Who's tired of talking about 675 Tigers? Not me!
I had about a 45 minute interview with our Triumph Regional Manager yesterday... we are in Triumph's ear canals, I assure you! He took a full page of notes regarding what I think people want in an offroad-oriented "GS-Killer".
A few things on that list were:
*exhaust pipes that do not route under the machine
*low weight and nicely balanced center of gravity
*wide footpegs with teeth not rubbers
*no buffeting a la 1050 Roadies
*mirrors that have the ability to fold in like KTM mirrors
*21" front and 18" rear spoked wheels
*I love my eccentric adjuster so I told him I want it back
*an accessory wire under the cowling... he asked me about the accessory plug on the side of my '02 and I told him I never use it
*enough juice to power some electrical stuff
Triumph factory accessories I recommended:
*aluminum skid plate
*aluminum-backed handguards
*headlight guard and all the other readiator/oil cooler/etc guards
*Triumph-badged soft bags w/ raincovers or durable hard bags like Pelican cases
*aux lights/mounts
*different heigh windscreens
*heated grips
After he interviewed me, we went out back where my bike has been parked and he took a bunch of pics and closeups of various bits. What I told him was I needed one bike that could do almost everything... single track, water xings, backroads, interstate trips with my wife to get the hell outta Dodge.
So... I asked him if Triumph was actually considering this bike or if he was blowing smoke. Yes, Triumph is listening, although they may be waiting on the economy to slightly improve. So send emails, letters, whatever!
My view, Flux has it sewn up. Cut and paste his list into an Email and send it to triumph.... I know I will :D
There are many of us who have no desire for a 675 though. I want MORE power, not less.
The rest of the list looked good though.
If I had to replace the Girly today, I think I would be plunking my money down on the new Ducati Multistrada. I have a KTM for the dirt, my Tiger is my road machine with the occasional dirt road thrown in for fun.
Right on with the list. What email are you using to send to Triumph?
I have to say Triumph has also had thoughts about converting the 1050 Tiger into 2 different directions as well... one a more street oriented bike and another being a 1050 offroad Tiger... so that possibility is still there. I think right now Triumph is just weighing their options. 8)
HappyMan, I work at a Triumph dealer... haven't been emailing anyone... all this stuff is in person. But I will find the best email for you to use when I get a chance.
I really like Flux's list. As far as the quibbling whether the future Big Pig needs MORE power not LESS: Personally I don't think she needs more power, but less weight. Suzuki did something kinda amazing with their TS 125 way back in the day: it was a 125 cc bike with a dual tranny: it essentially had 12 speeds. 6 on road, 6 off. It was a monster in the dirt and could go 85 MPH on the highway. If we want a bike that can do it all, that would be the way to do it without getting a 1050.
If I want more power, I will ride my Sprint. What led me to the Tiger in the first place was a long road trip on the Sprint where she performed admirably (at one point going from Salt Lake City to the Nevada border in 1 (one) hour: you do the math what speed I was cruising). But there were many gorgeous roads I wanted to travel that were strictly off limits to the Sprint, mighty as she is on the tarmac. Crap, I'd just like to be able to roll into a gravel roaded campground after dark and not drop it in a rutl! That's asking a lot from the Sprint.
I don't need a flying Tiger, just one that can handle some washboards and a river crossing here and there. Flux's list is almost there.
Quote from: "Sasquatch"There are many of us who have no desire for a 675 though. I want MORE power, not less.
+1
EB, the dual tranny discussion didn't make an impression?
Every-body-wants-to-rule-the-world.
The dual transmission thing is interesting. I'll have to ponder on that for a bit.
If it was simply a 12 speed trans... how does that make it 6 on and 6 offroad? Or did it have 2 clutches? I'm kinda confused how that would work.
100 Bhp is fine. And that's as much if not more than your 885 or 955 engine.....
I want less weight.
Ideally, I want <175 kg, 100 Bhp, 200 mile tank range and some off road ability. Triumph need to understand that it's gotta happen or it's a KTM next for many of us. As an Englishman that's as close to a treasonous act as I can envisage committing, but I like the occasional blast across the byways on the downs....
So 675 is good because it weighs less than a 1050 motor, consumes less fuel so needs a smaller tank to get to 200 mile range....
That said a GS Killing 1050 tiger with proper off road ability would be fine too thank you very much.
Quote from: "flux"The dual transmission thing is interesting. I'll have to ponder on that for a bit.
If it was simply a 12 speed trans... how does that make it 6 on and 6 offroad? Or did it have 2 clutches? I'm kinda confused how that would work.
high range and low range setting ......uses the same 6 gears for both
it's the wee-strom vstrom debate. in the end the wee won. i like the vstrom better. But, i think the 675 tiger would edge out the 1050 in a more ds kit. i just hope if they do it, they go all out and make it a true ds. untill then i'll not get my hopes up.
like happyman i would love to know whom to write to, and let them know my feelings.
You are correct, Mustang. The old TS125 has this long, double-ended paddle on a rocker on the top of the clutch housing: if you hit it with your toe (the front paddle), it would use the street settings, heel (back paddle), offroad settings. I can't remember if you had to be completely stopped or not to make the shift from one to the other, but it was really easy to do.
