Ok I know there have been several postings on this, because I have been digging through them for about an hour. It seems everyone shares the consensus that aftermarket metal is the way to go, but where and what parts to buy is still a bit confusing.
Most recommendations I found were for a kit sold by Team Triumph for around $75.
Others recommend other various sites selling "Colder" brand fittings.
Things I wanted to confirm:
CLEARANCE - Has anyone had any problems with the female fitting sticking out too far compared to the old plastic one?
SIZE / Part# - LCD10004 1/4 BSPT for the female, and LCD23006 3/8" for the Male, w/ VITON rings? Are both fuel hoses the same size on the tiger?
If all of that is correct, has anyone found a better price than from here?
http://quickcouplings.net/osc/product_i ... cts_id=642 (http://quickcouplings.net/osc/product_info.php?products_id=642)
They have both sets for $42.30 (before shipping)
Good stuff. I have requested Autocad drawings of the fittings so we can see actual dimensions. For size, wouldn't you want both male and female to be 1/4"? And for the o-ring, I would accept buna-N (nitrile), which is their standard, as well as the viton you stated.
Waiting for the Email with DWG files....
Email arrived. Here's what I see:
I selected the lcd10004 female fitting with 1/4" NPT and internal shutoff. It measures .56" from the face at the base of the threads to the latch. Add whatever dimension remains after screwing it in if the face does not contact the plate. (I don't know if 1/4" NPT is the correct connection. Do you?)
Also the lcd23004 male elbow with 1/4" hose barb and internal shutoff. It measures .85" from latch to top.
Add the two dimensions and you get 1.41" total protrusion above the plate on the tank. It looks like the hose and hose clamp will require a little additional clearance.
I have not had my tank off for quite a while so I don't remember what the plastic fittings measure (yes I have the originals). Also I have no idea what space is available in addition to the space required for the original.
Can you take some measurements?
This is the thread where I got the sizes from, and the warning about them possibly not threading in all the way.
http://www.triumphrat.net/tiger-worksho ... ing-2.html (http://www.triumphrat.net/tiger-workshop/78541-broken-fuel-coupling-2.html)
QuoteThe manufacturer replacements are called Colder (www.colder.com (http://www.colder.com))
the part number for the FEMALE (screw in tank) part is:
LCD10004 BSPT - But **** this is confusing!
Be very carful screwing these in, BSPT is a Tapered thread, which means they only screw in a few threads then then start to bite creating a tight seal on both sides of the thread. This works well with the plastic ones as it creates a tighter fit to prevent fuel leaking but as plastic can deform a bit, you can screw them in further which can also cause them to snap, or over time crack and leak!
With the BSPT in metal, there will be no flex at all and you wont be able to fully screw them in without snapping them (try getting a broken metal thread out! )
The do NOT make a non tapered thread, so if the extra 5-10 mm sticking out causes the male end to be too close to the bike frame, you may need to look into a tap & die set to be able to screw the Female part in further
the MALE connector part is:
LCD23006
No problems at all with the Male end !
I can't think of any scenario where clearance would be an issue... The plastic cover fits fine when the metal ones are installed.... it's above the line of the frame (as far as I can tell) and it's not 10mm.... it's 3-5 threads. The threads are 1mm or less, so I would say the difference might be 5 mm? maybe?
the warning that comes with them isn't that they will snap, it's that you might damage them so they would not allow the other end to connect... because you would have squashed them down.... so that part seems correct. They thread in pretty far before you can feel the tapered part start to become difficult to turn. I wouldn't worry about clearance.
NOTE: I have a 2000 model - tank should be the same, but it IS the 885 motor - not sure of fuel injection differences (and I believe there are some on the 955 motor?).
They aren't really any higher than the electrical fitting for the fuel pump...
(http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=105)
(http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=106)
Sweet! Are these the correct parts, or did you buy the Team Triumph kit?
2 x LCD10004BSPT - 1/4 BSPT Valved CPC Coupling Body
2 x LCD23006V - 3/8 Hose Barb Valved Elbow CPC Coupling Insert
That's assuming the fuel lines are 3/8 hose, (V=VITON o-rings).
