TigerTriple.com

Tiger Time => Steamers (1993-1998 Tigers) => Topic started by: abruzzi on December 20, 2008, 09:58:31 PM

Title: high performance?
Post by: abruzzi on December 20, 2008, 09:58:31 PM
Just saw an article on mcn that said you could hot rod a steamer engine with just cams and CDI from a speed triple or daytona of similar vintage. It sounds easier, and cheaper than an entire engine swap. Anyone done this?  Any other necessary changes? (rejet the carbs?)

Geof
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Post by: JetdocX on December 21, 2008, 01:14:12 AM
By changing the cams you will probably be sacraficing low and mid-end response for a lot of top end.  

I may look into a speed triple head if I think what's going on in my valvtrain is really happening.
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Post by: Mustang on December 21, 2008, 11:20:53 AM
Quote from: "JetdocX"By changing the cams you will probably be sacraficing low and mid-end response for a lot of top end.  

I may look into a speed triple head if I think what's going on in my valvtrain is really happening.
Why , think the valves are sinking in the head ?
The 98's were rumored to have a batch of bad heads ..................but if you think valves were expensive look up the price of a bare cylinder head .........ouch  $2000 for a bare head . All of the t3 motors used the same basic head the cams and igniter were the difference .
Hell I think the carbs were prolly even the same . You won't lose a lot of bottom end though all of the triumphs had killer torque .
The sprint motor I put in andys Tigger is sweet , it's a perky little thing now !

Find a head and cams from a 95 speed triple and you will have a hot little tiger !
The igniters from a speed triple or trident will give what you want for ignition and higher redline .
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Post by: JetdocX on December 21, 2008, 05:46:10 PM
Or I buy a Honda. :lol:   Problem solved. :roll:
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Post by: abruzzi on December 22, 2008, 02:10:20 AM
Quote from: "Mustang"Find a head and cams from a 95 speed triple and you will have a hot little tiger !.

not worth trying too hard, but I added a search on ebay to email me if some cams or CDI pop up cheaply.

Geof
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Post by: JetdocX on December 29, 2008, 03:35:48 AM
I'm officially looking for a T3 cylinder head.  Intakes are back to zero clearance after 8,000 miles. :evil:  :evil:  :evil:

Any ideas where to look?  Thanks!
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Post by: Dr. Mordo on December 29, 2008, 04:42:56 AM
Dude, that doesn't make sense.  Is the problem the valves giving way or is it the head?  I almost wonder if your valve springs are not original or something bizarre like that.
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Post by: Mustang on December 29, 2008, 03:00:54 PM
Quote from: "JetdocX"I'm officially looking for a T3 cylinder head.  Intakes are back to zero clearance after 8,000 miles. :evil:  :evil:  :evil:

Any ideas where to look?  Thanks!

here's a link that lets you submit what you want to several salvage yards
http://www.motosites.com/Motorcycle_Salvage_Yards/
There has to be some salvage yards around the Reno area , we have several of them here on the east coast all within a couple hundred mile radius of the frozen wasteland .

When looking for a new/used head if it has the cams and valves in it look for one that has 2.75 -2.85 shims in it as that will be one that has prolly never been shimmed from the factory .
if you get one that is using shims near the 2.0 size you will just have more of what you got already !

Tigger #2 (a 1998) gets a 96 Tiger head in the next week or so cuz #1 intakes are fucked !

There was a rumor a long long time ago  that 1998 model tigers had a bad batch of heads .........soft seats and that new valve replacement was only a band aid , complete replacement of the head is what is needed !
No one I heard about it happening to was ever able to get triumph to pony up though because the failures happened  when the machines were out of warranty !

Look for a head from anything made in 1995to 1996 and you should be fine , I would try and find a  head that was complete with cams and make damn sure that the head you buy has the cam caps with it because they ARE NOT INTERCHANGABLE in fact they have to be in their original positions too , because they are line bored for the cams at assembly
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Post by: JetdocX on December 29, 2008, 05:18:19 PM
No salvage yards around here with Triumph parts.  There just aren't that many Triumphs around.  I can get Jap bike parts out the ying-yang.

Starting to wonder what the bike is worth in parts...... :cry:
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Post by: Mustang on December 29, 2008, 09:42:03 PM
Quote from: "JetdocX"Starting to wonder what the bike is worth in parts...... :cry:
Not as much as you would be hoping I fear ..............
what have you got other than reworked suspension that every other steamer owner already has ?
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Post by: Dr. Mordo on December 29, 2008, 09:55:16 PM
Wow, dude, that sucks.  I almost wonder if it wouldn't be cheaper just to buy a whole engine.  