Had a look at the Triumph website to find out where we need to send our collective wisdom. There doesn't appear to be a specific email address so it looks like a letter will be better.
Triumph Motorcycles Ltd
Normandy Way
Hinckley
Leicestershire
LE10 3BZ
United Kingdom
The people to write to are either Tue Mantoni, the chief executive or Simon Warburton, the Head of Product Management.
Perhaps if we could agree something, we could write as a group from tigertriple.com? (With Geoff's permission of course)
What can we agree on? Perhaps that the next tiger of any kind needs to able to handle some off road action?
Thanks for getting the info. I think a letter is a great idea. I'd like to see a consensus that we could send to them. It's a good idea, otherwise it just becomes a bunch of crazy ideas from a bunch of guys that wouldn't pay for all our dreaming....
To narrow it down, while I'd love the smaller motor I do believe from a marketing standpoint their 1050 will make them more money. I'd like to see a smaller, lighter, DS oriented Tiger with whatever engine they choose. Low center of gravity. Something more like the BMW F800GS.
This is a picture of the the old TS 125 Prospector.
If you look toward the back of the motor, down near the bottom of the sump in this picture, you can see a funny-looking rocker-like thing sticking up that was the "switch" for the trail versus street settings for the 5 gears (it was 5, not six, sorry). I remember it was amazing.
If Triumph did this, they would destroy the competition with cunning regarding the adventure touring niche. Of course it wouldn't be worth it as much on a bike weighing over 200 kg, hence the 675 would ideal for this. Plus all the other reasons a 675 would be the real deal.
I would write a letter to Triumph USA personally.
Triumph Motorcycles (America) Ltd.
385 Walt Sanders Memorial Drive
Suite 100
Newnan, Georgia 30265
Regarding the 1050: I agree with you HappyMan: they will make likely more money on the 1050 motor. Sadly I am of the opinion for more evolved riders, these extra cc's are not the best place for them: YAGNI (Ya Ain't Gonna Need It), but you'll have to lug that bike over the ruts and 'boards anyway.
I did multiple test rides on the F800GS: I was all set to get one before I bought the Steamer I have now. The reason I caved and bought the Steamer is it felt a lot like the F800GS and was 1/6th the price. But the F800GS weighs around 175 kg! For a real offroad-capable machine, 175 kg is still too heavy. On the other hand someone told me once what "DR" means in the Suzuki DR650. "Don't Ride". It rattles your B0ll0cks off over 60 mph: not fun crossing continents on it.
The bike that tries to do it all might end up doing nothing well and pleasing nobody. The market is filled with big pigs similar to the BMW R1200GS, so I think it might make sense for Triumph to go the other way and try for a street-exciting machine that can do better than the average "Adventure Touring" bike offroad. This includes traveling lighter and having some kind of insane "edge" like a dual tranny found on the bygone Suzuki TS.
Just my $0.02.
And REAL FOOKIN' SUSPENSION for a refreshing change, please. I'll pay the extra $$ for a turn-key bike.
I've ridden KTM 950/990's and both the 1200 and 800 GS bikes. I'd never take a 1200GS in the dirt. Too expensive, too heavy. Props to those who do. Riding my own pig in the dirt is work enough for me.
The maintenance on the KTM makes my Steamer look like a walk in the park. No F'ing way I'm dealing with that mess. :evil: I wish they would bring us the 690 Adventure. The suspension on both the 990/950's and a 640 I rode were butery smooth in the nastiest rock gardens. No comparison exists in the BMW or Triumph range.
The 800GS is a very nice compromise, in my opinion. Except the price and the required dealer support. Der Korp does not wish you to work on your own bike. If you cannot get along with your local dealer (my case) this bike will probably not be the right choice for you. And in the intangible area, the 800GS had very little soul when I rode it. The exhaust note from the stock pipe sounds like a beer fart as well. :lol:
Personally, what I love about my Steamer is the mix of road and off road capabilities, the ability to haul the missus around and the strong engine. From what I understand the 675 engine makes similar power numbers to a 855 / 955 engine.
675 in a daytona = 104Bhp
855 steamer = 84Bhp
955 tiger = 104Bhp
1050 in a tiger = 113Bhp
R1150GS = 85Bhp
R1200GS = 105Bhp
F800GS = 85Bhp
The difference will be torque I guess.
Never wanted more power. If I want that kinda power/speed thing I jump on the 955i Daytona and lash around with 130 Bhp. Which normally scares the sh*t out of me.
The reason I want less weight is that riding is much easier with a light bike - especially off road...
This 5+5 gear ratio thing. Col Nic can you shed a bit more light on this? Is it just adjusting the primary drive ratio so you get two sets of 'speeds' like on a land rover? What are the benefits for riding off road? Would it not be easier to have a seven speed box with a broad spread of ratios?
If a 1050 off road tiger is a real possibility, then perhaps a power switch like you get on the new ducati is in order. Perhaps road = 130 Bhp, Rain mode = 100 Bhp, Off road = 75Bhp but with more torque?
Quote from: "Colonel Nikolai"EB, the dual tranny discussion didn't make an impression?
