DONT FORGET TO VOTE TODAY. IF YOU DONT VOTE - DONT BITCH.
What he said. + VOTE ANYWAYS BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO BITCH ANYWAYS. :evil:
So voting is a license to bitch?
I hope not. No one listens anyways. :roll:
Quotable quote:
"The best argument against Democracy is a 5 minute conversation with an uninformed voter".
.... which is why we are a constituional republic. The masses can't be trusted to vote, we have elected representatives that cast a vote.
not that this is any better. :wink:
I like to vote because they give me a free sticker I can use to cover up the holes in my wallet....
Sheesh, you guys! :D
What gets me is I don't get a vote, but whoever you guys vote for sure influences us!
Be good, vote well 8)
Ron Paul forever!!!!!!!!!!!!
(just kidding.)
Geof
Whatever party is in the White House doesn't make a whole lot of difference unless that party also controls congress. Then you have to hold on to your shorts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA
Need to put some more Python in me Netflix cue! :lol:
Quote from: "John Stenhouse"Sheesh, you guys! :D
What gets me is I don't get a vote, but whoever you guys vote for sure influences us!
Be good, vote well 8)
Guess you should'a tried harder to win the Revolutionary War then??? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have the "Flying Circus" DVD set. Well worth the coin.
who knows? maybe strange women lying in ponds distributing swords IS a good basis for government!
We have the 'strange women' part covered, no doubt.
(http://elmstreetjournal.com/images/sub/sub_hils_drunk.jpg)
We have the 'strange women' part covered, no doubt.
(http://elmstreetjournal.com/images/sub/sub_hils_drunk.jpg) (http://wonkette.com/assets/resources/2008/04/drunk_hillary-thumb.jpg)
(http://canarypapers.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/palin-hunting.jpg)
thats pretty good stretch, but you forgot Michell. And geof, for the sake of argument, yes, voting is a license to bitch. the right to vote is a fundimental birth right that we enjoy here, and it is our duty to get off our lazy ass once every 4 years and do so. and those who dont vote, really dont have anything to complain about. i agreee with stretch, an uniformed voter is way worse than someone who decides not to vote. still, no matter how it goes tonight, i wouldnt want to live anywhere else in the world, i hold my glass up to America, and ofcourse our vets. :occasion14
Speaking of uninformed voters...
From Howard Stern's radio show...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5p3OB6roAg
I vote every time I get the chance.... there's elections between the big presidential ones - less turnout - and I still vote (especially when they sneak in really bad ideas about spending money in my county! Oh no you didn't!).
But - for the sake of argument - here is one for the "naysayers". Odds of one vote tipping an election.... fun facts about your chance of making a difference with one vote versus, say, dying from a dog bite in the state of colorado...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081102/ap_ ... te_matters (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081102/ap_on_el_ge/vote_matters)
well - time to prep the bike for the new front tire that showed up on the front porch today - watching the results doesn't change my vote - so we'll see who wins in the AM!
check out the govorners race here in washington state. 4 years ago dino rossi challenged chris gregoire and it was the closest in the history of our country. rossi won, but gregoire got two recounts, which she lost, and paid for one more and some how got 133 more votes than rossi. go figure. and now there at it again - who will win??????????(hopefully rossi). votes do count, at least localy :D
There is an interesting post here:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/ ... 00000.html (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/1-in-10000000.html)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3060/2980336553_d4b74b1687_o.png)
It shows, based on state, the probability that you vote will decide the presidential election.
Geof
awesome voter turnout!
some of my teams lost, some of them won. I'm proud that so many turned out to vote!
I'm also glad that the robot phone messages on my answering machine will now dissapear - so tired of getting those political messages on my phone!
cool graph abruzzi
I unplugged my phone. I guess I can plug it in now? Maybe not. :lol:
What was the voter turnout, BTW?
they don't have the actual final numbers - but it's close to 65%. That's huge! Around 137 million people?
The Flim-Flam man is in....
He's set up his table of wares along the side of the road and has passed out the 'cool-aid'.
Take a swig .... if you like .......
be advised . . .
It may be hard to keep down.
If you live in Georgia, keep your phone unplugged. That senate race is going to a runoff election in four weeks.
