My 98 Streamer has started to sputter when I accelerate from a stopped position. Where should I start looking?
Here are some additional facts:
The sputter (chug chug chug) only lasts a few seconds/feet. If I give it some gas, I can get past the sputter. It does not return at higher RPMs and steady speeds.
I can replicate it while moving by letting go of the gas and slowing down below 3k RPM and then accelerating again.
It continues even after the bike has warmed up for 10-20 minutes.
Its been raining here in California, but not very cold.
The bike has 9K miles on it. Major service was performed at 6K
sounds like an ignition coil going south on you. ask me (or any steamer owner how we know :D ) look there first. replace with nology coils. good luck and keep us posted.
it's probably coils , my 98 did the same thing , exact syptoms . Nology's are your friend .You can buy them online here , much less $$$$ than the junk triumph coils made by gill
http://www.nologyhotwires.com/
you want to order the single outlet coils part # 152-001-060T PFC-06S
you need three of them at 70 bucks each
your tiger will thank you !
Thank you Mustang and Aeronca,
Things have become so bad for us that Nology is advertising the Truimph coils on their front page. Must be a big money maker for them.
Do I need to do any more diagnostics?
My Haynes manual calls them Ignition HT coils and tells me that the primary resistance should be 0.63 ohms +/- 10%, and secondary should be 10.5 K-ohms +/- 10%. Will this tell me anything useful? Anything else about the science and symptoms of bad coils that anyone would care to share?
For those doing a fresh search on the topic, here is an old thread where Mustang and Jetdocx talk about coils, and a picture of the new Nology coils mounted.
http://tigertriple.com/forum/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,3925&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)
They will usually ohm out fine ..............so that test tells you nothing .
The problem is they can't take a compression load like you are doing when feeding it the gas from under 3k rpm , the spark is just too weak , eventually the one that is causing the problem right now will give up and you will lose fire to that cylinder completely .
The Gill coils made in england break down with age for some reason , even though yours only have 9 k miles on them , my 98 took a hike at 35k but I have a 95 steamer that is still running the original coils , they are PVL coils made in Germany , guess who makes the nology coils ? Nology's are rebranded PVL's !
Resist the urge to screw with the carbs , it is the coils causing your problem .
The nology's will give a smoother idle and crisper throttle , you will notice the difference the minute you start it up with the new coils :D
I went through a lot of headaches thinking I had a jetting issue on my 98 and it was the carbs. I however went a different route. Other Triumph models use a coil that sits right on the plug. Its no bigger than a plug boot. They are used on the sportier models (like TT600) with higher compression so its a hotter spark. Also you eliminate the HT plug wires which will also wear out eventually too. A set of used on-the-plug coils can be had on ebay for about $30 (for a set of 4 which gives you a spare). You just have to run extensions wires (12 volt) from the where the coils are now mouted to the plugs, and some miniture female spade connectors from Radio Shack.
And the old ones will indeed ohm out just fine like the others said. When the coils start to go they are temp sensitive, so the bike can run fine cold and then sputter when its warmed up. Also in cold weather they will take longer to heat up and sputter. All this can really screw with diagnosis. Asl me how I know :-( BTW, mine got flakey at 3000 miles so it aint just the mileage.
Good luck either way you go.
here's my saga http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/viewto ... highlight= (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,4159&highlight=). i went through the same thing as your going through. the part that pissed me off the most is that when i got a new coil i brought in to work one night where i have access to very ,very high end and expencive electronic test equiptment(a good airline perk), and the secondary part of the coil was not ohming out right according to the book , and would fail every time on the bike(brand new from triumph). you cant tell that to the shop that sold you the piece of shit. they just look at you and say "it passed for us on da bench, and you aint no moto-cyco mekanik". i ended up eating the cost of a coil which hangs in my garage as a reminder. NOLOGY is the way to go.imho.
I went down Nightrunner's route, a set of 4 x direct fire coils on Ebay costs half as much as a single nology coil, leaves you with a spare and no HT leads to fail ;-). Careful though, there are two types, only one is small enough to fit the steamer head, both types will prob be on Ebay so you can compare.
BTW, this was to correct exactly the problem you've been having, although my bike had/has a whole host of other problems thanks to previous owner abuse.
Cheers
H
Quote from: "RobH"I went down Nightrunner's route, a set of 4 x direct fire coils on Ebay costs half as much as a single nology coil, leaves you with a spare and no HT leads to fail ;-). Careful though, there are two types, only one is small enough to fit the steamer head, both types will prob be on Ebay so you can compare.
BTW, this was to correct exactly the problem you've been having, although my bike had/has a whole host of other problems thanks to previous owner abuse.
Cheers
H
Yup, get the skinny ones. If they have a flat top and mounting ears, they will not fit. I found this out the hard way.
Hi !
I'm a new owner of a 1998 streamer and I'm suspecting bad Gill coils on my cat.
Is the good direct fire coils looks like those ?
Thanks !
I recently swapped the coils from my s3 from my tiger,when I noticed a very slight 'miss' at low revs. The swap cured the issue,but strangely didn't notice it when I ran the suspect set on the tiger? Bike has run fine for a couple of months...until the Wales meet. With SinTiger riding pillion,bike started to hesitate under acceleration,but cleared as the revs increased. The extra 'load' obviously too much for one coil? Strangely though,they are PVL'S! So they can fail eventually. I may go the 'stick' route?
Same here,
spluttery at low revs.