Oh, and is there any magic to removing / installing those particular hose clamps?
OK, I see where you got the part numbers, but in my memory the fuel hoses are smaller than 3/8". Who has their tank off to confirm? If 3/8, my gross clearance requirement from previous post will grow a little, not a problem according to walker.
I see on their website that they have color coding available, a nice feature for those of us who need two sets.
You should NOT have to pay to replace the male elbows if yours are still plastic. That's a factory recall item that is supposed to be taken care (w/ metal replacements) of by Triumph for no charge. Triumph should have taken care of the flimsy plastic female fittings under recall as well, but never did.
The only parts you should have to order are the two female fittings that screw into the tank/fuel pump plate. Get them from TeamTriumph (which is an excellent store IMHO--I got my tank fittings from them) They run about $17 each plus shipping and come with good instructions. They are an exact replacement for your female fittings, only metal. I wouldn't mess with getting something else.
The only hard part is to get the old plastic fittings out intact. Both of mine broke off leaving a nice bit of plastic inside for me to have to dig out without damaging the plate threads (not a quick nor easy task, but I took my time and got it all out).
Quote from: "DaJudge"You should NOT have to pay to replace the male elbows if yours are still plastic. That's a factory recall item that is supposed to be taken care (w/ metal replacements) of by Triumph for no charge. Triumph should have taken care of the flimsy plastic female fittings under recall as well, but never did.
Correct, but my dealer only seems to want to replace them on my 2005 if they have already failed. And the replacement OEM metal parts Triumph provides are not valved, these are. The tank fittings MUST be valved to prevent a huge mess, but on the safe side I'd like the male fittings valved the same way the OEM plastic ones were.
Quote from: "EvilBetty"Sweet! Are these the correct parts, or did you buy the Team Triumph kit?
2 x LCD10004BSPT - 1/4 BSPT Valved CPC Coupling Body
2 x LCD23006V - 3/8 Hose Barb Valved Elbow CPC Coupling Insert
That's assuming the fuel lines are 3/8 hose, (V=VITON o-rings).
Oh, and is there any magic to removing / installing those particular hose clamps?
team triumph kit. Didn't have to worry if it worked or not. Plus they were really friendly and good service (also got a service manual there too).
the hose clamps can be removed with a pair of needlenose pliers and a small screwdriver - you just have to remove the pressure, it's like a small clasp - the tension holds it together (hard to explain). The nice thing about the team triumph kit is the instructions had some good tips and walk you through all of that.
Hardest part is removing the old fittings without them breaking. One of mine came out good - the other did not (that plastic is pathetic - very brittle). Just like DaJudge said.
The only bonus I See on the team triumph male fittings- they have a similar valve system where the triumph ones are open - I always had my old ones drip fuel everywhere - these seal off when disconnected - on both ends. Kinda cool. I guess it would have new o-rings too - the recall ones they swapped in had some crappy o-rings!
Well the way i did it,if you look at the Team Triumph offering if you study the card they are on,there's a name,it's an American company,i found the UK importer and ordered them
http://www.tom-parker.co.uk/products_su ... roups=899A (http://www.tom-parker.co.uk/products_subgroups.php?v=1&recall=true&products_categories=2&products_groups=899&products_subgroups=899A)
Quote from: "EvilBetty"Quote from: "DaJudge"You should NOT have to pay to replace the male elbows if yours are still plastic. That's a factory recall item that is supposed to be taken care (w/ metal replacements) of by Triumph for no charge. Triumph should have taken care of the flimsy plastic female fittings under recall as well, but never did.
Correct, but my dealer only seems to want to replace them on my 2005 if they have already failed. And the replacement OEM metal parts Triumph provides are not valved, these are. The tank fittings MUST be valved to prevent a huge mess, but on the safe side I'd like the male fittings valved the same way the OEM plastic ones were.
I'm a bit confused (more than I normally am). Are the male elbows on your bike metal already? I believe the recall was in 2004 (for '01 thru '04 models), so they may have installed metal elbows on the '05 models at the factory. The male elbow part isn't valved, only the female fittings that are on the tank need the auto shut-off.