As always, that seems like valuable advice from Mustang.  Should probly go in the Steamer Wisdom thread.
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Post by: JetdocX on December 30, 2008, 04:09:20 AM
Quote from: "Dr. Mordo"Wow, dude, that sucks.  I almost wonder if it wouldn't be cheaper just to buy a whole engine.  

As always, that seems like valuable advice from Mustang.  Should probly go in the Steamer Wisdom thread.

Help me find one!  I'm not having great luck there. :cry:

Mustang, thanks for the link.  I put my parts request out on two of those sites.  I hope there's someone at the other end reading it.  I kinda doubt it, though.  Glad it's winter. :wink:
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Post by: Mustang on December 30, 2008, 11:55:07 AM
Quote from: "JetdocX"
Quote from: "Dr. Mordo"Wow, dude, that sucks.  I almost wonder if it wouldn't be cheaper just to buy a whole engine.  

As always, that seems like valuable advice from Mustang.  Should probly go in the Steamer Wisdom thread.

Help me find one!  I'm not having great luck there. :cry:

Mustang, thanks for the link.  I put my parts request out on two of those sites.  I hope there's someone at the other end reading it.  I kinda doubt it, though.  Glad it's winter. :wink:

Keep looking dude they are out there , I will start searching salvage yards around here .

When we replaced the motor in Armidillo's 96 tiger , he scored a complete sprint engine off ebay , that was in an accident bike  , minus carbs and water pump , alt , and starter for only $500 and it runs like a trooper
came from a breaker/salvage in Oregon . PM armidillo he might have some info on the guy . was a sweet motor for 500 bucks .
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Post by: JetdocX on December 30, 2008, 05:18:03 PM
Any reason the Speed Triple motor won't go into the Tiger frame?  Project FrankenSteamer????

How about that 675?  Got a link to the conversion?
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Post by: Mustang on December 30, 2008, 05:50:00 PM
Quote from: "JetdocX"Any reason the Speed Triple motor won't go into the Tiger frame?  Project FrankenSteamer????

How about that 675?  Got a link to the conversion?
The early speed triple motor will bolt right in same motor  1995 , 1996 and maybe 97's once they went to the T509 speed trip I dont believe they were swappable .Sprint's up to and including 1998 trophys 900's and you could probably get a t bird or legend motor in  No way will anything else fit with out major fabrication and mad skillz  :o
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Post by: armadillo76 on December 30, 2008, 07:32:50 PM
I think the ebay guy I got the Sprint motor from was "mikesneatstuff"
I think this link to his store will work. Basically I just put searches in eBay for motors I thought would fit and this one turned out good. A couple other Tiger motors from Baxter's and somewhere else were close to the $2K range.
I am happy with the Sprint motor in my 96 Tiger except it makes me want to go faster and my fuel mileage isn't as good. Small prices to pay;-)
AndyB, NH.
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Post by: abruzzi on December 30, 2008, 09:53:46 PM
If you want a real challenge there is a 1050 speed triple motor on thespeedtriple.com.  Off of a crashed demo bike, so low miles, with ECU: $1500.  132hp.  That would almost be worth the difficulty.

Geof
Title: Replacement S/H Motors
Post by: 93TigerBill on December 30, 2008, 10:30:30 PM
May not be a silly suggestion...

With the US > Oz exchange rate being in US's favour at present, try Eurobrit and 'Liverpool Bike Wreckers' in Australia.
Both have an internet presence.

Happy & Safe New Year,
Bill
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Post by: aeronca on December 30, 2008, 11:23:32 PM
brother jd, just suggestion, give this thread look if you havent already. might be a good parts doner   http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417790 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417790)

good luck :)
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Post by: JetdocX on December 31, 2008, 12:17:41 AM
Aeronca, thanks!  PM sent.
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Post by: JetdocX on January 12, 2009, 03:05:32 AM
Update:  Baxter has a head from a Trophy, disassembled it and gave it a look over resealed the guides and reassembled.  They want a grand for it... :?

Should I try to get the cams with it?  Anyone?  It shows the Trophy making something like 96HP but it's at 9K RPM, so that's fun speed but not terribly useful.

What about the Trophy cams with the 5 degree timing advance plate?

Still looking fuitlessly for a speed triple head or engine to drop in....  :cry:
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Post by: Mustang on January 12, 2009, 03:42:48 AM
Find out what year trophy it's from , find out what the shim sizes were that were in it last , the cams are the same if they are the "green ones"
and to get the 96hp you will need the ecu or igniter as triumph calls it

For a grand $$$$ I would want to see the shim sizes be in the 2.7 range or bigger .

