I am wondering what you think about the abilities of a Tiger compared to the BMW GS, mostly off road capabilities.
I don't see much difference between the two, yet most in the press totally omit the Tiger when referring to the big adventure bikes. To me, they have about the same abilities off road. They have very similiar demensions, including tires.
I ride an 05 Tiger and my friend rides an 05 GS. We seem to be able to go the same places with or without the same difficulties. His might have a little more comfort on the long tours, not really sure about that. My Tiger can haul just about the same amount of weight and gets a little better gas mileage.
Every article I read about big trailies mentions the BMW GS and the newer bikes to the fold like the Ducati Multistrada or the new Guzzi, but never any mention of the Tiger. It could be that Triumph doesn't sell a true dualy any more, but there are a lot of Tigers still running around.
It's as though the Tigers dropped off the edge of the earth in 2007.
It is my belief that the Tiger is every bit as good as a BMW GS, at a considerable discount in price and that is why I bought a Tiger.
BMW pays for more press time. I don't know that for a fact but that is the way industry works so most likely if Triumph wanted to push a DS bike (which they don't make) they could get mentioned as often. Magazines are not a good source for unbiased opinions. Most opinions are bought. O.K. off my soap box.
The 06 and earlier Tigers do what the GS does and with as much comfort or more. Tigers suffer from a lack of off road accessories compared to the Beemer as well.
I believe the biggest problem is that they no longer make the Girly/Steamer and to top it off they were never meant to be DS bikes anyway.
Quote from: "HappyMan"...they no longer make the Girly/Steamer and to top it off they were never meant to be DS bikes anyway.
Steamer not DS? Can see that in the Girly but not as much so with the Steamer. Granted Steamer's weight lends it more to an Adv. Bike type DS more so than the Enduro type DS of yesteryears.
Both bikes are too heavy for real offroad riding. Heck my cousin in California who often rides offroad in the Desolation Wilderness keeps telling me that even a KLR's weight isn't really appropriate for that kind of riding, either and that bike weighs like, what, 150 kg?
So what we're really talking about is some bad roads with some ruts and hopefully not too much mud with these bikes.
But here's the thing about BMW: I think the idea that you're going to take a $23,000 motorcycle like the R1200GS Adventure and ride it where you could drop one of those jugs onto a rock seems crazy to anyone who isn't filthy rich. The only thing against the Steamer and Girly is how difficult it is to fit crash guards onto it. And as we can tell there are ways to get around that, too.
Quote from: "coachgeo"Quote from: "HappyMan"...they no longer make the Girly/Steamer and to top it off they were never meant to be DS bikes anyway.
Steamer not DS? Can see that in the Girly but not as much so with the Steamer. Granted Steamer's weight lends it more to an Adv. Bike type DS more so than the Enduro type DS of yesteryears.
Triumph didn't intend for the Steamer or the Girly to go off road.....
From the Steamer manual.....
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/WARNING.jpg)
You are comparing the Tiger to the 1200GS, right? It does not compare to the 800GS no way no how. But it is over $10K cheaper than an 800GS.
Quote from: "MikeBenzon"...most in the press totally omit the Tiger when referring to the big adventure bikes. ...
Well, sure, the transition from Girly to Roadie pretty much knocked Triumph out of the DS sphere. But your statement would have been correct even back when the Tiger was "the next wonderful machine", and as much DS-worthy as any GS. Have you ever noticed that in ALL automotive and motorcycle magazines the amount of praise for any product is directly proportional to the purchased advertising? I take that back. Every word printed in those rags is bought and paid for, and then you buy your copy. (Oops, I said it again.)
It occurs to me that in this forum over the years, whenever someone upgraded from a GS to a Girly, the comment was always that the Girly was equal or superior. I did, and I still believe it.
I like how the 12GS doesn't dive under brakes, I like it's lower center of gravity in tight snotty going and I LOVE the shaft drive and cross spoked tubless wheels. In all of these things it is superior to the Tiger.
The Tiger has a nicer, smoother, more powerful engine charateristic. I think it handles fast gravel a little better than the BM and for the yawing price gap I'll settle for it's other deficiencies, which can be overcome by setup and riding style.
The Beemer is not so much better that two riders of equal ability won't be able to stay close in the dirt. Much of the Beemer's legendary capability it just that: legend.
in a deep sandy creek bed it is just as much of an unmanagable pig as Tigger.
Quote from: "Colonel Nikolai"Both bikes are too heavy for real offroad riding.