Geof
(NM has amazingly gone 100% blue on the national ticket. It's been like 40 years since a dem won my congressional district.)
Quote from: "John Stenhouse"Sheesh, you guys! :D
What gets me is I don't get a vote, but whoever you guys vote for sure influences us!
Hell, John, just come over here to Chicago, I'll set you up to vote like WE do, early and often....
First a trip through the local cemetaries, find a recently deceased, get a voter's card....
THAT'S how ya vote, my man!!!
Now if only WE had a Monster Raving Loonie party.
Jeff
Quote from: TigerTraxThe Flim-Flam man is in....
He's set up his table of wares along the side of the road and has passed out the 'cool-aid'.
Take a swig .... if you like .......
be advised . . .
It may be hard to keep down.
Whats the above supposed to mean??
just curious as up till now the posts have been pretty polite.
As a naturalized citizen this was my 2 prez election I got to vote in
And my fav vote was question 2 here in Mass to decriminalize pot as all the stoners are like really happy dude
I've come to realize my political views are generally in the minority among most in this hobby. You just have to accept that others are going to have strong feelings against your guy (or gal: don't get me started on Hillary OR Sarah.) So don't worry about it--emotions get high during an elections.
Having said that, this forum now officially supports decriminalizing pot. I'll tolerate no dissention on the issue. :wink:
Geof
Quote from: "abruzzi"Having said that, this forum now officially supports decriminalizing pot. I'll tolerate no dissention on the issue. :wink:
Geof
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/emoticons/Dopey.jpg) :eusa_clap
Bunch'a old burn-out hippies, the lot of you! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hey Zombie...
It means...
the Snake Oil Obama has been selling....
sounds great .....
but they will find it doesn't set to well
once they've swallowed it.
Well the Bush oil has been a tad hard to keep down as well. :evil:
Well WTF was McSame thinking when he picked Boondocks Barbie for a running mate !
And the last 8 years under a republican administration has certainly worked out well !
Don't get me wrong...
Bush folded like a bad hand in a poker game. There is no doubt his judgement skills are 'adolescent' at best ( a smile and 'let's go')....
but he is not a Socialist.
I wrote McCain a letter over one year ago telling him 'you will not be President of the United States'. The reason, his stance on immigration, his position on Supreme Court selection, and his overwhelming desire to 'reach across the aisle' and work with fellow Democrats. (That may work is some periods of time, but not the current).
As for Sarah Palin.... she was dragged in, over her head. But that is irregardless, John McCain had already lost the battle. He could not 'connect' with the American public.
As for Obama. Mark my words .... working people and business owners
( the ones who employ working people ) will regret the day he was nominated and elected. We have already seen the stock market tumble AFTER the election: Why? 1. Business is sitting tight, knowing this guy is going to raise their business AND personal taxes. 2. There is a huge sell-off of financial assets BEFORE Obama raises the Capital Gains Taxes.
The most devastating ..... Obama will probably select 3 Supreme Court judges.... all Left or Center-Left...... my friends, that is irrepairable damage to this nation for at least 25 years. Obama has already stated the Constitution is flawed and should be changed. With Leftist Liberal judges in the system.... no one will be able to stop that process.
SO I viewed the election not as Obama vs McCain; Not as Democrat vs Republican; Not as Sarah Palin vs Joe Biden..... I viewed it as the most dangerous threat to this nation in the past 100 years. Unlike a physical threat, this is like a cancer.....it has you before you know it. The remedy is usually drastic measures.
If you have children . . . they will not have the freedoms you have enjoyed. That's how Socialism or Marxism works. Bitch at me if you want....but you had better evaluate what you have to lose versus how feel.
That's my last words on this 'cool-aid' election.
someone once said ................
The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time,
but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.
and I'll go away now !
Quote from: "Mustang"someone once said ................
The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time,
but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.
and I'll go away now !
yup that about sums it up for me too
next time, im voting for abruzzi, but you'll have to get rid of the FAA, and drug testing at work :D l
Quote from: "aeronca"next time, im voting for abruzzi, but you'll have to get rid of the FAA, and drug testing at work :D l
And the IRS. 8)
Quote from: "aeronca"next time, im voting for abruzzi, but you'll have to get rid of the FAA, and drug testing at work :D l
Haven't you ever heard of flying high?