There was a beautiful blue 95 steamer on ebay the other day in arizona that ended and no one bid on it
only 19 k for miles and the buy it now was 2500
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-Tiger-Tiger-95-Triumph-Tiger_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ50038QQihZ006QQitemZ160307870697QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
maybe you should try getting ahold of him he had it listed twice already and no takers was 3800 origiinally
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Post by: abruzzi on January 12, 2009, 04:34:14 AM
Quote from: "Mustang"There was a beautiful blue 95 steamer on ebay the other day in arizona that ended and no one bid on it
only 19 k for miles and the buy it now was 2500
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-Tiger-Tiger-95-Triumph-Tiger_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ50038QQihZ006QQitemZ160307870697QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
maybe you should try getting ahold of him he had it listed twice already and no takers was 3800 origiinally

He's tried to sell it on advrider as well.  He's had it for sale for over a year, so may be willing to deal.

Geof
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Post by: JetdocX on January 13, 2009, 12:30:10 AM
Unfortunately I don't want another Steamer. :?

Anyone used this guy for head work?
http://www.metricmotorcycles.com/HeadWork.asp

I talked to him on the phone and it sounds like I can probably have my head repaired for a bit less than buying that used unknown condition head from Baxter.  He says the valve seats have probably case hardened and are now incompatible with the valves (hence the recession).  The seats can be replaced and the problem will go away.  Does this sound like throwing good money after bad?  I will have to keep it forever if I do this. :roll:

He says he's done many of these T3 heads.  Thanks, Triumph! :evil:
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Post by: JetdocX on January 22, 2009, 04:38:01 AM
I just pulled the head off.  It goes to FedEx in the AM then down to Houston so Andy can work his magic, hopefully the thing is economically repairable.

I think I'm going to ask him to shave a tiny bit off the head to raise the compression ratio, and maybe knock some of the casting marks off the intake and exhaust ports.  I'll defer to his expertice there, though.

I'm also thinking over having the header pipes and exhaust JetHot coated or something similar.

I used the shim tool to open a couple of the intake valves and it looks like the recession is indeed happening to the valves because it looks like they are taking on the slight curve like the last valves where they seat.

Guess I might as well check for a broken alternator drive bolt while I'm at it. :roll:

Old valve shot for reference:
(http://jetdoc.smugmug.com/photos/299851128_5pTkD-M.jpg)

The Tiger in it's winter clothing  :roll:
(http://jetdoc.smugmug.com/photos/459323437_jEddm-M.jpg)

Oh and some good news...the Uni pod filters I put on the airbox snorkles have kept the stock filter from clogging, and I've ridden a lot of dusty roads since I installed those pods.  

So consider the pod filters a cheap upgrade that might actually help your stock filter make it to the 24,000 mile stated service interval. :D
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Post by: Dr. Mordo on January 22, 2009, 07:26:43 AM
Dude, I hope this works out for you.  I guess it could be worse; it could have happened in the spring.
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Post by: Mustang on January 22, 2009, 01:09:05 PM
when you had the valve job done awhile ago , did the person who did it cut new seats or did they just throw the new intakes into the old head without doing any seat work ?
And are you sure you want to make the poor old sprag clutch work harder against a higher compression motor ?
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Post by: JetdocX on January 22, 2009, 05:13:22 PM
Quote from: "Mustang"when you had the valve job done awhile ago , did the person who did it cut new seats or did they just throw the new intakes into the old head without doing any seat work ?
And are you sure you want to make the poor old sprag clutch work harder against a higher compression motor ?

I don't know what was done with the seats last year. :evil:   I figure this guy will do it right.  

I'm not talking about bumping the compression up significantly.  I'm more interested in having some fresh metal in contact with the head gasket.  

I think the timing advance would put more stress on the starter/sprag than a minor compression bump, but who knows?

I has started raining now so the urge to ride is waning and the urge to farkle has re-emerged.  This will probably get expensive....stay tuned. :lol:
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Post by: Dr. Mordo on January 22, 2009, 06:09:02 PM
For that matter, if you haven't done the sprag I'd be tempted to change it preemptively while I had the engine out.
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Post by: JetdocX on January 22, 2009, 07:11:57 PM
The engine is still in.  Any idea what a failing sprag sounds like?  I'm going to pull the alternator tonight to check the drive for DAR.  If I need to pull the clutch pack out and go though all that for the alternator drive, I'll pull the engine and split the cases and replace the sprag preventatively.
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Post by: Mustang on January 22, 2009, 10:38:06 PM
whirr from the starter motor and klack klack klack from the sprag , while the engine no spin
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Post by: Dr. Mordo on January 22, 2009, 11:17:49 PM
If it isn't bad it'll still trun over and start but will clack occasionally as the sprag slips.
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Post by: abruzzi on January 22, 2009, 11:57:31 PM
Quote from: "Dr. Mordo"If it isn't bad it'll still trun over and start but will clack occasionally as the sprag slips.

