Hello all, I need some advice. I just completed renewing my fork seals, brake and clutch fluids on my '98. I put everything back together and took her for a spin and she runs like crap. Ran fine before the repairs.
I left on a two week vacation trip with almost no gas left in the tank. I returned to find fork oil all over the garage floor so that started the repairs. This initially led me to believe that it was bad fuel or moisture in the fuel tank (in spite of the 100+ temps and low humidity conditions) so I filled the tank and added about 1/3 can of Sea Foam. I rode about 10 miles to work this a.m. and it still runs really bad. At low speeds it sounds like it's running on 2 cylinders. At 3-4k RPM it surges off and on and smooths out over 50mph. I am really leaning towards an electrical issue although I replaced the plug wires last winter. I am wondering if I could've mangled something under the front fairing during reassembly but I wouldn't know where to start looking. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Well, the short answer is....take all the plastic and tank off and start with the easy stuff. Replace the plugs. Inspect the old ones to maybe get a clue as to the misbehaving cylinder.
Drain the float bowls. Install an inline filter on the fuel line.
Consider replacing the coils with aftermarket.
That's how I usually start when mine acts up.
Consider removing the screens on the fuel cock.
Thanks man. My concern is in dealing with the carbs. I had some issues before that started with me thinking it was carbs and ended up being valve adjustments. In any case my memory was that the carbs are pretty inaccessible w/o pulling them all the way out of the bike. I'd rather not go there. Is there an easy way to do the "Drain the float bowls. Install an inline filter on the fuel line" step or does it require pulling them out?
I have the Kehhien carbs. Draining the float bowl is easy with everything installed. The fuel line will be a little harder. I removed the tank to install mine, but I was already there changing the plugs.
I really doubt that valves are your problem this time.
Sorry, nope, I didn't mean to imply that I was suspecting valves. Just that I almost came to pulling the carbs on the previous occasion and was somewhat daunted by the task. I'll pull out the Haynes when I get home and give it a go. My other concern is something blocking or clogging the filter and it sounds like the carbs need to be pulled to even access it. What a brilliant feat of English engineering that is!
It's the ugly side of the "Steamer Experience".
Nine tools required to remove the rear wheel. That is a feat of engineering right there. :roll:
It aint the carbs it's the coils just bite the bullet and buy 3 nology coils for 200 bucks ..............
Quote from: "Mustang"It aint the carbs it's the coils just bite the bullet and buy 3 nology coils for 200 bucks ..............
I was talking to Trev at Sprint Manufacturing recently and he informed me that the coils he stocks are made by 'Nology' but have the LT and HT connections that match the existing Steamer fittings so are a straight swap, he told me that the coils 'Nology' normally supply have different fittings and you have to patch on the old leads, is that your experience?
I am just about to order a set myself.
The one's on my tigger were plug and play ..........stock wires worked just fine
Quote from: "Mustang"The one's on my tigger were plug and play ..........stock wires worked just fine
Mine, too.
The coils on my 98 started acting up when I brought out of winter storage. Ran fine the previous fall. It behaves the same way, sputtered at low RPM and ran OK at high RPM. Wouldn't idle at all. And I wasted a lot of time thinking it was fuel related. If you cant afford the Nologys there is also the TT600 coil swap detailed in several threads here. $30-40 for a set of 4 on ebay.
Hmm, you all have got me real concerned now. I was one step away from pulling the carbs off and just checked in to see if I could find nightrunners or mustangs steps for removal of clutch and throttle cables. Is there any way to be sure it's coils before buying new ones on suspicion?
Oh and it idles fine, more or less, but runs like crap at low rpm and surges at about 1/4 throttle turn.
Ok, now I am thinking this happened for a reason. I managed to pull the carbs out and was very proud of myself following Mustang's suggestions for cable removal. While inspecting the carb parts I noticed the throttle cable is worn through about right in the middle of the cable. It is worn all the way through the insulation and part way through the metal shielding. I was planning on a solo 6-hour ride next weekend (Boise to Lewiston) and the thought of what might have happened along the way is still giving me the willies! :shock:
I also found crud in the fuel filter and the in-tank reserve filter. I am following the suggestion by Red Menace to reroute the filter and I will reassemble as soon as the dealer gets my new cable.
Quote from: "RiderX"I noticed the throttle cable is worn through about right in the middle of the cable. It is worn all the way through the insulation and part way through the metal shielding.
That's got me thinking too, added to my list to check, thanks :icon_salut
I should add that I think everyone who as replaced the coils had already gone through and cleaned the carbs and the problem persisted.
As for the cables, Mustang's idea sounds good but I use a towel as a brace/pad and just leave the throttle cable connected. The carbs rest nicely on the Hepco and Becker engine guards with a little help. The choke cable is easy to remove. I think I disconnected both cables one time and that was more trouble than it was worth.
On the filter I added an in-line filter before the carbs, but unlike others I left the stock filter in as a back up.
Let us know what you find.
I put everything back together last night. I added an in line filter just below the tank valve. I put gas back in and it took a while for the carbs to fill back up and then it started up. I am afraid to say that it still sounds like it did before all the work although I haven't ridden it yet.