My bike had both male elbows done under recall, so they are both metal. All I had to do was install two of the TeamTriumph female connectors to the tank. The male recall parts snapped right into them.
Quote from: "DaJudge"Quote from: "EvilBetty"Quote from: "DaJudge"You should NOT have to pay to replace the male elbows if yours are still plastic. That's a factory recall item that is supposed to be taken care (w/ metal replacements) of by Triumph for no charge. Triumph should have taken care of the flimsy plastic female fittings under recall as well, but never did.
Correct, but my dealer only seems to want to replace them on my 2005 if they have already failed. And the replacement OEM metal parts Triumph provides are not valved, these are. The tank fittings MUST be valved to prevent a huge mess, but on the safe side I'd like the male fittings valved the same way the OEM plastic ones were.
I'm a bit confused (more than I normally am). Are the male elbows on your bike metal already? I believe the recall was in 2004 (for '01 thru '04 models), so they may have installed metal elbows on the '05 models at the factory. The male elbow part isn't valved, only the female fittings that are on the tank need the auto shut-off.
My bike had both male elbows done under recall, so they are both metal. All I had to do was install two of the TeamTriumph female connectors to the tank. The male recall parts snapped right into them.
Mine is the same,and i did the same.
Mine is an 2005 and has the plastic valved male fittings. The metal Triumph fittings are non-valved.
Has anyone confirmed the fuel line size? I've seen 3/8" on other threads but I've also seen some say 1/4". It sure looks bigger than 1/4" to me, but I don't have the most seasoned eye when it comes to such things.
Apparently you can't get the Viton rings from QuickCouplers or Colder unless you special order in quantities over 100, with a $75 special fee. :x
BUT... they come with BUNA-N rings...
QuoteNITRILE OR BUNA N (NBR) Typical Trade Names:
* Chemigum Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co.
* Paracril Uniroyal
* Hyvcar Goodrich Chemical Co.
* Krynac Polysar, Ltd.
* Ny Syn Copolymer Rubber & Chem. Corp.
Buna N or Nitrile, is a copolymer of butadiene and acrylonitrile. Acrylonitrile content is varied in commercial products from 18% to 48%. As the nitrile content increases, resistance to petroleum base oils and hydrocarbon fuels increases, but low temperature flexibility decreases. Due to its excellent resistance to petroleum products, and its ability to be compounded for service over a temperature range of -65 to + 275 degrees F (- 54 to +135 degrees C), Nitrile is the most widely used etastomer in the seal industry today. Most military rubber specifications for fuel and oil resistant MS and AN 0-rings require nitrile base compounds. It should be mentioned, however, that to obtain good resistance to low temperature with nitrile compounding, it is almost always necessary to sacrifice some high temperature fuel and oil resistance. Nitrile compounds are superior to most elastomers with regard to compression set or cold flow, tear and abrasion resistance. Inherently, they do possess good resistance to ozone, sunlight or weather but this can be substantially improved through compounding. However, since ozone and weather resistance are not always built in, seals from nitrile bases should not be stored near electric motors or other equipment which may generate ozone, or in direct sunlight.
Nitrile Is Recommended for:
* General purpose sealing.
* Petroleum oils and fluids.
* Cold Water.
* Silicone greases and oils
* Di-ester base lubricants (MIL-L-7808).
* Ethylene glycol base fluids (Hydrolubes)
Nitrile is not recommended for:
* Halogenated hydrocarbons (carbon tetrachloride, trichloroethylene)
* Nitro hydrocarbons (nitrobenzene, aniline)
* Phosphate ester hydraulic fluids (Skydrol, Fyrquel, Pydraul).
* Ketones (MEK, acetone)
* Strong Acids Ozone
* Automotive brake fluid.
So they should be fine, right?
I called the dealer and they say the lines are 10mm. I broke out the micrometer and measured the plastic exposed from the fuel line to be 10.98mm.
So 10mm = 0.3937".
3/8" = 0.375".
Is that right? Close enough?