Every-body-wants-to-rule-the-world.
Not really, but remember I don't have any interest in riding mine in the dirt. I see the appeal for a lighter weight 675 for the riders that crave a bad ass dual sport bike, but that's not me.
I also don't have a another bike to ride on long trips and commutes. I like my Tiger because it has the touring ability, weight, and power to take me on long trips at interstate speeds, not just through the plains of Kansas :)
If Triumph did make a 675 Tiger and the 1050 Tiger in tandem I'm sure that would be the best of both worlds, but I don't know where I'd be looking for my next bike if they quit making a touring friendly tiger.
Nobody said anything about them ceasing production of the touring-based Tiger...
Well if they are just simply adding another bike to the line up then then that would be awesome!
Even if the 1050 Tiger as we now it became some different model and the 675 retained the Tiger badge it wouldn't upset me much. The Tiger has it's roots with the dirt friendly bike after all.
Quote from: "EvilBetty"Quote from: "Colonel Nikolai"EB, the dual tranny discussion didn't make an impression?
Every-body-wants-to-rule-the-world.
Not really, but remember I don't have any interest in riding mine in the dirt. I see the appeal for a lighter weight 675 for the riders that crave a bad ass dual sport bike, but that's not me.
I also don't have a another bike to ride on long trips and commutes. I like my Tiger because it has the touring ability, weight, and power to take me on long trips at interstate speeds, not just through the plains of Kansas :)
If Triumph did make a 675 Tiger and the 1050 Tiger in tandem I'm sure that would be the best of both worlds, but I don't know where I'd be looking for my next bike if they quit making a touring friendly tiger.
There are plenty of street bikes for you to choose from, EB. Why not buy one of those? This segment is way over-represented in my opinion. I have both a street only bike (which I have ridden on dirt roads :shock: ) and the Tiger that I can take literally everywhere I want to go to a point.
I guess my point is, the Steamers are getting old, maybe it's time to bring back something like this with FI and less weight (fer chrissakes!). Power is fine on my Tiger and manageable.
The power switch thingy is bullshit. My street bike has three "maps". I use one. Power management is a right wrist thing, IMO. I'll manage the power just fine, thank you very much. You really don't want the computer doing this for you, trust me. :lol: We're all grown-ups here, right?
If you can't manage the power your bike makes or don't possess the mental disciple to do so, maybe a lower-powered bike is for you and I'm behind you 110%. If I had this kind of power on tap at 16 years old, I'd be dead long before now.
Quote from: "JetdocX"If I had this kind of power on tap at 16 years old, I'd be dead long before now.
Yeah!! But what a way to go!!!! :headbang
Quote from: "JetdocX"There are plenty of street bikes for you to choose from, EB. Why not buy one of those? This segment is way over-represented in my opinion. I have both a street only bike (which I have ridden on dirt roads :shock: ) and the Tiger that I can take literally everywhere I want to go to a point.
Maybe so, but the Tiger is the only bike that "fits" me. The sport touring bikes all feel like a clown car. The the 2008 Tiger was the first bike I ever sat on that felt right. And I haven't found an equal since. Actually, my 2005 Tiger does seem to fit a bit better... and it's price point was much better at the time :)
I didn't mean to belittle or dissuade the 675 discussion. I just wanted to voice my minority opinion of praise for the way the Tiger line has been proceeding. There are a TON of street bikes of every type, but I've found very few that work for taller riders like myself and are still highway and twisty worthy. For me the Tiger fit the bill.
There's a few folks (my sister and her husband for a start) who'd like a 1050 / 675 pairing with similar capability like the 1200 / 800 GS but without the running costs. Despitye being in her early 50s she can manage the weight because she's very fit, but - whichever way you cut it - her legs are just too short for her to manage a big bike.
She rides a Triumph Adveturer simply for the very low seat.
I'd like to see a taller top gear. As it is (06 Girly), sixth just lowers the road rpm a smidge, whereby the HPproduced could see it lowered a lot, for better MPG. Raising the O/A gearing is the only way to go right now (I've done that, 42 tooth rear), but that takes away the dig on the bottom, as well as abuses the clutch.
The 5 + 5 on the Suzuki was probably like the 5 + 5 on the later Honda 900 Custom from about '79 - a set of gears on the output shaft. Think of it like the axle shift on medium-duty trucks, you've a low range and a high range.
I still think a six-speed set up with an O/D-like top gear would serve the best interests of all, without all that complication. Face it, no one uses top gear in the dirt, and who amongst us has not found themselves in fifth on the motorway, happily humming along for miles, until discovering that we forgot to upshift that last time?? I know I have been there.
Cosmo
You have to look at it from a marketing perspective. There aren't alot of us out there. Triumph is clearly in the "steal some of the h-d market" frame of mind. Look at nearly every promotional shot they put out....Cruisers and guys in black leather.
However with that aside I am all for a 675 Tiger. The Girly is at the top end of my comfortable riding weight and size. Actually nobody has mentioned again from a marketing perspective a 675 tiger ds and the easy factory option 675 tiger supermoto. That would be a whole new market for Triumph. They should have already came out with the ds1050. My opinion is they will not do it and the 675 tiger is a pipe dream.
