-time voltage readings. When the voltmeter displays trouble (less than 12 volts at highway speeds), I can swap the charging system out in about an hour.
Or I may never have trouble with it again.
Wow, thanks to all for a comphrehensive and elegant solution to this problem.
I'm lining up to do an IBA ride on Tigger next weekend, too late to have the parts handy. Wish me luck.
I'd have soldiered on Blithely but a friend with a 1050 Sprint has had this problem recently, which of course got me thinking and worrying.
Cheers
Hola,
Problem solved, I have found the charging problem back of the fuse box, the wiring between the reg / fuse box was more warm than the normal temp, the problem was the connection (wiring degraded) to the main fuse bus.
I rewire the charging sys.
Thanks for all your comments, please let me know if you have a similar problem.