Can anyone tell me if they have ordered a stator from Electrosport and how it performs. I am in need of a new stator and I am interested in this product.
I had one, and shitcanned it. The Electrosports don't come with the terminals and connector installed... you have to measure, cut, crimp, and install your own connector. And they don't supply the rubber grommet at all... you have to seal it yourself with silicone.
I was very satisfied with the stator from Rick's Motorsports Electrics. Theirs is a plug-n-play replacement. Excellent customer service, as well.
http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/ (http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/)
Or sending your Triumph stator to Custom Rewind to have it rebuilt.
http://www.customrewind.com/ (http://www.customrewind.com/)
Be sure to replace your Regulator / Rectifier while you're at it, as the Stator and R/R usually damage each other when one bites the dust.
Thanks Stretch, I ordered both this morning.
I called my dealer yesterday to find out what the OEM parts cost and was I shocked at the price they quoted, $400 something for the stator and $300 something for the R/R. How can Rick's and Electrosport sell theirs for so much less? I hope Rick's is up to the task.
Quote from: "MikeBenzon"I called my dealer yesterday to find out what the OEM parts cost and was I shocked at the price they quoted, $400 something for the stator and $300 something for the R/R. How can Rick's and Electrosport sell theirs for so much less? I hope Rick's is up to the task.
same reason the wheel bearings cost 50-60 bucks apiece from Triumph for the same exact bearing you can get at a bearing supplier for 10 bucks each ...........profit margin markup
Stretch,
I pulled off the stator cover today and about an ounce of oil spilled out on the floor from the stator compartment, is this common or normal? I laid down the bike on the left side last winter, could that be the reason there was a little oil in the cover?
From reading various accounts of folks replacing their stators, it's quite common to see a teaspoon or two of engine oil dripping out of the case when the stator cover is removed, but I'm not sure if there's actually supposed to be oil in that area or not.
A couple guys here (myself included) have had the Triumph stator rewound because it's a bit thicker and can hold more wire. It's also cheaper than buying a new stator. In speaking with the guys at Custom Rewind, they're pretty sure that the oil inside the stator cover is contributing to the stator failure problem a few of us have been having. They believe that the oil is attacking the insulating varnish on the copper wiring, allowing the coils of wire to short against themselves.
Their solution is to coat the newly-rewound stator with a high-temperature marine-grade epoxy, effectively sealing the wires inside a plastic case. Any engine oil that does make it into the stator case is unable to make contact with the wires and their insulation.
As for the oil seal... for some reason, these seals aren't keeping the oil out of the stator case. I'd guess that of the instances I have read about, maybe 3/4 of them had oil in the case.
So... since the seals don't seem to be capable of keeping oil out of the stator cases, I had Custom Rewind seal the stator itself.
I'm not saying that oil in the stator cover is the cause of all these charging system failures. Mine crapped out because the Regulator / Rectifier died and spiked the stator, killing it as well. The replacement stator was an Electrosport, but I wasn't happy with it at all.
Since then, I've tried a few different combinations of stators and R/R's, looking for a bullet-proof charging system. What I've come up with is the epoxy-coated rewound Triumph stator by Custom Rewind, and a MOFSET-type Regulator / Rectifier from a late-model Honda CBR1000, mounted on the outside of the bike so it can get cooler air.
http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,6180 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,6180)
So far, so good.
Thanks Stretch. I intend to keep my old stator and send it in for a rewind some time later. I will keep in mind the epoxy coating and have that preformed as well.
On the subject of heat, I suppose that the off road riding I have done contributed to the R/R failure. The slow pace with insufficient air flow for the R/R probably helped the R/R to fail. I noticed while riding off road that the radiator fan comes on a lot, which means this riding creates a much warmer environment for the entire bike. I have been looking for reasons the Tiger seems to have this problem, while the Sprint ST and others with the same stator and R/R do not. Possibly it is the off road riding.
I agree that low speeds (and the subsequent reduced airflow to the R/R) may be a root cause of Tiger R/R's dying. Mine died two days into the TransAmerica Trail in Tennessee.