In a few years it may be a F800 for me. Or to the ultimate 2 bike setup of Husky 610 and Concourse14. Still need that Scrambler though!
Quote from: "brad1098"You have to look at it from a marketing perspective. There aren't alot of us out there. Triumph is clearly in the "steal some of the h-d market" frame of mind. Look at nearly every promotional shot they put out....Cruisers and guys in black leather.
My opinion is they will not do it and the 675 tiger is a pipe dream.
ding ding ding I think we have a winner................I'm with Brad , if it was going to happen it would already be .
Rocket 3's Bonnevilles and now the Thunderbird are where their focus is .
While some of the ideas like dual speed transmission is kind of neat, if triumph makes a bike like this, or even a dirt worthy 1050, they're not going to stray too far from the basic hardware. On the 1050, chances are it would be an accessory exercise+different wheels. On a 675, the drivetrain would look a lot like the street triple+ longer suspension+different wheels. No way they are going to build a new engine casing to accommodate the dual speed setup.
I do think the 1050 is more likely. Just look at the market. The 1200GS is BMWs best seller. KTM killed the 640 adventure, and even when they did make it the imported about 200 per year to the US. I myself would love a 675 based adventure bike, but I'm not holding my breath.
Geof
I should also add that I am glad for all those cruisers and other bikes that Triumph makes since Triumph is probably the only bike manufacturer that is actually growing and selling more bikes, while HD is down 84% and Suzuki isn't going to import 2010 models because there is too much 2009 inventory left.
Geof
Quote from: "abruzzi"I should also add that I am glad for all those cruisers and other bikes that Triumph makes since Triumph is probably the only bike manufacturer that is actually growing and selling more bikes, while HD is down 84% and Suzuki isn't going to import 2010 models because there is too much 2009 inventory left.
Geof
You are right that Triumph is one of the only few manufacturers that is still growing.
As for Suzuki, they have not yet released what will be available for 2010, because, yes, there are a ton of 2009's still out there. But that is not to say they will not import 2010 models at all.
We sell Triumph, Yamaha, and Suzuki.
We have only two streetbikes from Suzuki here and a few dirtbikes. The only Suzukis people ever come in for are GSXR's and Busas. That's it.
People loking for Yamahas are looking at Grizzlies, Rhinos, and Stars. Not a lot else.
Folks coming in looking for Triumph are cool because someone looking for a Triumph wants a Triumph and isn't considerring other makes. They typically also either have cash or can actually qualify for financing. In the Triumph line, I have noticed that most people are into the Rocket 3 or the Speed Triple. I also have a lot of activity on the Scrambler, but most people just see it as a curiosity... not so much of a "I want it" attitude. Very very few people come interested in a Tiger. I try to get everyone to sit on it, most do, but most don't know what it's purpose is. This is just honest feedback from what I have learned after a month in the selling game.
Just my feedback...
Quote from: "flux"Very very few people come interested in a Tiger. I try to get everyone to sit on it, most do, but most don't know what it's purpose is. This is just honest feedback from what I have learned after a month in the selling game.
Just my feedback...
This is why you probably will never see anything other than the current Tiger for US sales ....
Quote from: "Mustang"Quote from: "flux"Very very few people come interested in a Tiger. I try to get everyone to sit on it, most do, but most don't know what it's purpose is. This is just honest feedback from what I have learned after a month in the selling game.
Just my feedback...
This is why you probably will never see anything other than the current Tiger for US sales ....
We can't forget that we are really the minority, at least here in the US.
We are riders that care about what we ride, how we ride and we ride out of passion and in many cases because it's our main form of transportation. In my opinion the majority of cyclists in the US ride because they want to look cool or it's a nice hobby for the weekend. They don't ride far and they don't spend much time learning to ride or learning to improve their skills. I'm not cutting them down and they are a legitimate part of the market force.
However, while we may be important to Triumph they still need to sell to the market willing to pay for their bikes. After all, people with disposable incomes have disposable hobbies and are willing to spend the money that's needed to put food on the table of Triumph's employees and it's re-sellers. I'm a capitalist and I get that!! I'd sure love some of that disposable income....but I digress.
I do believe our voices can be heard and it's important to let Triumph know how we feel but we need to keep it realistic or they will never listen. It just becomes white noise. As a business owner myself I listen to plenty of committees and each of the individuals have their own wish list and their own ideas about what they want but in the end they have to come to a consensus on what they agree to and go with that. They can never afford their dreams. Or at least not all of the committee member's dreams at one time. It's still good to dream so we have an idea of the big picture but then we've got to come back down to reality and build on that.
We need to look at this the same way but be realistic. As stated earlier, building off of the same frame with options is the most likely thing to happen and quite frankly the smartest thing a business looking to stay alive financially can do. So let's give them good ideas but not pipe dreams. Give them something that would make us happy but don't expect the perfect bike. After all, that's really why we have after market companies. It's not because the manufacturer couldn't do it. It's just that the mass market couldn't afford every detail and the consumer would never agree on those details. We buy accessories because we want to get the bike closer to our dreams. I'm glad I have that choice.