Come on, Colonel! You don't believe that, do you? :D
QuoteCome on, Colonel! You don't believe that, do you?
Well... Maybe this is more about me and how I suck offroad: I once took my Sprint on a dirt road with some ruts. It got high-centered in about 100 feet and I barely got it back to the road. The Tiger will do much better in the same circumstances ... much better. But I'm not holding my breath beyond that.
Furthermore, when I think of "real offroad", I think of bikes that can fly and come down without coming apart. I can't imagine doing that with a tiger.
Quote from: "flux"Quote from: "Colonel Nikolai"Both bikes are too heavy for real offroad riding.
Come on, Colonel! You don't believe that, do you? :D
I believe it. But most of you are confusing "off pavement" vs. "off road". You will simply not get Tigers or GS's off road very far without costing lots of $$ in repairs. I know, I have tried.
Off pavement they are both similar, but I give the nod to the Tiger. I test rode both extensively and bought the Tiger. Money was not an object (at the time :cry: ).
(http://sasquatch.smugmug.com/Other/Silver-City-2004-Kranz/dcp01901/9684409_iQha4-L.jpg)
An earlier poster liked the GS shaft drive better than chain. While I like the concept of shaft, I do not like the extra weight, complexity, and unreliability of them. GSes have a well documented history of leaving you up the proverbial "Crap Creek" in the middle of nowhere when it decides to puke the final drive. I can visually check my chain and tell when it is getting close and any MC shop can order me in sprockets and a chain overnight if they dont already have the parts in stock. From one who likes to travel way off the beaten path, this is of major importance to me.
(http://sasquatch.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Glacier-2009/DSCN2851/586464080_Kifi2-L.jpg)
Off pavement I would also give the nod to the Tiger. Not that I have any experience with a 1200GS but I think the specs and postings speak for themselves.
Now for Off Road I would love to pick up an 800GS. Just not enough cash laying around to do so.
tett
I've test driven the F800GS too and loved it. I was trying to figure out how I could buy one when a Steamer came into my purview. The 800GS is a better bike for the tough stuff offroad, but I just couldn't get my head around the 12k I would need to buy one.
Quote from: "Colonel Nikolai"I've test driven the F800GS too and loved it. I was trying to figure out how I could buy one when a Steamer came into my purview. The 800GS is a better bike for the tough stuff offroad, but I just couldn't get my head around the 12k I would need to buy one.
Frankly the F800GS weight is in the ball park of the KTM 950/990ADV (and price). The 800 has less power and a crappy front suspension. If you really want to go off road but still be able to carry loads and travel distances, I'd be looking at the big thumpers: 640ADV, 690E, DR650, XR650, TE610/630, XChallenge. That 300-350lb range is kind of the sweet spot--light enough to handle off-road, but heavy enough to ride a distance.
I've taken the Tiger off pavement and off road, and it did it, but with the 640ADV, I decided to repurpose my Tiger as a street tourer, with enough dirt road capability to go that last mile if need be.
Geof
Quote from: "abruzzi"I've taken the Tiger off pavement and off road, and it did it, but with the 640ADV, I decided to repurpose my Tiger as a street tourer, with enough dirt road capability to go that last mile if need be.
Geof
Exactly. I now have a Tiger for street/mild off pavement and a KTM LC4 enduro 640 for anything more technical.
Quote from: "Sasquatch"Quote from: "abruzzi"I've taken the Tiger off pavement and off road, and it did it, but with the 640ADV, I decided to repurpose my Tiger as a street tourer, with enough dirt road capability to go that last mile if need be.
Geof
Exactly. I now have a Tiger for street/mild off pavement and a KTM LC4 enduro 640 for anything more technical.
:iagree
this goes where tigers can only dream of .................
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/places/101_1863.jpg)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/places/PA100003.jpg)
When Tiger was my only bike I took it anywhere I wanted to go. Actually it does much better off road that people give it a credit. It will definitely go everywhere GS will.
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n223/fano1/Dell%205-4-08/th_Dell5-4-08.jpg) (http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n223/fano1/Dell%205-4-08/?action=view¤t=Dell5-4-08.flv)
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n223/fano1/Dell%203-22-08/IMG_4355.jpg)
Since then I got couple other bikes and now I try to take the best bike for the occasion.
I Google Translated the name Fano.....it means "Balls of Steel" in Navajo. You 'da man Fano! 8) You still inspire me.....
Quote from: "Mustang":iagree
this goes where tigers can only dream of .................
