So I would like to try to stiffen the front end of my bike up.
I did a search and found some threads that were a couple of years old talking about progressive springs and racetech valve emulators.
Are these a good way to go? Does anybody make a progressive spring for a steamer still?
I went to the racetech site, and couldn't figure out which ones would work with my bike.
Progressive springs are BS. Once you sit on the bike, the progressive part is now compressed into a straight-rate spring.
And progressive springs and emulators are not compatible.
The first question is: How much $$ would you like to blow on your ancient bike?
Maybe first try a heavier weight fork oil. It's cheap and relatively easy to do. Everything after that gets expensive.
I don't know about the steamers, but RaceTech Gold Valve Emulators work great on my 01 cat. It took a while to install and adjust, but now that it's done, the front feels great.
I can't say the same about the progressive springs I had. I could not really tell the difference between them and the OEM.
One other solution is to add spacers at the top of the springs. From other posts, it sounds like adding about an inch of spacer will make a big difference.
Quote from: "JetdocX"Progressive springs are BS. Once you sit on the bike, the progressive part is now compressed into a straight-rate spring.
And progressive springs and emulators are not compatible.
The first question is: How much $$ would you like to blow on your ancient bike?
Maybe first try a heavier weight fork oil. It's cheap and relatively easy to do. Everything after that gets expensive.
Come on, it's not that ancient, 12 years old. Plus, it's only got 20k on it. I'd like to ride it for another 50k at least. I'm definitely willing to spend a couple hundred bucks to improve the handling a bit.
I just need some advice and some links to help me do a little shopping.
Quote from: "Mr. Jetmoto"Come on, it's not that ancient, 12 years old. Plus, it's only got 20k on it. I'd like to ride it for another 50k at least. I'm definitely willing to spend a couple hundred bucks to improve the handling a bit.
I just need some advice and some links to help me do a little shopping.
OK, I sent my forks out to a suspension shop to install the emulators, .9kg/mm springs and reseal.
I also have a penske rear shock set up to my specs provided by the same shop.
Unfortunately it cost quite a bit more than a couple hundred bucks. After the oil change you just get into money.
Now my suspension is worth more than the bike, but I smile everytime I go for a ride. :D
Quote from: "JetdocX"Quote from: "Mr. Jetmoto"Come on, it's not that ancient, 12 years old. Plus, it's only got 20k on it. I'd like to ride it for another 50k at least. I'm definitely willing to spend a couple hundred bucks to improve the handling a bit.
I just need some advice and some links to help me do a little shopping.
OK, I sent my forks out to a suspension shop to install the emulators, .9kg/mm springs and reseal.
I also have a penske rear shock set up to my specs provided by the same shop.
Unfortunately it cost quite a bit more than a couple hundred bucks. After the oil change you just get into money.
Now my suspension is worth more than the bike, but I smile everytime I go for a ride. :D
I've already got a works shock on it, I just want a set of stiffer springs, and possibly emulators. The springs shouldn't be more than a hundred bucks or so right? Not sure what the emulators cost.
$169.95 for the emulators:
http://www.amotostuff.com/Merchant2/mer ... FEGV-S4301 (http://www.amotostuff.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?store_code=AML&screen=PROD&product_code=FEGV-S4301)
Springs, I'd guess the same. I'd like to do both to mine as well, only I have more basic requirements to deal with first (tires, wheel bearings, electronic switches, chain, sprockets, center stands.)
Geof
I had the triumph progressive springs in it when I bought the bike and they were worthless (marshmellow soft) even with the 3 1/2" spacer the DPO had on top of them. Installed the emulators under the progressive spring with 1 turn tighter setting and 3/4" spacer and they are a great match to the rear that Sasquatch built for me. I am also running synthetic ATF in the front, it is about 7.5 wt. I think.
I think the emulators are .65k / 43mm. Paid $145 for them.