Too true, HappyMan. Maybe what we should ask for is something they can sell to the masses and something we can farkle / accessorize as easily as possible to get what we want. So what this means is we need to paint in broad strokes.
The broadest strokes I can think of is:
1) less weight
2) good clearance
3) long legs (suspension)
4) a frame that has obvious places to add guards, not the science projects we have now where making engine guards is a high-tech affair that costs a lot aftermarket and therefore nobody makes them in a few years.
This is kind of the playbook of Harley, where some of the big money is actually long after the bike sale is made.
Quote from: "Colonel Nikolai"Too true, HappyMan. Maybe what we should ask for is something they can sell to the masses and something we can farkle / accessorize as easily as possible to get what we want. So what this means is we need to paint in broad strokes.
The broadest strokes I can think of is:
1) less weight
2) good clearance
3) long legs (suspension)
4) a frame that has obvious places to add guards, not the science projects we have now where making engine guards is a high-tech affair that costs a lot aftermarket and therefore nobody makes them in a few years.
This is kind of the playbook of Harley, where some of the big money is actually long after the bike sale is made.
Good list. This gives them objectives that they can fill with whatever motor, drive train, etc. that makes sense to them.
Add to that list a 19" front wheel so we can easily get tires to suit our needs.
For me the Girly simply fits the way I use it. I like the high riding position and the torque is great, I certainly don't need more Horses. If I could improve it simply it would be by reducing its weight, changing the ratio on 6th for something taller, and perhaps improving the suspension.
If they were to make a 675 Tiger (Cub?)... Compared to a 1050 it would be good and light around town and a great commuter. If they got it right it would be great off tarmac too. Ultimately it would depend on the tune... get that right and it should be a winner.... I know my lady could be talked into one.
Currently she has a Versys, which I quite like, and ride more than her. (Its certainly better in the city than the Girly because of its weight) I've done some Touring days on it too... but right now if I was going to pick a Trumpy to ride round the world on, I think I'd pick a Scrambler, with a bit of farklin
Quote from: "Mustang"Quote from: "flux"Very very few people come interested in a Tiger. I try to get everyone to sit on it, most do, but most don't know what it's purpose is. This is just honest feedback from what I have learned after a month in the selling game.
Just my feedback...
This is why you probably will never see anything other than the current Tiger for US sales ....
I agree to a point. The problem with the Roadies is that people don't see them as an offroad capable bike... at all. With a 675 (or 1050) machine purpose built to be taken offroad... well... folks would understand it's reason for existence.
We all know the Roadie is a great bike, personally I love the thing, but you have to admit that it is kinda the red headed stepchild of the marque. (no offense to red headed stepchildren!) :D
Even the first generation tigers (steamers ) were never meant for off road use according to Triumph themselves ............from the steamer owners manual , this is the very FIRST WARNING in a list of many
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/WARNING.jpg)
the next warning also tells you not to tow a trailer or mount a sidecar
good thing I can't read :ImaPoser
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/sidecar/100_1998.jpg)
Now that's funny right there! :D
Mustang it looks chilly there..... :shock:
That sticker is strangely absent from my Steamer, probably the root of all my problems with it (can we move this one to M&M, please?)
Happy Man, I don't see why we shouldn't ask for what we want. All Triumph is going to build is cruisers next year anyhow, so what's the harm? :roll:
I think it fair to say that Triumph has recently concentrated on making cruisers, especially for the American market, but what you see in America isn't the full picture. Triumph sell a lot of different bikes in Europe especially in Italy and in these markets, very few people ride cruiser-type bikes.
Cruisers don't really make sense when your road network is all corners and no straights and the rain ruins your chrome. In the UK especially, if you ride a cruiser (esp HD) you are bringing undue attention to yourself and that is usually regarded as somewhat indiscreet and ostentatious by most, to say the least....
One of the biggest selling bikes of all in Britain is the BMW R1200GS which outsells almost everything else bar the Yamaha YZR 125. It does this by being a rugged, versatile bike that can go anwhere and tour, two-up, on road, off road, round the world, luggage options whatever. It does this despite having a crap old fashioned engine, weird looks and being German, which while I admire many things German, isn't that cool when it comes to bikes.
Imagine a handsome, sexy GS-like bike with a decent triple engine and less weight and weirdness - isn't that what we what in a tiger...?
Give us an adventure option to keep those with off road pretensions interested and everything's good.
Triumph are making interesting bikes right now and are doing well. I think they are developing the balls required to take big manufacturers on head-to-head. So I don't think that it's beyond comprehension that enough people contribute to Triumph, they will adjust future tigers to do what we want.
I think the 1200GS shows the adventure market is too big to ignore, or why would BMW go to the trouble of building the 800GS or Ducati doing the new Multistrada, or Guzzi, blah blah.... I will never understand why Triumph took away the only credible, affordable alternative. They either badly underestimated what the market was doing when they did the 1050 Tiger - I mean, it's not as hard as a Fazer or as strong as a Bandit - or they took the Tiger brand loyalty for granted and thought that we'd buy whatever they decided we should have. If that's the case they should take a look at what die-hard Pan European riders are riding these days. Honda gave itself a bloody nose with that heap of junk.