:shock: Now you have me considering one...
http://wichita.craigslist.org/mcy/1523444618.html (http://wichita.craigslist.org/mcy/1523444618.html)
Quote from: "EvilBetty"Quote from: "Mustang":iagree
this goes where tigers can only dream of .................
:shock: Now you have me considering one...
http://wichita.craigslist.org/mcy/1523444618.html (http://wichita.craigslist.org/mcy/1523444618.html)
For $2500 I would bite. We never see such nice deals in Canada.
tett
Fantastic video Fano!
Brings to mind getting my Tigger up various hill or through creek beds, but often with a little help from my friends 8)
Great all roads bike, stick with that
Whenever I ride dirt in a group with GS riders, they nearly always lay down for a rest quite often.
I've never dumped my Tiger on dirt roads....yet but I'm sure that if I took it to places like Fano and Sasquatch do, it would be resting quite often too. However, having been bitten by the lack of reliability of an R100GS and seen to many modern BMWs with problems I'll vote unreservedly for a Girly Tiger any day.
Quote from: "Sasquatch"Exactly. I now have a Tiger for street/mild off pavement and a KTM LC4 enduro 640 for anything more technical.
I think you have hit the nail on the head there, can't speak for other languages but "off pavement" doesn't figure in biking Queens English (not that I can speak it) "off tarmac" doesn't really have the same ring to it "farm track" is probably the closest expersion we have but that has connotations of tractors etc.
Maybe Triumph will go the way Land Rover have, moving the Roadie "upmarket" to compete with the new Multistrada (150 bhp HS!) and bring in a Freelander (Tiger Track 675?) maybe this is a sub cat of the other thread.
QuoteMaybe Triumph will go the way Land Rover have.....
First thought when I read that..... was being owned by Tata.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Bring on the Enfields.
Quote from: "oxnsox"QuoteMaybe Triumph will go the way Land Rover have.....
First thought when I read that..... was being owned by Tata.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Bring on the Enfields.
I was thinking diesel... :roll:
(Range Rover Vogue V8 Diesel, all the car you could ever want, pound-for-pound the best car in the world - Jeremy Clarkson)
:roll: left myself wide open there.
I don't always agree with JC but he does make a good point on that score, or is it just me being an LR anorack :lol:
Tata were trying to off load their recent purchases last time I looked. Enfield are doing quite nicely and about to increase their production facilities, if they can make it up the Himalayas in the hands of relative novices there must be something there.
Back OT, sort of. Does anyone know what the respective weights are of the 675 engine as opposed to the 1050? I think I have seen this question asked elsewhere but not a response.
Let's face it...both are 80% street bikes. Just watch the shocks on the GS break and give up on dirt roads through out africa with Ewan & Charley on Long way down. They have a parts truck following. My old' SP600 with a kick starter would a gone the distance with half the weight. I wouldn't think of taking the tiger on anything than a nice bladed dirt road. If you drop it, well lets just say ...put it on its side gentley in the garage...now try and pick it up alone. NOW imagine it is 'down hill' the wrong way. I am in awe of some of the pics on this and ADV sight with guys off road on Tigers. I ain't no slouch at 6-2 200lbs either.
Quote from: "cwdrifter"Let's face it...both are 80% street bikes. Just watch the shocks on the GS break and give up on dirt roads through out africa with Ewan & Charley on Long way down. They have a parts truck following. My old' SP600 with a kick starter would a gone the distance with half the weight. I wouldn't think of taking the tiger on anything than a nice bladed dirt road. If you drop it, well lets just say ...put it on its side gentley in the garage...now try and pick it up alone. NOW imagine it is 'down hill' the wrong way. I am in awe of some of the pics on this and ADV sight with guys off road on Tigers. I ain't no slouch at 6-2 200lbs either.
Speaking as one who's spent 15 minutes pinned to the garage wall by my kitty, I know what you mean.... :oops:
Yeah, you are right. I've spent some time in the garage bench-pressing the tiger off me and can also confirm it's not light. :oops:
(however this really made my daughter laugh - no sympathy for old men in my house...)
Somehow it's tallness / top heavyness makes it really hard to lift up too.
Less weight please Triumph. 50kgs less in fact.
stop it, I'm having flashbacks of me on the shed floor, bike balanced on a block of wood and me wishing I had another pair of hands!!! :D
Fitting a centre stand by any chance...? :wink:
Dropped the 955 in Alaska twice, neither time could I pick it up, on the Dempster two of us did it, later on it took thre of us! Some kind soul stopped to lend a hand :oops:
Well this guy didn't read the hype and it appears he went where many of the others have been bragging about and "he" had no problems, "or back up" like the Beemer's had!
