This past fall, I experienced a charging system failure in the middle of a trip. Since I wasn't able to get the parts within the vacation time we had, I had to rent a U-Haul van to bring the bike home. Trip ended. I replaced the charging system (twice, see-sawing the two parts until I finally wised up and replaced them as a pair) and performed the usual 24,000 mile service. I've put about 700 miles on the bike since then.
Over the past few rides, I have noticed that my voltmeter was slow to come up to normal voltage after idling in traffic. But after a few seconds, it always managed to slowly climb back up to 14.5, so I dismissed the behavior as simply being the different characteristics of the Rick's Motorsports Electrics charging system, versus the Triumph system it replaced.
Riding to work this morning with the heated jacket, gloves, and grips on, I accelerated up an on-ramp, and my Datel voltmeter was displaying 11.8 volts, and not increasing. Oh, fuck me! Not again!
I had another three miles to ride, and the voltage never picked back up. I parked the bike in the truck bay of the fire station, and walked inside, with that kicked-in-the-gut deflated feeling.
I do my level best to not let my personal problems interfere with my attitude at work. We're all great friends here at our house... we celebrate each others' birthdays, fish, ride, and hunt together, so during the course of breakfast, I did tell of my ride to work. The Brothers were sympathetic. They know how much I love riding in general, and my Tiger specifically, and that this was the third charging system I've had on the bike since October.
I have a few trips coming up this year, and with the charging system going out again, I don't trust the Tiger to not break down a thousand miles from home. As much as I love the bike, I have no use for a bike that I can't count on... I'm going to have to install yet another charging system and then sell the Tiger.
By reputation, the most reliable ADV bike is the Suzuki V-Strom, so I started calling around looking for one. I got on a couple Strom websites and got to researching my next bike.
I simply felt depressed and nearly sick all day, at the thought of being forced to get rid of my beloved Tiger. I couldn't even look at it when I walked past it today.
Finally at about 9:00 this evening, I went out to the truck bay to have a conversation with my Tiger. The first thing I did was to check the fuse in the Sasquatch Voltage Fix, but it was okay. Damn... it must be yet another burned-out stator / RR. While explaining my requirement of having a reliable bike, and promising to clean her up and wax her (she's covered with mud) if she would only cooperate, I started fiddling with the stator-to-RR wire, and found a curious anomoly... the inside of the plastic connector was charred.
"What the...?"
I finally got the connector apart, and found that the push-on spade terminals must not have been of the highest quality, because evidently the connections were loose enough to cause a great deal of electrical resistance, creating heat. And the hotter they got, the worse the continuity, until it finally got to the point that current couldn't pass at all. Only the connector was affected... a half-inch away from the connector, the wires were completely undamaged.
Hope springs eternal. Just to see what would happen, I cut off the burned connectors, stripped the wires, and twisted them together as though they were coupled by the connectors.
I turned the bike on and thumbed the starter.
14.7 Volts!!!
(http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/images/applause.gif)
All is well.
This really took me by surprise, as the stator and RR were both brand-new when I installed them in November, and I even went so far as to smear on a dab of dielectric grease to prevent this sort of thing. I recall German saying a similar thing happened to him, at the end of his 'Bike Dead In Highway' thread.
So tomorrow, I'm going to clean those stripped wires really well, and solder them together. To hell with loose connections. I'm going to solder the Sasquatch Voltage Fix in to the RR wiring also.
So, if you're feeling a bit bored this winter, go out and visit your Tiger, unplug the stator and Regulator / Rectifier (both ends), and use a pair of needle-nose pliers to squeeze the rolled edges of the female terminals inside the plastic connectors, in order to make them grasp the male terminal more positively.
I'm going to bed now. I have to detail my bike tomorrow.
Man, what a day.
Getting rid of the Tiger? Nah. Suzuki's aren't so bad. Here's a winter pic to help the spirits.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Stretch67/P1180041.jpg)
Venice, FL a couple of weeks ago.
for the most part, it's alway's something simple. glad you were able to assess, and fix easily. it sure is funny about tigers, just when you start feeling let down by them, and threaten to buy a wee or vstrom, they straighten right up :lol: . when mine was still shutting down on me in the middle of the highway, after hunreds-o-dollars later, i threatened mine with the same fate, and KAPOW, turned out to be a plugged tank vent, and no suzuki for me. good job stretch :thumbsup
Stretch, NO! You can't buy a strom, I know Tiggers can be, how do I put this.......a PITA, but you would miss the bike too much to swap for a V
Glad you found the problem and it appears to be minor, hopefully once you have done your soldering you will get a lot of trouble free miles out of the Tiger and wont have to resort to the Vstrom. :D
My trouble is, my previous bike was a Honda Magna, with the 750 V-four, and was 100% dead-ass reliable in the 20,000 miles I had on it in 14 years. With the exception of winter-time battery deaths, I never had a single mechanical or electrical breakdown, and the bike never left me stranded.