Is it possible to start a poll on this site?
I'd be curious to see how many of us actually ride our bikes offroad. A nice, simple, decisive consensus.
It seems so from the faq's. I think there an option to add a poll to a new topic. Just start a new topic and scroll down a bit to see where how...
Quote from: "nickcalne"It seems so from the faq's. I think there an option to add a poll to a new topic. Just start a new topic and scroll down a bit to see where how...
Cool! Got it! Cheers!
Cast your votes!
Quote from: "JetdocX"Happy Man, I don't see why we shouldn't ask for what we want. All Triumph is going to build is cruisers next year anyhow, so what's the harm? :roll:
LOL JetdocX. You may be right. I'm not a fan of cruisers but I do think Triumph makes some pretty cool ones. I'm sure that I am biased, however.
Flooding Triumph with a bunch of off the wall dreams would just make them ignore us. But if we give them well thought out ideas even if some of them are out there a bit, I think they would take us seriously. They can only do so much though so we have to be realistic. I know I can't afford everything I want in my motorcycle.....
Quote from: "oxnsox"Currently she has a Versys, which I quite like, and ride more than her...........
Did you want to rephrase that or should we get you a counselor? :ImaPoser Or perhaps we all need to take a closer look at the Versys??
I think the Bonnie, Scrambler, and Thruxton are bad ass classically styled TRIUMPH bikes. But I can't grasp the Rocket, Thunderbird or America. They look like they are trying too hard to be a Harley. They might be great bikes, but I can't get past the "me too!" appearance.
I'm glad the lines are keeping Triumph a live, but I'll have to stick to my understanding that %98 of people are crazy or partially retarded.
Hi Flux,
A couple of additions based on my offroading of all sorts of unlikely machines, including a Hayabusa!
Spoked wheels yes, but crossed spoked tubeless like the BMTroubleyous.
19" front is fine for all roads touring, this is not a full on dirt bike remember.
Likewise 200kg is light enough. Much lighter and your bike starts to pinball around on rough bitumen.
A decent rear shock and protection for the rear shock please. The oil in the stocker overheats after about 10 minutes of washboard. Presto! no damping!
Can we get the rear disk caliper back on top of the swingarm, out of the way of rocks etc.
Airbox access is woeful on both Steamers and Girlies. On our bulldust here in Oz it is prudent to pull the airfilter everyday and give it a dust and a clean, which is a pain currently.
If Triumph want to be really clever, why not take a page out of Ducati's new multistrada's book and run a number of different engine maps and suspension heights for different usage? I'm sure all of us who offroad their Girlies have discovered that 105hp is too much of a good thing on steep uphill washboard!
Our local mag AMCN is running the normal grainy Christmas rumour photos in the latest yearbook addition. These include and new 1100 Sprint, Daytona (another unlikely holy grail) and an adventure version of Tigger. To be honest you can't really see anythnig in the alleged photos, but its nice to dream!
EB- I agree about the America but you need to ride a Rocket 3. I must say there is no other bike like it that I know of. It's very well balanced, has TONS of power, and turns heads everywhere it goes. To top it off, 'round March or April we are expecting the Rocket 3 Roadster with less chrome and even more power. From pics I have seen it is actually a very cool looking bike.
Advwannabe- Good points, and ones I've not thought of. I can't imagine having to check that air filter every day. Blech! Any chance you can scan those pics in the magazine for those of us stateside? Oh yeah, I will change my 21" front idea to a 19"... yer right about that. 8)
The new poll is a great idea with rather interesting preliminary results.
I remember an interview with the lead designer when the 1050 tiger came out. This prick said "well nobody that rides a tiger actually takes them off-road, so we took that part away" Are you kidding me? When I heard that I said to myself, well I guess Im not getting a new tiger! :(
Quote from: "flux"EB- I agree about the America but you need to ride a Rocket 3. I must say there is no other bike like it that I know of. It's very well balanced, has TONS of power, and turns heads everywhere it goes. To top it off, 'round March or April we are expecting the Rocket 3 Roadster with less chrome and even more power. From pics I have seen it is actually a very cool looking bike.
Advwannabe- Good points, and ones I've not thought of. I can't imagine having to check that air filter every day. Blech! Any chance you can scan those pics in the magazine for those of us stateside? Oh yeah, I will change my 21" front idea to a 19"... yer right about that. 8)
EB, I took a R3 touring out for a ride a few weeks back. Nothing like a Harley, in fact the most unique experience I've had riding a bike in ages. Give one a go.
I'm out on my folks farm at the moment, will scan the article when we get home after Christmas. We only have to check the airbox daily when riding powdery bulldust, but it is a pain. I've been thinking about installing a foam prefilter in the airbox intake.
Good to see Triumph may be listening a bit
I'm with Nick about the style of bikes, but I think that it's very country specific. US of A is definitely Cruiser country but hey that keeps the concrete pump builders at HD in leather handlebar tassles...
Europe though is not only made up of lots of smaller countries, but they also have a roading system that is loosely based upon routes that evolved perhaps before the wheel was invented then later refined by the Romans and the widths of their Chariots. Which also defined the now narrow village road structures.... Which makes for a different type of roading system suiting different types of bikes.