Have a look here then: http://www.triumphrat.net/news-room/128 ... china.html (http://www.triumphrat.net/news-room/128064-winning-bike-of-the-month-triumph-tiger-uk-to-china.html)
It's not so much the bike but the rider, in my humble opinion. :roll:
If you want a true on/off roader you have to do it yourself. A friend of mine enlisted my help turning his Husqvarna (I think it was a 540) dirt bike into a roadworthy trailie. It must have had a 36" or higher seat. That thing would carry 100 pounds or more in the bags he fitted and would go places no other bike I've met would go. It was a monster! And it was no slouch on the road. There wasn't a 650 enduro on the street that could hold a candle to that old Husky. If I wanted to do SERIOUS off roading that's exactly what I would do. As a matter of fact, I just might start looking for one.
Yeah, Like I said my 1985 Suzuki SP600 is a perfect bike for really going back roading. I would not say it is an 'off road' bike as it is 'heavy' compared to a true dirt bike (metal tank)...but if I got the drill out and made some holes....Like old flat track racers say, nothing lighter than a hole. I just need to get some 'panniers' on the Suzy and she would be a class 1 adventure bike. LOVE MY TRUMPET though...she handles great..
stayed with a MV Agusta f1 throught the twisties in the Sierras...scrapped a peg too...THAT gets your attention.
I've been back riding for five years and have owned my tiger three years. I rode dirt bikes growing up and took 25 years off of riding. I bought my Girly because I liked the price, the look, the engine, the riding position, and the unique look. I could not have afforded a 1200GS like my brother and brother-in-law both have.
Here's my evidence that the Tiger is at least as good as the GS.
1) my brother and brother-in-law both have swapped bikes with me and they're both convinced that they are quite similar in capability
2) I've taken my Tiger up a rutted, switch-back dirt road with ruts, washouts, deep gravel, and you name it. This was a four-wheel drive-only road. Not a single-track but a decent challenge for any dual-sport bike. I rode it like a dirt-bike. If I set my speed correctly, it bucked and moved under me just like a dirt-bike is supposed to. I felt the weight and had to take care but it did it. The softness of the springs/shocks made this possible and from what I saw of some of the GS shocks they would not have been able to carry the same speed I did.
3) I spent a day riding with a 1200GS adventure, two 1200GS, and one F650GS Dakar. These guys had been riding dirt and gravel roads quite frequently and I decided to tag along once. They kept a very fast pace and I kept up. It took me a little time to figure out how to throw the bars sideways into a turn to get the Tiger to do what I wanted it. The weight of the bike made it damn tiring but it did it with an ease that surprised me. I was freaking tired and spent by the end of the day but the bike was not the limiting factor. Keep in mind this was the first long day of dirt I had ridden in 25 years. I'm not a great dirt rider but I was able to make the Tiger do what needed to be done.
4) If you are really focused on dirt, you can put a smaller front sprocket on the Tiger to get way better low-speed maneuverability than the GS with its non-adjustable shaft drive.
In my mind, the 11-1200GS legend is way overblown beyond what the bike should do. I'm convinced that the rider makes the most difference. To be sure, the height and weight of the Tiger make it a real handful but it can be used at least as well as the 1200GS.
I love my Tiger. It brings a smile to my face each and every time I ride it.
However, there are a few realities that I must face:
1) it's top-heavy and you need to be aware of that at all times.
2) there is not a big used farkles market (as there is for the BMWs and KTMs) so farkling costs twice as much. Maybe we Tiger owners are just cheap bastids ;-).
3) the suspension needs to be reworked to fit a 225 pounder plus some gear and that costs too damn much.
But I still ride it with a grin!
This month's 'Bike Magazine' has a three-way shoot out between the KTM 990, BMW R1200GS and our own Triumph Tiger.
Guess what was rated 'first'? :lol:
Mind you this looks good....
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2010/February/feb2510-2010-yamaha-super-tenere-technical-details/
Had a yam ten a while back and loved it....