Now, for some reason, I have it in my mind that (non-HD) bikes should be trouble-free until the end of time, and that when something does occur to my beloved Tiger, I take it as a personal affront. Silly, I know.
The Strom was (and still is) my second choice, based on it's capabilities (very similar to a Tiger's) and it's long-earned reputation for reliability. But they just don't excite me.
I was feeling quite depressed yesterday when I assumed that the only way I could have an extremely reliable bike was to trade in my Tiger. Lord knows I don't want to. I'm gleefully happy that it didn't come to that.
(http://www.liquorsnob.com/archives/pictures/clicking-heels-thumb.jpg)
I still think she's just pissed at me because I left mud on her for a month. A wash, wax, and detail is the plan for this afternoon. I always keep my promises.
Us seasoned (OLD) Brit bike riders call it 'character' :ImaPoser
which the V strom is lacking and the Honda certainly doesn't stir one's loins .
Did it look like this?
(http://cbxtc6.smugmug.com/photos/471239665_LTPJP-M.jpg)
I feel your pain, brother. I, too, went 'round and round with this. In the end, I may, or may not have fixed it. I traded it in...
You could always convert your Tiger to diesel power and have no dependencies on electrical witchcraft :D
Apart from the starter - well you could get a Pellham spring starter; works like clockwork - wind it up with a pull cord and then let it rip.
I do have a diesel engined Enfield with a kick starter, 2 winters ago the loom shorted under the tank and left me in the dark with the motor running fine.
I arrived home looking like 'torchy the battery boy' with my toolkit torch gaffa taped to the side of my crash helmet. The bike now carries a bicycle flashing red LED mounted on the rear just in case!
Compression ignition = the 'Dark Side' of motorcycling
Diesel
Quote from: "cbxtc6"Did it look like this?
(http://cbxtc6.smugmug.com/photos/471239665_LTPJP-M.jpg)
I feel your pain, brother. I, too, went 'round and round with this. In the end, I may, or may not have fixed it. I traded it in...
Yeppers, that's the animal.
Quote from: "Diesel Dave"You could always convert your Tiger to diesel power and have no dependencies on electrical witchcraft :D
Apart from the starter - well you could get a Pellham spring starter; works like clockwork - wind it up with a pull cord and then let it rip.
I do have a diesel engined Enfield with a kick starter, 2 winters ago the loom shorted under the tank and left me in the dark with the motor running fine.
I arrived home looking like 'torchy the battery boy' with my toolkit torch gaffa taped to the side of my crash helmet. The bike now carries a bicycle flashing red LED mounted on the rear just in case!
Compression ignition = the 'Dark Side' of motorcycling
Diesel
So your oil burner has no generator or alternator to recharge the battery and power accessories?
Good catch, Stretch. You wouldn't like the Strom. My brothers and I rented one for a week and didn't like it for a variety of reasons, one of them was that it is very short. Not the one for you.
Back to your episode, you thought the burned connector was poor quality, but are you sure? Was the problem possibly a side effect of the Sasquatch voltage fix? I expect to "do the fix" some day and just have to ask.
QuoteSo your oil burner has no generator or alternator to recharge the battery and power accessories?
Ah you have me there, as it has both :oops:- just doesn't depend on it for the engine to run. :D
You can legally run a bike in the UK without lights and get a daytime MOT.
I even paid extra for the flywheel alternator in place of the belt driven car type the usually comes with the engine.
How does the bike shut down? A mechanical fuel shut-off valve, or is it electronic that shuts off the fuel when you trip the kill switch?
That would be sweet if it were entirely mechanical, not depending on flowing electrons to keep your bike running. I'd still have a voltmeter installed on the dash to keep track of the goings-on in the Electrical Room. Otherwise, a fellow could run lights, heated jacket, and other accessories and lose his battery without knowing it... until he tried to restart it after a fuel / food / WC stop.
I would imagine that the compression on your engine would preclude the possibility of roll-starting your bike. Have you tried it? Just curious.