Quote from: "abruzzi"$169.95 for the emulators:
http://www.amotostuff.com/Merchant2/mer ... FEGV-S4301 (http://www.amotostuff.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?store_code=AML&screen=PROD&product_code=FEGV-S4301)
Springs, I'd guess the same. I'd like to do both to mine as well, only I have more basic requirements to deal with first (tires, wheel bearings, electronic switches, chain, sprockets, center stands.)
Geof
Sweet, thanks man, that's just what I was looking for. Any clues as to where to find some good stiff springies? OR do would I even really benefit from stiffer springs if I installed the emulators? I am pretty much a nooby at suspension stuff, don't know much about it. I have found that it is a bit more complicated than I originally thought.
Match your spring rate to your weight and riding style. .90KG/mm is a bit too stiff for me but I suffer through it anyways. Call Racetech or better yet, Google to find a local suspension shop, they can find or make you springs. FWIW, the springs in mine are 37 mm by 370mm but YMMV.
Emulators control the fluid flow through the fork. Better compression and rebound damping than a simple metering pin and oriface that is in there now. Really, IMO this is one of the best bang for the buck items you can install in your forks.
Traxxion Dynamics is the shop that did the work on mine and everytime I lose a squid-ridden sportbike on a twisty road, it makes me smile!
I paid 149.95 for the emulators but I think I got a 10% break because they were doing the install work.
Quote from: "JetdocX"Match your spring rate to your weight and riding style. .90KG/mm is a bit too stiff for me but I suffer through it anyways. Call Racetech or better yet, Google to find a local suspension shop, they can find or make you springs. FWIW, the springs in mine are 37 mm by 370mm but YMMV.
Emulators control the fluid flow through the fork. Better compression and rebound damping than a simple metering pin and oriface that is in there now. Really, IMO this is one of the best bang for the buck items you can install in your forks.
Traxxion Dynamics is the shop that did the work on mine and everytime I lose a squid-ridden sportbike on a twisty road, it makes me smile!
I paid 149.95 for the emulators but I think I got a 10% break because they were doing the install work.
If you don't mind me asking, how much do you weigh. I tip the scales at around 265-270 pounds. So I'll prolly need something fairly stiff.
Do you know if there are options besides going the custom spring route? Does anybody sell a spring that you can just put in the fork? Seems like it may be a bit cheaper that way. I don't need to be race track tuned, I kind of just want to get away from the big cadillac feeling that you get when riding, and the kamakaze nose dive while breaking.
I did find this page:
http://www.racetech.com/evalving/Spring ... bikeid=495 (http://www.racetech.com/evalving/SpringRateCalculation/dirtspring.asp?brand=Triumph&yr=95-01&ml=Tiger%20900&formuse=form1&SpringType=Fork&bikeid=495)
which suggests you should be using: 1.057 kg/mm which is over twice stock (.46 kg/mm). It suggests .97 kg/mm for me.
Now, where to buy...there are no suspension shops around there.
Geof
Quote from: "Mr. Jetmoto"I don't need to be race track tuned, I kind of just want to get away from the big cadillac feeling that you get when riding, and the kamakaze nose dive while breaking.
that's what some heavier wt. oil like 15 wt . and some spacers for preload on top of the springs will accomplish very nicely for a lot less $$$ than springs and emulators .
I have a traxxion suspended tiger and don't like it for off road stuff because it is too stiff .
Hey thanks man. Jeez I prolly should have been able to find that. I had a hard time navigating their site for some reason. That's awesome. Now I know what I need at least. Looks like you can't just go and buy a set of stiff springs off the shelf for the old steamers anymore huh?
I'm gonna call them and see what's up.
Quote from: "Mustang"Quote from: "Mr. Jetmoto"I don't need to be race track tuned, I kind of just want to get away from the big cadillac feeling that you get when riding, and the kamakaze nose dive while breaking.
that's what some heavier wt. oil like 15 wt . and some spacers for preload on top of the springs will accomplish very nicely for a lot less $$$ than springs and emulators .
I have a traxxion suspended tiger and don't like it for off road stuff because it is too stiff .