£13,500 for the special edition with the boxes :shock:
261 kegs wet :shock:
In some ways its not so bad as Triumph was probably using wonky scales when it claimed Girlies as 215 dry, but I was hoping Yamaha, with the benefit of sitting back and watching everyone elses effort, might have come up with something a bit more competitive
I want a tiger that uses the 675 power plant and weighs 180 kilos, but I'm dreamin' and this is a whole 'nuther thread. :lol:
Quote from: "nickcalne"This month's 'Bike Magazine' has a three-way shoot out between the KTM 990, BMW R1200GS and our own Triumph Tiger.
Guess what was rated 'first'? :lol:
Just read this quote from the same feature, "I've already nabbed the Triumph [for the ride home] - it's the only one that's capable of powering my heated jacket, gloves and trousers; the BMW can't hack it and switches it's power socket off and the KTYM just blows fuses".
:ImaPoser
Triumph must've done something right since the Girly days..... :lol:
If you've just started up a 1050 and reved it up(never mind ridden one),you'll know they've done a bit more than being able to use a heated jacket,the motor is a league better than the 955,most of it down to Jap fuel injection,what knackered the 1050 was the daft dual seat,very unscientific i know,but i see hoards of 1050's on my travels in the UK,and hardly ever see a 955.
I meant electrics-wise, refering to the number of folks on here that have had charging issues, and the comment was meant to be tongue-in-cheek hence the: :ImaPoser.
The 1050's clearly a quantum leap forward on the 955, the clue's in it being rated best all-round road bike in the UK motorcycle Press over and over again.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"The 1050's clearly a quantum leap forward on the 955, the clue's in it being rated best all-round road bike in the UK motorcycle Press over and over again.
I think you forgot the irony emoticon......
I've been trying to get a subscription for a few months, they just refuse to accept their overseas subscription web process just does not work.
Better get the wife to buy me a copy, don't know why since I already own one :roll: just wish I could get more time to ride it. :( still glad to hear it came out well.
The worry I see is that because the Sprint ST has been the acknowledged best in class (new VFR doesn't look like changing that), the 675 Daytona is up there with the leading track tools, the Street just hasn't been equaled yet and the 1050 we all know is the equal of all the big trailies (roadies) and better in quite a few areas, when the mags repeatedly state this they get accused of being Brit biased in the letter columns :?
I am dying to see what triumph come up with next, must be due a revamped lineup soon :new_popcornsmiley
Having just gotten back from putting 300 miles or so on a 2009 Tiger, I love the bike except they seem to have skimped on the front suspension.
:? Could do better but how much more would you pay? It is pretty adjustable, how many other bikes can say that?
I rode a roadie for a few days last year, not sure the suspension's too bad. Possibly the head angle is a bit steep and supermotoey - it make the front feel slightly flighty....and fun!
Meh... I thought when having the bike heaved over in a hard turn on a bumpy surface, the tubes seemed to seize in the stanchions a little too much. There will be some, to be sure, but I was expecting more. And yeah, having that kind of front end is costly, I know. Since I'm riding 14 year old machines that do this, I guess a brand new machine I'm expecting it not to. Perhaps unfair.
Quote from: "Colonel Nikolai"Meh... I thought when having the bike heaved over in a hard turn on a bumpy surface, the tubes seemed to seize in the stanchions a little too much. There will be some, to be sure, but I was expecting more. And yeah, having that kind of front end is costly, I know. Since I'm riding 14 year old machines that do this, I guess a brand new machine I'm expecting it not to. Perhaps unfair.
rental bike ? not set up properly would be my guess
Col Nick, maybe we need more testing time. Triumph should lend us a roadie each for the summer for us to really investigate!
Mustang, you're right. It was a rental machine. And I did find it a little more beaten than I expected. Left the rental outfit with a shorted left front signal too: probably the most important signal on the bike. Not up to their usual quality, IMHO.
Quote from: "nickcalne"Col Nick, maybe we need more testing time. Triumph should lend us a roadie each for the summer for us to really investigate!
You, sir are brilliant! :D
Quote from: "nickcalne"Col Nick, maybe we need more testing time. Triumph should lend us a roadie each for the summer for us to really investigate!
Come up when I'm next home and we can swap rides for a bit 8) JD come over and experience a country full of bends :wink: yup we're all a bit bent in the UK before you say it :P
mmmmmm, B roads.
I'm with an earlier poster's comments about the ridiculous seat on the roadie.
Apart from that though, brillient! If my fortunes changed and I couldn't hang on to both the Girly and Daytona I would probably replace them both with a roadie
I just hope those rumours and blurry photos of a more gravel road Tigger are founded, otherwise it might have to be a defection over to Yamaha's new Superten