Anyone mind confirming any of this? :oops:
Anyone? :cry:
The Buna N o rings are fine , the o rings that come on the fittings will be fine also
and I don't reccomend using inch size orings on a metric application , you will be asking for trouble
McMaster Carr has metric orings
I just heard back from TeamTriumph on the sizes of the parts in their kit.
QuoteYes 1/4" female and 3/8" male with viton o'rings.
Other than the different brand o-rings, they sound the same to me.
Well I went ahead and ordered them... I'm getting antsy to get this bike put back together.
I'll let you know how the do.
I got the new fittings today... The old ones came out easily except for the true lack of wrench clearance with the release tab in the way...
I went to thread the new ones but noticed lots of old sealant crudded up in the threads. I broke out the acetone and q-tips but that didn't put a dent in it.
Any recommended method for cleaning out the threads?
Did any of you who installed metal fittings use a Teflon tape or Loctite 577 or something else to seal the new parts?
To remove that hardened gunk, I would use a thread tap matching the original hole. I think Teflon tape is a good idea.
Can you do that with tapered threads?
I was going to see if I could find a brass brush similar to a bottle nipple brush to clean it up, but I have to go hunting after work for such an animal.
I don't believe Teflon tape would stand up against fuel. You're not supposed to use it on propane and natural gas fittings for that reason.
you can also remove the release tab - press the little plunger all the way in, the metal tab slides out - careful the plunger and the spring don't go flying away on you... makes installing easy - you can use a regular socket at that point.
I think the set I had recommended teflon tape. I used a small amount of it without problem. I also cleaned the threads out really good - didn't have a tap, used some dental pics instead.
Funny you should now mention that! :)
I was looking at the pin here in the office... suddenly sure that pin could be depressed and the clip removed...
Thankfully there were 3 people in my office when I tried it. The pin went sailing... 2 people eyeballed it. The sprint landed on my desk, then the spring behind the clip rolled across the floor on our lovely alternating random pattern carpet.
I have it back together now, I think I'll work inside a zip lock back when I go to do this at home!
I have a pick set... I'll give that a try in combination with a brass brush if I can find one on the way home that will fit.
Anyone have a guess as to what these should be torqued to?
I'm seeing a lot of advise against using white Teflon tape for fuel fittings.
Yellow appears to be used a lot but is intended for natural gas. Apparently there is a red/pink Teflon tape for use in fuel fittings. I've seen yellow at home depot but never seen pink/red.
I saw a lot of other posts of people using Yamabond/Hondabond to seal fuel fittings.
I have a whole tube of ThreeBond 1194 at home. Since the old sealant looks remarkably like the sealant that was all over the stator grommet in my alternator cover, I'm wondering if using the ThreeBond would not be a good choice?
QuoteThreeBond 1194 is a semidrying liquid gasket whose major component is special synthetic rubber. After it is applied and dried, it will form a rubber-like elastic body. Since it excels in padding property, it shows a high sealing effect on bonded surfaces that have poor flatness and large clearance. In addition, it has excellent resistance to water, oil and gasoline.
they're tapered - they'll tighten up enough that any small amount of teflon tape won't let anything leak through the threads anyway.. Different than a straight fitting which requires some kind of additional sealant.
I was following the instructions, and have used it in the past on holly flange type fuel fittings without problems - granted, flange type fittings seal differently (keep that in mind). My experience differs from a lot of opinions (which is good enough for me). Of course, the day it comes back to haunt me, that'll be my new experience to go by....
Use your own judgement, of course - whatever works and makes you comfortable with a job well done! :D Oh yeah - the ones from team triumph come with tape already on there. The best option is probably a better thread sealant designed for fuel lines - I know permatex makes a nice one, available in a tube.
For torque: I think the instructions said to thread them in, and leave a certain amount of thread exposed - you don't bottom them out. I don't remember the amount - I THINK it was 3/8" - no closer than that? You tighten down and leave 3/8"? I want to say it was 4 threads. Maybe 5. You'll know because it will start to get difficult to turn. Did not give a torque setting. The plastic ones appeared to be bottomed out from the factory.