Like I said in another post, these kinds of charging system failures aren't restricted to Tigers. The BMW F650GS has a very similar problem because its R/R is tucked out of sight, so as to be aesthetically pleasing to the eye. When some 650GS owners started troubleshooting and experimenting, they found that the R/R was getting too hot to touch after a trail ride. One guy moved his into the airbox, so that the draft of the air moving into the throttle bodies would always have a supply of fresh cool air surrounding the R/R.
That inspired me to start fiddling with the location of mine. After having run a MOFSET R/R in the open air for several months now, I don't think it's necessary to mount the thing to a copper plate with heat sinks. The copper never even gets warm. Due to better materials and its efficient design, this type of R/R simply doesn't generate the amount of heat that is seen with older SCR-type R/R's (like the Tiger's).
So I'm hoping that with the Stator protected from the engine oil, the new MOSFET Regulator / Rectifier out in the fresh air, big wires, and a Sasquatch Fix with a Maxi-Fuse, that my charging system problems are a thing of the past. Time will tell.
"From reading various accounts of folks replacing their stators, it's quite common to see a teaspoon or two of engine oil dripping out of the case when the stator cover is removed, but I'm not sure if there's actually supposed to be oil in that area or not. "
I was thinking about the idea of tapping a hole in the bottom of the stator cover and threading a plug into it so that I can drain the compartment from time to time, especially if I had a tip over on the left side. Can anyone see any harm in doing this?
I think the seal is supposed to stop oil getting in, replace the seal and it should cure it.
Can't see a reason why tapping it would be a problem though.
The seal prevents the oil from passing from the alternator casing, through the breather hose into the air box. This is on older 2005's and earlier. The newer bikes use a labyrinth breather system.
Completely normal for there to be oil in with the alternator. The longer it sits before you open it up, the more of it will have drained back into the sump.
If you really feel the need to drain the oil out, release one of the engine bolts below the alternator.
Usually it's oil vapours that cause damage to winding insulation but the oil in there shouldn't get that hot, ask a fridge engineer who has dealt with large hermatic motors. The varnishes used on windings does not last forever and will deterorate over time but expoxy will last a lot longer as Strech of the bombproof charging system says.
Not sure I'd like to put a really hot rectifier in an air box though, I'd be more tempted to bolt it onto a bigger heatsink plate astheics or not.
Cant see a problem putting a drain plug in suffice it wouldn't compromise the casing strength.
Release one of these, and you'll have your drain plug...
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/Jaredcm1/Tiger/DSCN0725.jpg)
I did the Custom Rewinds fix on my stator after one from ricks went bad after a few months of use, and so far so good!
Also, somewhere in the charging system failures thread I have a few pics of where I relocated my RR to and can say between the epoxy coating and air flowing over the RR, I'm gaining more faith in the ol' Tigger everyday in that regard.
Waaa. Lost the charging system on my way to work this morning. :cry: I wondered why my electric vest wasn't so hot! When the tach and the speedo quit, I figured I had a problem. The ol' Girly kept running, however, and got me to work. Battery was sitting at 10.66 volts. After a recharge on the battery, electrical system is running at 12.6v at 4000 rpm.
I'll be sending in the stator to Custom Rewind as soon as I can get it boxed up. I'm looking for a Honda R/R as we speak.
Looks like my Death Valley ride is going to be postponed for a week.
WOW! I had the stator rewound, swapped in a Honda regulator/rectifier, and shortened up the leads. System voltage increased from just over 13.1 VDC up to 14.48 VDC, and this is at idle with low beams. With brights and heated grips on high, I'm still looking at 14.18 at idle. I'm a very happy hampster!
Is it worth putting the Honda R/R on with original stator? are the original stators still good to go? or is the R/R the problem? who is the culprit?
I don't believe there is a definitive answer there.
