Okay, so I am finally biting the bullet and preparing for the Sasquatch voltage fix and additional accessory wiring., but I'm hung up on a couple of points:
1.) Wire gauge- the largest gauge wire I could find with the in-line fuse was 10ga. If my "Sasquatch Splice" is made from 2 14ga. wires into 1 10ga. wire will this do the trick?
Also, is 10ga. enough to feed the accessory wiring block (where I plan to power heated vest, GPS, and perhaps 2 35w lights in the future)
2.) Accessory wiring- All of my accessories are complete with their own in-line fuses, and I don't care if the power is always live. So rather than installing a "Junction Block" wired to a fuse box (much less a switched fuse box) couldn't I get away with just mounting a Junction block and running positive and negative leads for the accessories into this?
There is probably something I'm missing here, and this is a terrible idea, but I thought I would run it past the more savvy types!
I have not been able to track down the type of junction block (like pictured in Stretch's accessory wiring post) which allows all the positive terminals to be fed by 1 incoming positive lead, so any help with that would also be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Guys!
The in line fuses for your accessories will protect those accessories, but won't guard against faults in any wiring you install to feed them. So to keep it short, your junction block should be protected by an in line fuse rated for the maximum load the juction block will take. That way, if you, for instance, trapped the main live feedwire to your junction block and shorted it to earth the fuse would blow. Without a fuse, you've got a nice little fire going :shock:
Someone with more knowledge than me will be along to advise on the wire...
On the face of it 10guage would be ok in place of a couple of 14guage wires...BUT... all depends on how much power you are trying to draw thru the wire, which depends upon the power needed for your Vest????
A simple wire guide site is: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm (http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm)
Your cable should be rated to at least double the current you think you are going to use, and as already said by others... Use a fuse in the line.
(It's the fuse that keeps the smoke in the wires, and you don't want to let the smoke out... because its simply too hard to put back!!!)
It's rare, but available as New Old Stock from Leyland parts distributors.
(http://www3.telus.net/bc_triumph_registry/images/Smokekit2.jpg)
Quote from: "M.T."1.) Wire gauge- the largest gauge wire I could find with the in-line fuse was 10ga. If my "Sasquatch Splice" is made from 2 14ga. wires into 1 10ga. wire will this do the trick?
Also, is 10ga. enough to feed the accessory wiring block (where I plan to power heated vest, GPS, and perhaps 2 35w lights in the future)
2 14ga wires can carry more load than 1 10ga wire. That is exactly the setup I used.
The 10ga inline fuse holder should be set up with a maximum 35A fuse. At 13V, that is > 350Watts of power. The stator can only put out 350W so the 10ga wire should be enough.
Quote from: "M.T."2.) Accessory wiring- All of my accessories are complete with their own in-line fuses, and I don't care if the power is always live. So rather than installing a "Junction Block" wired to a fuse box (much less a switched fuse box) couldn't I get away with just mounting a Junction block and running positive and negative leads for the accessories into this?
There is probably something I'm missing here, and this is a terrible idea, but I thought I would run it past the more savvy types!
Thanks Guys!
As stated before, you want to fuse the junction box to the maximum current you expect all of the circuits of the junction box to draw. So you don't need individual fuses at the box, just a main one going in to the box.
As far as no switching the junction box, that may not be a good idea. Unless you are religious about turning off all of your accessories, or the accessories have internal relays to cut power when the bike is shut off, then at some point you WILL come back to a dead battery. That is why people put a relay to power the junction box powered by a switched source sch as the tail light.
Given all of the accessories you are looking to add. I would HIGHLY recommend a voltmeter. I just ordered a kit from ebay which saved me $20 over the datel but I now have to build my own sealed enclosure for it. Unless you are really handy and have stuff just lying around, get the datel.
Have fun!
Quote from: "mrazekan"Given all of the accessories you are looking to add. I would HIGHLY recommend a voltmeter. I just ordered a kit from ebay which saved me $20 over the datel but I now have to build my own sealed enclosure for it. Unless you are really handy and have stuff just lying around, get the datel.
Agreed. You should put in a Datel. See where I mounted mine below. Looks factory and isn't glowing in my line of sight at night.
(http://matttys.smugmug.com/photos/501225699_XWF6N-L.jpg)
Thanks you guys, that is exactly the kind of info I was hoping for.
Looks like the voltage fix portion of this project is on track- I am waiting as we speak for the voltage meter, and won't do any of the wiring until it arrives. I have this urge to be able to measure the voltage as it stands now versus after the voltage fix is complete.