Geof
This election taught me two things -
1: All my friends are closet racists.
2: Almost any statement that Obama is a Socialist/Marxist/threat/etc., can have the Socialist/Marxist/threat replaced with Black man, and it gives a better approximation of what the speaker is really thinking.
Not that everyone who disagrees with Obama is racist, but all whom I have talked to/read the messages offer absolutely no proof or any concrete predictions other than "it'll be bad" "we'll be a third world country" (where the description of 'third world country' is "a country that elects someone named 'Obama' " and other such non-specific world ending scenarios.
Face it, an educated black man seems to threaten many in the USA.
Jeff
For me, the Democratic party is what frightens me. I don't disagree with everything they say or agree with everything the Republicans say. In fact, my problem is with the fringe on both sides which are happy to take away our rights and freedoms by degrees ("common sense" laws and Hopeless Security). I didn't like either choice but it is often choosing the one who will do the least long term damage (the lesser of two evils or the greater of two lessers?). If President Obama (or president-elect, whatever) takes the country down a centrist route that would be better than what it has sounded like he was going to do. I am a bit afraid that he really does not have the experience in government and will end up being led too much by his advisers (I would say that happened with Bush relying on Cheney/Rumsfeld and neo-con crew).
I don't know what will happen but calling anyone who did not vote for Obama a closet racist is pretty stupid(IMHO). Heck, there are probably black people who didn't think he was black enough (racism is not just white against black). Why not call anyone who didn't vote for Macain/Palin ageist and sexist while you're at it?
We can disagree politically but we can agree on one important thing: Tigers Rule!
AndyB, NH, 96 Steamer
"Try anarchy, it's better than no government at all;-)"
cosmo, wow, i dont know if i can fully agree with your statement. in some respect i see your point about some in this country 'feeling threatened" by a black guy being presedent. But a third world country - i havent heard that yet, nor would i put up with a statement like that being said around me. i dont really give a shit if a person is white/black/red/yellow/green or any other color of the spectrum, it all boils down to if they are really right for the job, and represent as close to my view as posible. in this election, for the the first time i voted third party becuse i could'nt stand either one one of these two bafoons. sad. Obama in my view does not represent the kind of change that would add any value to this country, an empty suit. bigger govornment, higher taxes, and many many empty promises that will go unfulfilled, just to get elected. and like it or not, he does lean close to socialism. i truely think in his mind he does want to do good for this country, but i dont like the way he wants to go about it. as for Senetor McCain, i dont see any thing he offers that would be to good either, with the exception of keeping our military strong. but i dissagree with many things he has done and will potentially do.
this year i voted Libertarian. wasted vote? not for me. but believe me im no fool, i fully understood that vote would go no where.
i'd like to think people (especially on this website :D ), are beyond the race issue, and look at the world with open eye's, but i know thats a foolish statement. as far as political view - well - opinions are like assholes, everyones got one, and they all stink.
Quote from: "cosmo"This election taught me two things -
1: All my friends are closet racists.
2: Almost any statement that Obama is a Socialist/Marxist/threat/etc., can have the Socialist/Marxist/threat replaced with Black man, and it gives a better approximation of what the speaker is really thinking.
Not that everyone who disagrees with Obama is racist, but all whom I have talked to/read the messages offer absolutely no proof or any concrete predictions other than "it'll be bad" "we'll be a third world country" (where the description of 'third world country' is "a country that elects someone named 'Obama' " and other such non-specific world ending scenarios.
Face it, an educated black man seems to threaten many in the USA.
Jeff
If the majority of white Americans are racist, how did Obama win? Blacks only comprise about 13% of the US population. They could not have raised the numbers required to elect Obama all on their own.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... nt/us.html (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html)
Seems that a great number of white voters chose Obama in spite of his skin color.
There were a lot of anti-obama racists out there, just search youtube. That said, they are the fringe of the fringe. I don't think they are statistically significant. As stretch said, Obama got a lot of white voters, he had to, to win.