The simple RR design, and location, means it tends to run hot which stresses it and (probably) ultimately causes it to fail... when it fails it can, and usually does take out the stator. (Which is why you should replace both if you have a failure)
However, in following the charging threads here, there are some concerns that the stators may fail due to their insulation coatings breaking down, perhaps when splashed with oil residues that can accumulate in the housing. (But this could also be due to an RR failure shorting a winding)
Both concerns are valid, but given that the stator will always run at a similar temp (given that it is connected to the end of the crank on the hot engine AND that it is always running fully loaded), it is probably operating well within spec. It's my opinion that the predominant failure in the system is most likely caused by an initail fault in the RR, so changing that (and doing the voltage mod) should give you a more reliable system.
Given that there seems to be a rash of problems in this area, it seems that between 30-60k the R/R plays up and needs replacing, this in turn buggers stator and it to needs replacing. The stator once warmed up wouldnt change a great deal in temp, where as the R/R certainly would, given where it is riden. eg heavy traffic, highway dirt tracks etc.
Ofcourse changing it early and for a couple of hundred bucks beats braking down on the side of a little used dirt track in a thunder storm without wet weather gear and no tool and no mobile service! on your jack malone. javascript:emoticon(':cry:')
Question will at some stage the stator/R/R fail?
Can't say....
Whilst there are a lot of folk post about these failures there are a lot of riders who never see the problem.....
Interested you've noticed the issues seems more prevalent 30-60k, I hadn't picked up on that. This could simply be when the heat load stress finally takes it's toll??
The heat buildup in the RR relates more to the load on the electrical system rather than than how the bike is being driven. Sure higher revs may generate more electrical power, but it is how the excess energy is disapated that appears to be the issue. Simply put it is turned to heat in the RR which must be dissapated effectively for it to remain fully functional.
Certainly relocating the RR to give it better cooling (airflow) should reduce the stress on it. (Theres threads on that here too.) Similarly replacing it with a new or different unit will alter when a failure may happen - IF it is related directly to heat stress over time.....
Can't be more helpful sorry, but I'd guess if it was a cut and dried issue then the factory would have dealt with it one way or another.
OK. So, since I'm a little lazy, where is the RR on my '06??
Would the accumulated knowledge think that a heat sink as on the Zener diode be a help?? A decent winter project, methinks.
As for the oil, until now, Triumph alternators have always run IN oil. It was my understanding that oil, being non-conductive, simply cooled the alternator, therefore giving it MORE lifespan, not less. When my 650 Tiger was having trouble, my dealer, whom I was going to give mucho dinero for a new one, stated that they never fail, leading me to the Lucas RR, which was the problem. Again, tucked up away from airflow (behind the bloody huge oil tank/frame member).
Oh, and my 2CV had nothing more than a labyrinth 'seal' for the points, and oil was always in the point box. Nary a spot of trouble, ever.
Cosmo
Cosmo,
You may be confusing the Meriden bikes with the Hinckley ones - the only points of similarity are the names.......
The stator on my 1974 Norton Commando did indeed fail, with an intermittent open circuit. This sent a spike through the circuit, frying the rectifier. The Zener diode worked well for its time (and was infinitely superior to the switched half-charge system) but was very crude.
Hinckley bikes have a more "sophisticated" RR witha 3-phase alternator and RR. But they still seem to have problems.
No, not confused, just not sure what/where is the RR on the Hinckley bike.
On the Meridan bikes, which used a Zener, there was a heat sink, which is the idea I would try on my '06, if there was the thought that it might help. That particular heat sink (Meridan), was a simple aluminium sheet, post '66, or a mounting on the airbox (OIF models).
I think that the RR (Hinckley) is the finned bit on left side, just under the side cover, quite near the power socket.
'Zat so??
Then I have my project.
Thank you,
Cosmo
all has been discussed and you will find pretty much all the info you need here
http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/msg,35763 :wink:
Ta muchly
Well, after 2 years with this electrical charging problem I am buying for 2nd time RR and the Stator, now the Rick´s product, previously were the OEM.
Some months ago i bought the electrosport RR but was inop and they got back part of my money.
Since you're effectively staying with the same charging solution (just changing the supplier), try relocating the RR to it can dissapate the heat better....