I'll report back!
Stretch... Thanks for this lead. Do they have the "Wiring Harness Smoke Injectors" to go with that stuff... these really are difficult to find.
My local ace hardware store has multimeters for $5. You could also head over to HF:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=90899 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90899)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/r ... res.taf#WA (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/retail_stores.taf#WA)
Multiumeters are incredibly useful. I always pack one on longer trips. They also help with the car and with things around the house. You could use it to measure the AC coming from the stator if you ever have to (I hope you don't.)
If you have all of the equipment, I would get started. Go ahead and get the voltage fix in. If you want to test the pre-fix condition, then plug the RR output back into the stock harness. Same with the accessory block. Just disconnect it. The Datel meter could easily be put on afterwords.
Remember that you are always looking to measure the voltage across the battery terminals. If that gets below ~13.1V, then you are no longer charging the battery. You could sustain between 12V & 13.1V for a few minutes, but not very much longer than that. Below 12V, something is wrong.
Have fun! I know I truly enjoy working on my bike. If you are ever in Vancouver (the southern one), need help, or just want to catch a beer, let me know.
_Hugo
hortiz(the at symbol)email dot com
Quick question, I have been reading all of the topics on the voltage fixes and stator problems.
I have a 1999 tiger 885, after looking at the pictures for the voltage fix it seems to be a little different. I'm also experiencing some of the same issues of starting out cold with voltage readings 13+ after some time aprox 1/2 hr of riding the voltage drops well below 13.
The bike is new to me so I don't have any history for long rides in the heat or what I could be looking at this summer?
Any advice would be helpful
The voltage fix illustrated here does not apply to 1999 - early 2001 models with the 885i engines. They have a completely different charging system than that found on 2001-06 models with 955i engines.
As for your voltage, what does it actually read at idle with the bike hot? It ought to be at least 12.5 VDC. At cruising speed, the voltage ought to be above 13.5 or so.
Okay Mrazekan- you talked me in to it!
After picking up a voltage meter this evening, I feel way more informed about the way the Tiger runs. After running the bike around for half hour or so to get it nice and warm I started testing the voltage outputs. I tested both at idle and at 4000 rpm (which is a pretty good approximation of cruising)
With nothing powered up but the bikes own systems I measured 12.8 volts at idle and 13.75 volts at cruise. Pretty standard I'm thinking.
With the heated grips (on high) and vest (on high) I get 12.05 volts at idle and 12.6 volts at cruise.
That is not a lot of room to spare- those accessories really pull some juice!
I'm really looking forward to performing the voltage fix to see if I can free up a little reserve power. I'll let you know how it goes...
Quote from: "M.T."With the heated grips (on high) and vest (on high) I get 12.05 volts at idle and 12.6 volts at cruise.
You are correct in saying 4k RPM is equivalent to cruising speed. I think that is about 60MPH with stock gearing.
12.6V? YIKES. I'm pretty sure you are pulling more power than the charging system is outputting. The reading across the terminals needs to be >13V to make sure you are not discharging the battery. The Voltage fix will free up a few watts, but it may not be enough to prevent the battery from loosing charge over time. This is especially so since who knows if the fan was running when you did your tests. The fan draws quite a bit of power BTW.
Get the sasquatch fix done. Establish your baseline voltages with all of the accessories off and the headlights on low beam. Get your idle and 4k measurements. Make sure to note weather the fan was on or off.
Throw on your high beams. Take the two measurements again.
Turn your grips on high. Take the two measurements again.
In both of the previous cases, the voltages should not be too different from the baseline voltages.
Now add your heated vest on high. Take the two measurements again. The voltage fix MAY have freed up enough watts to maintain the 4k measurement above 13V. If not, then you are past the capacity of your charging system.
Turn off your heated grips. Take the two measurements again.
You are starting to see a pattern here right?
Turn your grips back on, turn your high beams down to low. Take the two measurements again. Always remembering to note the state of the fan.
Having the onboard voltmeter will allow you to do this experiment on the fly. You can continuously balance your load to make sure the battery is receiving charge (>13.1V.)
I would not worry about momentary dips in the voltage below 13V. These can be caused by the draw of the fan. Idling the bike will also cause this. These dips are what the battery is for. When the excess load is taken off, as in the case of the fan, or when the engine revs up, as in the case of idle, power will become available to recharge the battery to it's full potential.