Went the TT600 coil route - been sweet for 4 years now.
Quote from: threepot on July 10, 2015, 08:59:04 PM
With SinTiger riding pillion,bike started to hesitate under acceleration,but cleared as the revs increased.
Spit it out TP, do I need to go on a diet :icon_scratch:
I'm getting similar, been resisting the temptation to go with Nology's but I think it's time to bite the bullet. Have to do a bit of digging as I seem to remember seeing Nology HT wires for the T400 somewhere :icon_study:
:augie
:icon_redface:
I believe its the pre 2000 TT600 sticks which fit.
Also... If Nology make the PVL coils, then wouldn't it be cheaper to get PVL's? or am I missing something?
Quote from: stfontaine on July 10, 2015, 07:36:41 PM
Is the good direct fire coils looks like those ?
Yes, that's what mine look like.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on July 10, 2015, 11:00:13 PM
Have to do a bit of digging as I seem to remember seeing Nology HT wires for the T400 somewhere :icon_study:
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/parts/100_2000.jpg)
http://store.newlevelmotorsports.com/nohospplwi19.html
Quote from: JayDub on July 11, 2015, 12:04:02 PM
Also... If Nology make the PVL coils, then wouldn't it be cheaper to get PVL's? or am I missing something?
Good question JD, Nology £75 each, PVL £55 each.
I'm a stick coil convert myself, you don't really hear of the later models (once they went away from the modular concept) suffering coil problems so that's really why I went that route, plus they only cost me about £40 for the set off ebay and a few quid at Maplins for some twin wire and spade connectors to extend the wiring.
Quote from: GavD on July 13, 2015, 09:06:24 PM
Good question JD, Nology £75 each, PVL £55 each.
I'm a stick coil convert myself, you don't really hear of the later models (once they went away from the modular concept) suffering coil problems so that's really why I went that route, plus they only cost me about £40 for the set off ebay and a few quid at Maplins for some twin wire and spade connectors to extend the wiring.
it's just the opposite here in the USA
new nology's $69 usd each
pvl's = $85 to $100 each
:^_^
Us Brit's do like our labels... Total fashion victims :icon_mrgreen:
Just a heads up - the Nology Hotwires are not custom lengths, so you will have to be a bit creative with their routing to avoid any kinks. Mine work great though:
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-JLkhzCk/0/X2/20140613_173009-X2.jpg)
Quote from: ssevy on July 13, 2015, 11:20:27 PM
Just a heads up - the Nology Hotwires are not custom lengths, so you will have to be a bit creative with their routing to avoid any kinks. Mine work great though:
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-JLkhzCk/0/X2/20140613_173009-X2.jpg)
Would you guys stop helping me spend money ! I have a wife and three teenage daughters I can't afford to browse this site as well.
I do have the Nology coils on mine did you notice any difference with the new wires ?
Naw, it's just all my bike gear is red and black, and the factory wires were yellow. These match my other gear better :icon_razz:
Quote from: ssevy on July 14, 2015, 02:42:06 AM
Naw, it's just all my bike gear is red and black, and the factory wires were yellow. These match my other gear better :icon_razz:
Talk about fashion victim :pimp I seem to remember you talking about red jackets before :icon_rolleyes: Yellow from the factory :icon_scratch:
Thanks Mustang :notworthy
I had a long chat with a very helpful chap at Magnecor who has made up custom leads for a T400 Trophy before and knew all the ins and outs of it. He has had experience with Gill coil failures but said PVL's almost never fail and while he wasn't very complimentary about Nology "Hot Wires" and a few other "miracle" makes, he did think their coils were good though.
He was of the opinion that, if you are going to have a problem with the HT ignition, then you will notice it at high RPM's first, where the load on the coils is higher due to the increased cyl pressures, then throughout the rev range as it get's worse and that fits with my experience but my experience is with non CDI ignitions.
Me no understandy Sin.
How does cylinder pressure have an effect on coils? :^_^
When the pressure and air fuel density is high, the resistance is also high. A high resistance means a higher reluctance for the spark to jump. Like any power equation, mechanical, fluid, electrical, all the same. Increasing resistance increases heat in the coil between each charge cycle which has to be dissipated. A hard ask when your stuck up under a plastic tank.
Ah.. understood, thanks.
I'd give some credit to the reduced time for the conductive wire to cool between sparks as a result of higher rpms.
Most conductors lose capacity with heat build up. Hence the need for a component to have a range of acceptable specs.
If any of the system is deteriorated with age, corrosion, insulating capacity it works everything harder. Meaning less likely to have the right energy at the right time.
Sin mentions it starts first at higher rpms and then is noticeable throughout the rpm range. If high cylinder pressure from rpms is the culprit why would it do it later in other rpm ranges?
Heat
Over time the coils fail. They are a wear item. They are a mix of a shorted out battery and a tire.
Make sure your coils are getting the right juice to work like they need to as part of your process.
Not Steamer, but I can add that Chris Canning and I both noticed the difference when switching to a MOSFET reg/rec as it gives 14.7v from very little revs to the top end thus giving the ECU and coil sticks their best chance to provide a fat spark.
Also worth noting is that I spotted a dying coil stick on Chris's bike because the dwell angle (viewed on TuneECU) for the centre stick was a few milliseconds behind the other two. Chris replaced it and immediately felt the difference. If you have the ability to read dwell angle you might find similar. I have an oscilloscope that could do it; perhaps there's another way???