The instructions for a tapered fitting said that tightening them ALL the way down might crush them and make the fitting a different diameter (crack, leak, other types of bad scenarios were mentioned).
Great info, thanks!
Are the clamps on the male fittings Stepless Ear Clamps? How do you get them off?
Quote from: "EvilBetty"Great info, thanks!
Are the clamps on the male fittings Stepless Ear Clamps? How do you get them off?
I jammed a slotted screwdriver in there and popped them off. Replaced those clamps with worm gear hose clamps.
They are not stepless ear clamps. I'm not sure what they are, but they are reusable.
I used a pair of nippers and a small flat blade to squeeze and then unlatch the clamp.
Unfortunately that's when I noticed that the male fittings are two different sizes on the barbed side. Looks like the bottom one is 3/8", and the top one is 1/4". I'm going to call QuickCouplings Monday and see what can be done.
Here are pics of the clamps and fittings.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/Jaredcm1/Tiger/DSCN0752.jpg) (http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/Jaredcm1/Tiger/DSCN0751.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/Jaredcm1/Tiger/DSCN0749.jpg) (http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/Jaredcm1/Tiger/DSCN0748.jpg)
Found them, sort of...
Norma COBRA clamps...
http://82.145.133.139/kunden/norma/ttw. ... RA__en.pdf (http://82.145.133.139/kunden/norma/ttw.nsf/res/NORMACLAMP_COBRA__en.pdf/$file/NORMACLAMP_COBRA__en.pdf)
These things are pretty neat (I'm a geek).
I'm torn betwen trying to find two more of the larger clamp size and use a 3/8" hose from that end of the fuel rail, or go through the fun of getting the 3/8" CPC replaced with a 1/4" CPC fitting.
QuickCouplings.net (http://www.quickcouplings.net) are awesome. I called them up and explained that I had bought two 3/8" fittings and needed a 1/4" to replace one. I was willing to pay return shipping and pay a restocking fee if needed. These great people grabbed a 1/4" off the shelf and mailed it out to me free of charge... and it was here in two days! LOVE companies with this kind of customer service!
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/Jaredcm1/Tiger/DSCN0754.jpg)
I didn't pull the hose off to check, but the supply fitting on the fuel rail looks like it might have a stepped fitting, meaning it's 1/4" on the tip and 3/8" further up, but that's a guess. If anyone has a chance to look next time they have the tank off I'd be curious what another set of eyes has to say on the matter.
sorry moved to new post.
Quote from: "EvilBetty"sorry moved to new post.
http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,5701 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,5701)
Maybe I missed it, but does anybody know of a place online to source the Viton/Buna-A o-rings for the male connections without special ordering a hundred of them?!
I've got GRG (Gas Resistant Grease) on mine right now which is preventing them from leaking for the time being. But they need replace badly as they have both got slices out of them.
I'd check in the HELP section of your auto parts store first. Then your Triumph / BMW / Ducati dealerships.
If you really need them online,
http://www.triumph-online.co.uk/triumph ... 1611-p.asp (http://www.triumph-online.co.uk/triumph-viton-fuel-line-coupling-o-rings-1xpair-1611-p.asp)
http://www.worldoftriumph.com/product.p ... 1_6__viton (http://www.worldoftriumph.com/product.php/31833/o_ring_id10_1_x_1_6__viton)
Thanks for the great thread. After a fuel line leak, I decided to replace the fittings with the Team Triumph kit along with new fuel injector line after reviewing this thread. I never had the tank off before, so that took longer figuring that out than doing the upgrades and longer still cause I left out the front tank grommet on final assembly. Thanks for the tips and photos that made the job go well.
Glad to help, but you should take your tank off more often... just for fun. :)
I got to the point I could have mine off in under 5 minutes, and back on in not much longer. I had to tear it down in a service bay because the tech who was doing the head bearing adjustment didn't think he had time to take the tank off.
Hi, i just ordered a replacement connector for my bike. Will that come with the plastic part and spring that was inside the old one cause I cant find the spring and the little plastic part inside is now broken? Thanks