The problem is if you are running on the edge. If you are in stop and go traffic, the fan can kick on and off quite regularly. The periods when the fan is off may not be long enough to charge the battery back to the state it was in before the fan turned on initially. Over time, this will slowly drain your battery. So give it some margin. I would not feel comfortable on a long trip running it at 13V continuously.
Have fun and good luck!
ARRGHH... really good point about the fan- I was just starting to feel pretty smug, but now back to foolish. During all of that testing I'm just not sure if and/or when the fan was running.
Thanks for the tip. Back to the drawing board!
M.T.
On top of Mrazekans good list, do you know how many watts you vest is rated at..... there should be a label somewhere. And where/how are you supplying power for this?
Thanks so much for the help here-
I've tested the Sasquatch fix for a few days now and I'm really pleased! It took me a couple of trips to the hardware store and a few stupid mistakes, but it was worth it.
I think we should go back and specify that the connectors that go to the R/R plug need to be fully insulated! I attached 4 standard metal female connectors (with the metal exposed) and somehow did not anticipate that the positive and negative would touch inside the connector plug. Let me assure you they do! Lucky fuses are cheap...
With that little misstep out of the way, the bike is now working great and returning approx. 14.5 - 14.75 volts at cruise. This is at least a 1.0 volt improvement, and lets me run all of my powered gear without fear of the battery dying.
Dash mounted voltmeter on the way, and probably the relayed fuse box too...
Quote from: "matttys"Quote from: "mrazekan"Given all of the accessories you are looking to add. I would HIGHLY recommend a voltmeter. I just ordered a kit from ebay which saved me $20 over the datel but I now have to build my own sealed enclosure for it. Unless you are really handy and have stuff just lying around, get the datel.
Agreed. You should put in a Datel. See where I mounted mine below. Looks factory and isn't glowing in my line of sight at night.
(http://matttys.smugmug.com/photos/501225699_XWF6N-L.jpg)
HI Matttys,
Couldn't help but notice what a great looking Girly you have. (mines the same).
Great spot for the Datel I was just about to give up on installing mine there as I thought it would be to tight. Guess I'll take the instrument cluster off and have at it. Thanks for the pic. Where and how did you decide to hook up the meter? Direct to the battery? Switched, un-switched? Any tips for cutting into a perfectly good instrument panel?
Thanks Matty. Nice job.
Cheers
GBC
Thank you for the compliments. I used a Dremel/Roto Zip to make a rough cut for the Datel then used a flat file to get the hole just big enough to jam the meter into. I didn't want to make it too big as the meter has very small flats on the front that I did not want to have push though. The meter comes with the metal bracket clamp that slides over the back of the meter, that's how I secured it to the plastic.
I hooked my meter into the switched fuse block. If you don't want to chop wires and do all that junk you could easily wire it straight to the battery. I would probably put a fuse in line just to make sure you don't over load the meter. Some small amp fuse should be fine, maybe even 5 amp or so.
Let me know if you need any other help - good luck!
QuoteI would probably put a fuse in line just to make sure you don't over load the meter. Some small amp fuse should be fine, maybe even 5 amp or so.
Good people. The meter is only measuring Voltage... therefore it's not using much power. A 5amp fuse is overkill here.
Firstly a word on fuses. The primary role of a fuse is to protect the wiring (its associated with) from carryin too much current. For this reason we always, repeat always, put the fuse closest to the source of the power.... the battery. Secondly, the fuse size should be determined by the size of the wiring, so what ever you are running off any circuit, it's the size of the wire that sets the maximum value of the fuse. Fuses should be rated only to about 50% of the cables current rating.
Why? Firstly fuse ratings are not absolute... a 10A fuse won't blow when a 10a spike goes thru it. There will have to be 10a for a longer period before it blows. (OK it maybe a few seconds or longer depending upon lotsa things but by then the damage may be done).
The fuse protects the wiring because as current increases thru a wire (of any given size) the wire heats up, this causes a voltage drop in the wire and the way to overcome a voltage drop is to supply more current... more current means more heat... etc, etc
There should have been some sort of data sheet with you meter, if it says use a 500mA fuse then do that. The manufacturer has set this value because it means that the gear willl be able to get enough power to operate correctly. If for some reason an internal problem in the gear occurs (failure caused by vibrations for example), you would want the inline fuse to blow rather than the add on display to burn out and perhaps case other external damage because it was fused incorrectly.
Quote from: "oxnsox"A 5amp fuse is overkill here.
Oh sure, just go and catch my bs :wink: That's just what was preinstalled on my Centech fuse panel and I left it in when I wired up the Datel :D