On the other side is the marxist (and to a lesser extent, socialist) allegation. It's simply not true, unless you define marxism down to be almost meaningless. All parties, except perhaps the Libertarians, accept redistributive economic policies. The (R)'s brought us the prescription drug bill, one of the largest entitlement programs in several decades. The (D)'s may favor more redistribution, than the (R)'s, but it doesn't even compare to the pseudo-socialist tendencies in Europe.
Ultimately the Republicans (and Milton Friedman) won the argument on free markets. All but a few elected national represenatives are free marketers to some degree or another. A perfect example are the Clintons. For all the right's anger at that couple, they were very centrist on economic issues--NAFTA, Welfare to Work, among others were essentially admissions that the free market can work.
I tend to have libertarian leanings (even if the L party has a lot of whack jobs in it.) Which means I like economic liberties, but I also value social liberties. And that's my current beef with the Republicans. I think pot should be legal. I think prostitution should be legal. I think gay marriage should be legal. All of the above seem to me to be victimless "morality" crimes. (Hey open markets should extend to sex and drugs.)
The biggest problem we have now is that our political discourse pushes us towards demonizing those on the other side, when is reality, I suspect most Americans are centrists. We don't want guns banned, but we don't want gangs to be able to buy AK47s at the minimart without ID. We think abortion should be legal but discouraged. We think some sort of safety net is important, but we don't want people living on it, and abusing it.
Can't we all just get along? How about a round of kumbaya?
Geof
QuoteI tend to have libertarian leanings (even if the L party has a lot of whack jobs in it.) Which means I like economic liberties, but I also value social liberties. And that's my current beef with the Republicans. I think pot should be legal. I think prostitution should be legal. I think gay marriage should be legal. All of the above seem to me to be victimless "morality" crimes. (Hey open markets should extend to sex and drugs.)
The biggest problem we have now is that our political discourse pushes us towards demonizing those on the other side, when is reality, I suspect most Americans are centrists. We don't want guns banned, but we don't want gangs to be able to buy AK47s at the minimart without ID. We think abortion should be legal but discouraged. We think some sort of safety net is important, but we don't want people living on it, and abusing it.
Can't we all just get along? How about a round of kumbaya?
Geof
Well I agree with many things there. Drug legalization would be good (if the government is in charge of it I bet they can run it into the ground), legalized prostitution too and the tax income that comes along with that. Gay marriage being voted down in CA amazes me! In fact I can't see a good reason against it anywhere! That being said I don't think anyone in their right mind should get married, gay, straight or otherwise (I don't know what the "otherwise" would be but someone will tell me). I want my guns left alone (but you should know that fully automatic firearms, i.e. AK47, M16, not their semi automatic only cousins which look like them but do not function like them, have been under restrictions since 1934+/- and more so since 1986 and play almost no real part in day to day crime) and to not be automatically treated like a criminal for wanting to own them, shoot them, hunt with them or carry them for protection.
So in many ways I am conservative and liberal and I prefer to think my views make sense. I want to keep the nuts on both sides from running my life. The liberals decry the no fly list because it is secretive, very hard to get off of, hard to tell why people make it on there, foolishly enforced but they are willing to use it to keep people from buying guns! Hypocrisy. Dang, anarchy is looking pretty good.
What about the people in NYC (a pretty liberal place) who don't want motorcyclists to be able to use the HOV lanes even though federal law requires them to? What about the politicians that let insurance companies not cover motorcycle related injuries because they are "high risk?"
Ugh, get involved and make sure both parties know what is important to us.
Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, got to love one another right now!! (damn hippiesjavascript:emoticon(':lol:')
:lol:
Okay, maybe we should talk about Tigers and leave the politics alone?
Sorry for the long rant. I know most people won't agree with everything and will hate me for one view I have.
AndyB, NH, 96 Steamer.
Just for the record....prostitution and automatic firearms are currently legal in my state.....I sure hope the Mormons leave us alone long enough to preserve this.
QuoteOkay, maybe we should talk about Tigers and leave the politics alone?
Sorry for the long rant. I know most people won't agree with everything and will hate me for one view I have.
AndyB, NH, 96 Steamer.
This is way too much fun.