All manufacturers make for the markets they can sell the numbers to, and world wide the numbers aren't in the big capacity market but in the sub 125cc one.... but hey I ain't complaining.
Since this topic is a general 'about how to make better' it's been in the back of my mind when I've been out on the Girly in the last few days. And it got me focussed on the gearbox. I found that there really are 2 gears I use most often, 4th and 7th.... Meaning that round town and in the hills I like 4th, you're sitting in a good spot (RPM wise) to power up or down and the noise is just pure Tiger. And when I'm on the open road its surprising how often I'll look for 7th...
Hmm... I'll have to give the Rocket a chance it seems. I watched couple of videos last night on the Thunderbird and Rocket. I have to say they sound amazing. Watching people put the front end of that rocket in the air is impressive :)
I'm trying to find that AU MCN article. Someone scanned it and posted either here or on Triumph Rat. Wasn't scanned very well, hard to make anything out.
Can't remember where I saw this offroader, might even have been on here, anyway, it's right up there with the Yamaha R1 version i posted a few months ago:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c273/BixxerBob/specialvalkyrie.jpg)
It used to be a Valkarie.....
Right on.
QuoteWe can't forget that we are really the minority, at least here in the US.
We are riders that care about what we ride, how we ride and we ride out of passion and in many cases because it's our main form of transportation. In my opinion the majority of cyclists in the US ride because they want to look cool or it's a nice hobby for the weekend. They don't ride far and they don't spend much time learning to ride or learning to improve their skills. I'm not cutting them down and they are a legitimate part of the market force.
However, while we may be important to Triumph they still need to sell to the market willing to pay for their bikes. After all, people with disposable incomes have disposable hobbies and are willing to spend the money that's needed to put food on the table of Triumph's employees and it's re-sellers. I'm a capitalist and I get that!! I'd sure love some of that disposable income....but I digress.
I do believe our voices can be heard and it's important to let Triumph know how we feel but we need to keep it realistic or they will never listen. It just becomes white noise. As a business owner myself I listen to plenty of committees and each of the individuals have their own wish list and their own ideas about what they want but in the end they have to come to a consensus on what they agree to and go with that. They can never afford their dreams. Or at least not all of the committee member's dreams at one time. It's still good to dream so we have an idea of the big picture but then we've got to come back down to reality and build on that.
We need to look at this the same way but be realistic. As stated earlier, building off of the same frame with options is the most likely thing to happen and quite frankly the smartest thing a business looking to stay alive financially can do. So let's give them good ideas but not pipe dreams. Give them something that would make us happy but don't expect the perfect bike. After all, that's really why we have after market companies. It's not because the manufacturer couldn't do it. It's just that the mass market couldn't afford every detail and the consumer would never agree on those details. We buy accessories because we want to get the bike closer to our dreams. I'm glad I have that choice.
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Quote from: "EvilBetty"but I'll have to stick to my understanding that %98 of people are crazy or partially retarded.
So where do I fit in this??
Quote from: "tett"Quote from: "EvilBetty"but I'll have to stick to my understanding that %98 of people are crazy or partially retarded.
So where do I fit in this??
Crazedtard?
:lol:
Disclaimer: I'm not an engineer, more of a mad scientist.
What if..... what if they could magically fit a 675 triple engine, into the
frame of a Scrambler or a steamer? ? Only equip it with real offroad style forks and rear suspension (mono shock)
oh imagine what you coudl do in the garage with the right pile of parts?
shoot a wrecked 675 engine into a steamer frame and add some aftermarket plastics?
a Modern day Steamer, with more off road capibility?
do it.. what I'm saying is light weigth powerful engine, with a real frame that you could attach skidplates etc to.
Of course, they could also make a tiger version of the street triple fairly easy.. but would it just compete with itself?
People said Triumph had no busniess in the 600cc supersport market either... look at the 675.. Around the world many use Motorcycles as there main mode of transport and smaller CC = less insurance/reg fees
if Triumph made a GS Killer Tiger Id buy it, If they made a 675 off road version Id buy it..
I rode a 1050 Tiger and loved it, But bought a 955, cause it had a bigger tank, and I wanted the ability to ride down crappy roads, go over curbs and go down any road I wanted to.
Ive owned Sprint ST 955, Daytona 600,
currently have a Rocket III set up as a super tourer and a Tiger with metal panniers.. I ride the Tiger almost daily to work... Love my rocket, but save it for the really long highway jaunts. ( 500-5000 trips)
here is a pic without the sissy bar and lugage rack and rear seat etc...
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/REGULATOR_album/rocketpool004.jpg)
at the drag strip...
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/REGULATOR_album/DSC_6743_exposure.jpg)
My sprint, this is the reason I wanted a tiger, I constantly toured on my sprint and wanted to load it up and go down dirt roads as well
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/REGULATOR_album/cameraphotos006.jpg)
I love my 955, now if it had real suspension and real off road capibilities without losing its all around-ness... Id buy it
otherwise, I think I need to buy Heavy duty fork springs, and rear shocks!!