Is that the occasional random ticking I hear when I'm riding?  Usually when I hit a bump.  Would that mean it's on its way out, or is that the usual sound?

Geof
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Post by: Mustang on January 23, 2009, 12:07:58 AM
Quote from: "JetdocX"I'm going to pull the alternator tonight to check the drive for DAR.  .
98's have the upgraded design on the alternator drive already and usually it's only the bolt on the alternator vane drive that breaks .
QuoteIf I need to pull the clutch pack out and go though all that for the alternator drive, I'll pull the engine and split the cases and replace the sprag preventatively
I bet you don't when you see what a new one costs !

Quote from: "abruzzi"Is that the occasional random ticking I hear when I'm riding? Usually when I hit a bump. Would that mean it's on its way out, or is that the usual sound?

Geof
the sprag won't make any noise unless you are pushing the starter button , but then again who knows it's a Triumph
 :ImaPoser
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Post by: JetdocX on January 23, 2009, 12:30:32 AM
Thanks, Mustang.  First good news of the day! :D
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Post by: abruzzi on January 23, 2009, 12:34:40 AM
Quote from: "Mustang"the sprag won't make any noise unless you are pushing the starter button , but then again who knows it's a Triumph
 :ImaPoser

Maybe it's the drive chain then.  Starting sounds perfectly normal.  OT, but the maual saus to replace the front chain guide when it's worn, but doesn't say how to tell when it's worn.  Any thoughts, or should I change it just cause it 13 years old?

Geof
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Post by: Mustang on January 23, 2009, 12:43:01 AM
Quote from: "abruzzi"Maybe it's the drive chain then.  Starting sounds perfectly normal.  OT, but the maual saus to replace the front chain guide when it's worn, but doesn't say how to tell when it's worn.  Any thoughts, or should I change it just cause it 13 years old?

Geof
It's time to replace it , do the lower  rub block too at the same time
Title: Attn: Abruzzi
Post by: JetdocX on January 24, 2009, 07:02:16 PM
www.triumphparts.gbr.cc (http://www.triumphparts.gbr.cc)

Sprint Manufacturing in the old country has Speed Triple cams for 120 Brittish Pounds.  

Anyone around here done this before?????? :?
Title: Re: Attn: Abruzzi
Post by: Mustang on January 24, 2009, 07:41:46 PM
Quote from: "JetdocX"www.triumphparts.gbr.cc

Sprint Manufacturing in the old country has Speed Triple cams for 120 Brittish Pounds.  

Anyone around here done this before?????? :?
I haven't done it personally but I can tell you thet you will need the igniter / ECU from a speed triple also to take full advantage of the cams .
new igniters are $739 , plus 300 for the cams ,maybe you should just buy a used 955i tiger
and you will lose some of the tigers lovely torque curve
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Post by: JetdocX on January 24, 2009, 07:52:20 PM
I don't care for the Girlies.  Plain as that.  I'll probably just put the Tiger back as-is with the fresh head and ride it, and be happy again. :D

There was a Speed Triple igniter on craigslist for $300 a few months back.  I posted it in the parts for sale section and someone here removed the link, I think.
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Post by: Mustang on January 24, 2009, 08:35:41 PM
Quote from: "JetdocX"I don't care for the Girlies.  Plain as that.  .

I can relate to that ...........Steamers are purty !
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Post by: Stretch on January 24, 2009, 09:26:04 PM
Quote from: "JetdocX"I don't care for the Girlies.  Plain as that.

(http://www.japantimes.co.jp/images/photos2006/fl20060319x1a.jpg)









You have to admit, you left yourself wide open for this.  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Stretch67/cheeky-smiley-025.gif)
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Post by: JetdocX on January 24, 2009, 09:28:44 PM
This one's going sideways quickly. :roll:

If I were an admin, that would be your avatar. :P
Title: Re: Attn: Abruzzi
Post by: abruzzi on January 24, 2009, 09:29:10 PM
Quote from: "JetdocX"www.triumphparts.gbr.cc

Sprint Manufacturing in the old country has Speed Triple cams for 120 Brittish Pounds.  

Anyone around here done this before?????? :?

Also, now is a good time to buy british stuff cause the pound is in the crapper.  According to google this morning:

1 British pound = 1.3764 U.S. dollars

That is lower than I've seen it in ten years.  A year ago it was $2 for a pound.  And it's not a strong dollar, because the Euro is at the same place it was a year ago, $1.30 per euro.

Geof
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