AHa! I was wondering when the guru would weigh in on this subject! Now I am conflicted as for what to do. I like the idea of emulators and new springs, but I also like the idea of cheap!
I don't really ride dirt with my tiger anymore because I've got a KLR, which is way cheaper to fall over on, and way easier to find parts and plastics for. Not to mention, way easier to pick up.
My Tiger has pretty much become my touring bike, maybe I would use it for a few miles of forest service if there was a good place to go to, like a camping spot or a lake or something.
Just out of curiosity, where would I look for spacers if they are cheap, I could just try them out and see how I like them first, before spending the relatively big bucks on springs and emulators.
Can I use spacers and emulators together without buying new springs or am I missing the whole point?
The aftermarket for this bike is extremely small. :cry:
More preload will affect ride height as well as stiffness and do nothing for compression damping.
Thicker oil will definitely slow things down, but I still don't think you get the same thing as emulators. 8)
Edit: I'm 210 lbs, Mr Jetmoto. And I ride like an idiot. My ride is very harsh ofroad also, but I just man through it. :lol:
Quote from: "JetdocX"The aftermarket for this bike is extremely small. :cry:
More preload will affect ride height as well as stiffness and do nothing for compression damping.
Thicker oil will definitely slow things down, but I still don't think you get the same thing as emulators. 8)
Edit: I'm 210 lbs, Mr Jetmoto. And I ride like an idiot. My ride is very harsh ofroad also, but I just man through it. :lol:
So can I use spacers and emulators together? Will heavy weight oil and emulators be compatible? I am totally clueless.
Oh I called Racetech and they didn't answer. They must be busy, I left them a message.
spacers can be as simple as a piece of pvc pipe that is the same diameter as the springs and cut to whatever length you want . for starters try a pc cut to about an 1inch length , and replace the oil with some 15 wt , you may be pleasantly surprised .
One thing you should keep in mind is that this is a long travel fork so some brake dive is inevitable .
If your bike is not a 98 then you have a kayaba fork which is really really mushy compared to the showa forks on a 98 , and the showas were/are mush .
Quote from: "Mustang"spacers can be as simple as a piece of pvc pipe that is the same diameter as the springs and cut to whatever length you want . for starters try a pc cut to about an 1inch length , and replace the oil with some 15 wt , you may be pleasantly surprised .
One thing you should keep in mind is that this is a long travel fork so some brake dive is inevitable .
If your bike is not a 98 then you have a kayaba fork which is really really mushy compared to the showa forks on a 98 , and the showas were/are mush .
Damn PVC! Schedule 40 I hope at least!
That is so low tech and cheap that I am definitely going to try it before I do anything else! As a landscape contractor I've got tons of scrap lying around. I bet 1 inch sched 40 works eh?
So wait, :shock: do I just set it on top of the spring or does it go on the bottom? How much you want to be me I totally screw this up? I've got the service manual for it so that should help with disassembly and reasemmbly, but I bet it doesn't say anything about putting PVC pipe in my fork tubes!
Oh yeah, and mines a '96 so it's got the kayaba, the brake dive doesn't bother me so much as the bounce does on corners and stuff. I also need to set my works shock up better once I get this done.
The spacer goes on the top of the washer that is on top of the spring.
Bummer is there are no drains in the fork tubes so they have to be taken off the bike to get the old fluid out. Unless you have one of the inversion racks and you can just pull the caps and flip the bike. :lol:
good luck and cut yourself several different lengths of spacers as once you have the new fluid in, it is simle to change the spacers to come up with something you like.
the kayaba forks have drain plugs , at least my 95 does .
Quote from: "Mustang"the kayaba forks have drain plugs , at least my 95 does .
Yeah mine have drain plugs. I can't believe some models don't have drain plugs. Another fine example of British engineering. It's a good thing that these bikes are fun as hell to ride, Because they don't have much going for them besides that. Well, they look pretty cool too.
So I spent yesterday fiddling with my works shock and doing test rides. I've got the back end set up pretty nicely now, I haven't picked up any fork oil yet, so I'll prolly try the spacers sometime later this week.