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/REGULATOR_album/TIGER/HPIM1246.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii267/REGULATOR_album/TIGER/HPIM1252.jpg)
The 675 engine, as it is in the Street Triple, is far too tall to make it sensible to fit it into a DS bike.
The best DS bike Triumph could make easily at the moment would be a Scrambler ADV. It doesn't need much extra power but the Standard Scram does need longer suspension and a slightly bigger tank.
My dealer here in Belleville, IL. can never keep tigers in stock. He currently has only 2 pre-owned Tigers in stock at this time 2008 1050 with 5,600 miles and a 02 black Girly with 15,000 miles on her.
Quote from: "blacktiger"The best DS bike Triumph could make easily at the moment would be a Scrambler ADV. It doesn't need much extra power but the Standard Scram does need longer suspension and a slightly bigger tank.
Since you've already got one, you'd have a good idea about how capable the Scrambler is. For my tuppence I'd agree, this would be the easiest route for Triumph to make a rugged DS bike. There are already's exhaust kits and cams to get more power out of the engine, soo it's just better ground clearance and range.... and it'd be lighter too.
Quote from: "REGULATOR"oh imagine what you coudl do in the garage with the right pile of parts?
shoot a wrecked 675 engine into a steamer frame and add some aftermarket plastics?
a Modern day Steamer, with more off road capibility?
do it.. what I'm saying is light weigth powerful engine, with a real frame that you could attach skidplates etc to.
Those exact thoughts have been kicking around my head since I got the Steamer. No time sadly or I would be really tempted (where's that lottery ticket?), even with the Pilot Roads I found the Roadie coped remarkably well with farm tracks especially with my lack of gravel experience. Haven't heard of anybody fitting more agressive tyres, maybe due to the lack of availability :?
Seems to me we also need the wire spoke rims back, tubeless.
What I really need is something to be as capable as my 95 Steamer on any road surface for long distance touring.with a whole lot less weight. Got too much camping gear for a heavy bike. 75 ~ 85 HP should be enough for all purposes if it gives more torque as well. More gearing options would be nice too...bigger spread on top gears, lower low gears
What're the two bottles in front of the downpipes Ken?
Looks like tool tubes...................
The 2 "bottles" are a tool kit. 2 pieces of 3" ABS sewer pipe with screw on caps, about 12" long, glued together, then hose clamped onto the engine guard. Wrenches & sockets in a bag in one, screwdriver tips, pliers, tape, etc in the other. It keeps extra weight down & forward. I made up a wrench out of 1/8" plate steel to keep it it tight, keeping out sticky fingers ... 36mm, same size as needed for the steering head bearings. I tried one 4" tube, but ran into clearance problems with the front tire under severe fork loading. Less capacity also. Lots of other places to hide parts too. I uses the snorkel boxes for electrical & tire repair parts after going to a K&N airbox.
Photos available if wanted. BTW Mustang, thanks for the insight into the front sprocket cover. I can now change from 19 to 17 tooth front when starting serious gravel. Takes only 10 minutes now.
Well in the Official Triumph Magazine that just plopped through my door yesterday, John Bloor was interviewed. He was asked, "How do you see the market changing?"
He replied, "We know the speed triple naked market has grown a lot and we see that continuing. The "enduro-type" market too." (he means bmw gs)
Neither he, nor Digby Jones (chairman) in his separate interview, would be drawn on future models. But can we permit ourselves the tiniest bit of hope that, on that recognising the enduro market has grown and with Triumph not having a "enduro-type" bike that one might just be on the horizon?
Quote from: "fishnbiker"Lots of other places to hide parts too. I uses the snorkel boxes for electrical & tire repair parts after going to a K&N airbox.
You've got me interested now :? do you mean you changed the actual airbox or just to a K&N filter?
QuoteYou've got me interested now Confused do you mean you changed the actual airbox or just to a K&N filter?
I think if you go to the K&N pods, you don't need the snorkels so they become storage. But that's just my guess.
Quote from: "Colonel Nikolai"QuoteYou've got me interested now Confused do you mean you changed the actual airbox or just to a K&N filter?
I think if you go to the K&N pods, you don't need the snorkels so they become storage. But that's just my guess.
That's what I was wondering but couldn't see from the pic.
Quote from: "REGULATOR"What if..... what if they could magically fit a 675 triple engine, into the frame of a Scrambler or a steamer? ? Only equip it with real offroad style forks and rear suspension (mono shock)
I think some of the mods Patrick Rielo did to the Tiger that I copied, could serve as a starting point for making a better off road Tiger.
Main points to me are the higher riding position (99 cm), higher bars (10 cm up), the lower weight (mine is 220 so far, while Rielo lowered his to 195 kg) and the much lower center of gravity, because much of the removed weight was sitting high up (rear frame, mufflers).
These mods are relatively cheap too, except maybe the exhaust.
I ride mine on snow these days, something I never dared to do before modding it. The higher position means I have a straighter leg when I sometimes must give it a push not to fall, and it means it's less work to transfer your weight through the foot pegs, faster and easier to stand up etc.
With a 675 engine in the frame, the weight would be reduced further. That could be a killer.