I understand that there's been a run on firearms in the last week. It seems that folks think Obama is going to make them harder to get and/or raise taxes on them. :lol: Of course they don't seem to understand how the government works - these changes require an act of Congress. Ignorant wussies. In the last 8 years we went form a budgetary surplus to the largest deficit ever seen anywhere. Even more alarming is that this ocurred in time of economic growth (Last 3 months notwithstanding). The Republicans are now the party of big government and even larger spending (I even heard a Republican strategist admit as much on "Meet the Press" or summat). Just the facts as I see 'em.
The choice in England at the moment, that is during the economic meltdown that we are in, is simple, cut taxes to get the economy moving. How it's done is what separates our parties.
Conservative= Cut taxes by making savings in other places
This makes sense until it's your fathers care home that closes to make the saving.
Labour= Cut taxes by borrowing more, the only trouble with this is sometime you have to pay it back
Liberal Democrat= Cut taxes by taxing the wealthy more and giving the rest of us a break.
The party in power is Labour so what they says goes at the moment! The Lib Dems aren't likely to get into power any time soon so their views don't count, which would you choose?
I'm not an economist, but I've heard the argument made that now is the best time for the government to borrow, because with interest rates so low, it's relatively cheap.
That said, all of the three options you lay out have bad sides, but cutting spending and services seems like a way to push the recession further. Hoover's lackluster response in 1929-1932 made the depression of that era worse (or at least allowed it to spiral down.)
Geof
Perhaps I could have been a bit clearer - all of my friends meant those whom I have known for years in a local (Chicago) motorcycle club. This is a club that used to be well-known (Jersypine Cruisers), but who has become kind of irrelevant, owing to not appealing to younger riders. Nevertheless, the opinions I cited are real, even to a WWII vet likening President-elect Obama to Adolph Hitler, when he really should have known better.
I work on the NW side of the city making deliveries (Wonder Bread); of those whom I know, only one voiced a Republican stance, a white woman who would only state she always voted republican regardless of issues.
As for me, I voted for Obama, and Kerry before him, my wish is for this country to get out of the Bush mindset and on to being a global-minded country, to better approach the future as a strong entity.
I beleive that Obama has the intelligence to understand this, and, more to the point, I believe that Obama has the intelligence to understand that it is not that he must know everything, but that he must surround himself with the best minds in their respective fields. Bush surrounded himself with those who simply told him what it was he wanted to hear, altering reality as was necessary. I do not believe that there has been another President who has had a group of advisors so willing to lie, nor do I believe that Obama will continue this disastrous trend.
As to the historical aspect of whether Republicans or Democrats are better for this countries economy, Arthur Blaustein wrote an article during the Kerry campaign that used the historical records of employment, GDP, job growth, inflation, etc., and found that in every case, the best management of this nation's economy has been the Democrats. I won't repeat an article that you can Google ( http://articles.latimes.com/2004/sep/19 ... laustein19 (http://articles.latimes.com/2004/sep/19/opinion/op-blaustein19) ).
As to the freedoms, the so called "morality" issues (drugs, prostitution, etc), I heartily agree with legalisation, as it has worked in other countries to lower crime and better serve the populace. On gun regulation, I work in Chicago, and cannot agree with the current level of freedom vs. the current level of killing. Do not give me the "protection" argument, as that has been proven many times to be fallacious. Your gun will be most likely used to kill you, or stolen and used to kill others, rather than to protect yourself. But, think of this not as a personal argument, instead, argue how regulation (or the lack) would help or hinder this country's moving forward on economic grounds. BTW, I HAVE known shopkeepers who have been killed, and it does no good to have a pistol within easy reach if your adversary comes in with a pistol already aimed at your head. No good at all.
Jeff
the article you sited forgot to mention which congress was in. the economy always will do better with dem pres. ang rep. congress. or vis-vers, but the article was obviously written with a bias for the left. as for race, you were the only one who brought it up. the ww2 vets you talked about will never change there views and there's no use in trying, so dont try and pin the race thing on only republicans. cosmo, you sound like a nice guy, and i would love to meet some day and have a beer with you, but lets face it, we all got different views. i like guns - you dont. i dont buy into socialized health care - you might. my bottom line has alway done better with a republican congress (regarless of the sitting pres.). i hope obama does well for the sake of the country, but if he doesnt, well, i guess we'll find out in 4 years.