There is a mechanical fuel shut off, connected to the redundant choke lever on the bars.
There is an optional electrical shut off valve and it has a mechanical bypass should the volts fail, but this was extra complication I didn't need.
Compression is over 22:1 and there's no decompressor as there is on the little single diesels so no chance whatsoever of a bump start - that's why I considered the clockwork starter:
http://www.springstarter.com/index.htm (http://www.springstarter.com/index.htm)
You can kick start a 400cc 18:1 compression motor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_U-JltnGig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_U-JltnGig)
So if I could just find a set of approved gas lights and perhaps fit a compressor and some air horns - I could go electric free!
Cheers
Dave
Quote from: "2004Tiger"Good catch, Stretch. You wouldn't like the Strom. My brothers and I rented one for a week and didn't like it for a variety of reasons, one of them was that it is very short. Not the one for you.
Back to your episode, you thought the burned connector was poor quality, but are you sure? Was the problem possibly a side effect of the Sasquatch voltage fix? I expect to "do the fix" some day and just have to ask.
I rented a Wee in Alaska a couple years ago. It was sturdy, but I was glad to get home to my Tiger.
I don't think the Sasquatch Voltage Fix had anything to do with it, as the connector in question was between the stator and regulator / rectifier. The Sasquatch Fix is on the other side of the RR, between it and the battery.
All the Sasquatch Fix does is to use a few inches of large-gauge wire to bypass a few feet of small-gauge wire between the regulator and the battery, cutting down on voltage-robbing resistance.
The stator puts out quite a bit of Alternating Current at much higher voltage. The Rectifier converts the Alternating Current to Direct Current, and the Regulator cuts the voltage down to levels that won't cook the battery.
If the stator output was excessive, and the connector had no internal resistance, the wires between the stator and RR would have cooked along it's entire length. But the wiring was fine... only the connector got hot.
This afternoon, I soldered every single connection between the stator and Sasquatch Fix and ran the bike for fifteen minutes or so. The wires were all nice and cool. If there were a problem resulting in excessive output, it would have popped the in-line fuse in the Positive wire of the Sasquatch Fix.
Geeze Stretch, I'm gone out of town for a few days and I catch this thread!! I almost shed a tear and then I almost made you an offer for your bike. :roll:
Glad you worked it out or so it looks like you did. :thumbsup
Stretch, a couple of points: first I know that let-down feeling well - my Honda Blackbird was rock solid reliable for 48k miles, then the bubble burst with a spate of minor electrical niggles. Mostly low tension and easy to fix but shattering from the confidence point of view. Next, I had a stator failure - like the Tiger it's a known problem on early FI models and it took out the regulator, but I think it was caused by... yep you guessed..... burnt out spade connectors just like yours. I think that poor contact at this point is the source of many of these failures, although the Honda dealer says its bound to happen eventually due to generating 30 amps or so in a closed case with no vent or cooling. One high-resistance connector overworks one phase of the stator, you get an imbalance and that does for the regulator. (Only an amateur point of view, open for discussion). Glad you seem to have sorted it anyway. :?
I put about thirty miles on it today running some errands, and it made 14.5 - 14.6 VDC above 3000 rpm. Jam up.
All the charging system wires were normal temperature (same as everything else under there, with the cases, radiator and exhaust convecting their heat on everything.) I rode with the left side panel removed, allowing air to flow to the RR. It did run a bit cooler, naturally.
I have a 2,000+ mile trip coming up in a couple weeks, and I have decided to go ahead and swap in my spare stator and RR, just to be on the safe side. As sensitive as an electronic regulator is to overloading, I don't want to take a chance. I will cut off all the connectors and solder the connections together to build a one-piece harness that includes the stator, RR, and Sasquatch Fix.
I'm also going to run an additional wire parallel with each existing wire... for example, take one of the three stator-to-RR wires... leaving the wire in place and uncut, remove a half-inch of insulation from the stator end near the rubber plug, and then do the same near the rubber plug on the RR end. Then run a new wire of the same size parallel with the existing wire, connecting each end to the bare spots you made in the existing wire, and soldering the connections. Do this with every single wire in the charging system, eliminating any overload in the small existing wires, and in doing so eliminating the heat caused by resistance.
Read here: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/inde ... 29975&st=0 (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29975&st=0)
I'm also going to move the RR to the outside of the bike, to get it into the breeze. I read somewhere that for every 10˚C reduction in an electronic component's temperature, it's life span doubles. Sign me up. More on that later.