I suppose my next question is where to find replacement coils. I looked at Nology and they are a non-retailing manufacturer. I tried a number of the links to retailers on their website and couldn't find a listing for their coils. Any suggestions?
Try here:
http://www.nologyhotwires.com/
Do we steamer owners need the single outlet or dual outlet? I'm assuming single, right?
Geof
Correct, single outlet. It is the number of spark plug wires that plug into each coil and in our case it is one coil per plug and why we need three coils at $69 each total of $210. Argh. I got this while placing my order on http://www.nologyhotwires.com/ (http://www.nologyhotwires.com/)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z43/rdphelp/HPIM5841-1.jpg)
Manifold
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z43/rdphelp/HPIM5856-1.jpg)
Worn speedo cable
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z43/rdphelp/HPIM5839-1.jpg)
Triple carb
Quote from: "RiderX"I suppose my next question is where to find replacement coils. I looked at Nology and they are a non-retailing manufacturer. I tried a number of the links to retailers on their website and couldn't find a listing for their coils. Any suggestions?
I have the same problem with a 96 Tiger. I tested the three coils with two different meters (after messing with the carbs, et al) and I find that all three coils are basically at 0.0 primary resistance (?!?!?! manual says this should be .63 ohms +/- 10%). The secondary resistance on one meter said 7-8,000 on all three coils (manual says this should be something over 10,000). The other meter said 6-6,500 ohms on all three.
Does it make sense all three are consistently off like this?
Nonetheless, I ordered the nology coils hoping this would fix it. Crossing my fingers.
Good luck Colonel, let us know how it works out. Changing them is a snap.
I replaced the coils. Helped a little bit, but it turns out that my real problem was the carburetors. I decided that carb rebuilding was too advanced for me (I can tackle anything up to "3 wrenches" of difficulty in my Haynes manual. This was 4). so I had the dealer do it. $700.
This was what the work order says:
REPLACED:
3 needle jet 0-6
3 piston springs
3 diaphragm
3 float chamber seals
3 o-rings for the vaccum pipe
3 needles SE56-3
3 other o-rings
1 new airbox
1 new carb-to-head rubber
2 new clips for the carb-to-head rubber
3 new DP8EA-9 Spark plugs
Now the thing runs like the clappers. There are a few annoying things wrong with it still. The temperature gauge is not working. The rear brake light doesn't light when the front brake is engaged. (rear brake lights it, though) and the rear shock is shot. So I have my winter cut out for me.
There is a bit of a dead spot in the power band still. It's subtle but I notice it because my 96 Sprint doesn't have this. It hits at around 4k, feels like the bike is backing off a bit. Not very pronounced, but it's there for about 500 rpms. This part of the power band on my Sprint is where I feel like I'm on the space shuttle so it's really odd considering how close these two siblings are in engineering. Also my Sprint starts up instantly with almost no choke after 10 seconds or so. The Tiger seems much more cold-blooded and really needs to warm up before I can back off the choke / idle. Is that normal?
you need to increase the size of the main jets ............also raising the needles up 1 notch helps a lot also
pilot air screws like to be at about 2 turns to 2 1/2 turns
cured the dead spot on my tiger with Keihin carbs mikunis are similar
with the mikunis she will be a GAS HOG .
Mustang is right. Additionally though, at least in my case, the screws were already 2-1/4 to 2-1/2 turns out from the factory. [Note that 3 turns is the end of the range. Further will have no effect] I have the 98 with Kiehins. Went up a jet size on the pilots and set the screws to about 1-1/4 turns. Cold starts are now easy, low end response improved, and gas mileage went up. Most bikes are lean from the factory but I think the steamers are extra lean. Sorry to hear about the $700 bill. We probably could have walked you through it here. Many of us here have gone through the carbs.
On the coils, mine ohmed (if that's a word) out to factory specs but still caused problems. After all I have read on this issue and my own experience, I tell people to just either get the nologys or do the TT600 on-the-plug coild swap, even if their coils are still good.
Next time I will try to sort the carbs myself. I've never done it before and the Haynes manual looked a little scary (many, many steps)
I replaced the Tiger coils with the Nology coils. I think my ohmmeter is just too crude to give me a better reading. Either that or I'm a pinhead. (Okay, who are we kidding, I'm a pinhead.)
But I have Mikuni carbs on both the Sprint and the Tiger. In my tests I'm getting about 37 mg on the Tiger. I could check the valve clearances.
My 96 sprint got about 40 mpg but has dropped down to to about the same as the Tiger in the last 15k. I probably need to clean the air-box and replace the plugs on the Sprint and maybe adjust the valves. The color of the exhaust is a dark grey, not black, so its probably mixing OK.
Can I get Kehin carbs? I've heard they're better than the Mikunis anyway.
I bought a set of keihin carbs from a late model Tiger from ebay, and fitted them to my '95 with no adjustments. Works fine. HOWEVER, don't forget the airbox/carb rubbers (not inlet/carb rubber) are different between Mikunis and Keihins, so you need to source either a late airbox and get the fittings, or buy some correct ones, if available separately.
Runs cleaner with the Keihins than with the Mikunis