If you are to run enough electrical equipment to negate the residue of power to be converted to heat but leaving enough extra this would cut down the amount heat in the R/R?
Geting the balance right is the problem and ambient temp as well as riding conditions.
we need experient.
Mark
.... and there also needs to be enough 'left-over' to charge the battery......
That was the left over bit, the battery.
I came home from work at 3am 38kms, it was 16deg c no traffic (as you would expect), bit of everything town highway twisty bit, high beam 50% of the time, both high and low beam have the switch relays in them everything else is standard, R/R was cool to touch.
I will check day in next couple day temps and get a temp gauge to do it proper.
Mark
06 tiger
Quote from: "EvilBetty"The seal prevents the oil from passing from the alternator casing, through the breather hose into the air box. This is on older 2005's and earlier. The newer bikes use a labyrinth breather system.
Completely normal for there to be oil in with the alternator. The longer it sits before you open it up, the more of it will have drained back into the sump.
If you really feel the need to drain the oil out, release one of the engine bolts below the alternator.
Where is this oil seal. Is it behind the rotor? I have taken my alternator cover off and it is not obvious.
Thanks
The 06's appear to be an odd amalgam of 05 & 07 parts. Are they less prone to RR / stator failure, or no different than all the other Girlies ??
Quote from: "delecti"If you are to run enough electrical equipment to negate the residue of power to be converted to heat but leaving enough extra this would cut down the amount heat in the R/R?
I think you guys may have this heat thing back to front. I say that because, the times I've had to start the bike with a completely flat battery (twice, don't ask) I noticed that the RR got extremely hot as it was stuffing the battery with charge. So, going by this observation, when the battery is fully charged the RR should be cool and when you're running all sorts of accessories it would get hot.
I'm thinking that the altinator produces power and that power increases as the revs increase, ok? and it does it constantly, so if your system doesnt use as much of the power produced by the altinator, then it has to be disposed of. Since all energy is not lost it has to be changed into something else, ie heat in the regulator. it is the law of physics
Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy
When a piece of copper metal is heated in air, it comes together with oxygen in the air. Then if it is weighed, it is found to have a greater mass that the original piece of metal. If however the mass of the oxygen of the air that combines with the metal is taken into consideration, it can be shown that the mass of the product is within the limits of accuracy of any weighing instrument, equal to the sum of the masses of the copper and oxygen that combine. This behavior of matter is in accord with what is called the Law of Conservation of Matter: During an ordinary chemical change, there is no detectable increase or decrease in the quantity of matter.
Conversion of one type of matter into another are always accompanied by the conversion of one form of energy into another. Usually heat is leveled or absorbed, but sometimes the conversion involves light or electrical energy instead of, or in addition to heat. Many transformations of energy, of course, do not involve chemical changes. Electrical energy can be changed into either mechanical, light, heat or potential energy without chemical changes. Mechanical energy is converted into electrical energy in a generator. Potential and kinetic energy can be converted into one another. Many other conversions are possible, but all of the energy involved in any change always appears in some form after the change is completed.
The Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can change its form.
The total quantity of matter and energy available in the universe is a fixed amount and never any more or less.
So there it is in b&w
enjoy :shock:
mark
06 silver tiger
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(http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/a085.gif)
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@Delecti you're probably right.... and in lay-mans terms it means when you create or use electricity heat is always a by-product. Well thats the simple way I learnt to remember it.
@Blacktiger. The rr will always get hot when its working at full load. A flat battery is (electrically) similar to dumping it to ground. It is the way the simple system has been designed.
Soo... heres a thing to ponder on. We know that not everyone experiences charging problems, and we know that essentially all the Girlies leave the factory identical. So what is the difference that causes, exacerbates the issue.... different climates, different trip lengths, amount of riding, perhaps the way we ride, or a combination of a number of these. Certainly we're all different shapes and have unique riding stances and styles. Maybe how I sit has enough of a minor effect on the airflow around the RR to make a difference..........
you are problably right what you are essentually saying is if you have wind, your cool!
Mark
06 silver tiger :lol: