When I purchased my Tiger, the dealer set the chain tension at about 1.3 inches while on the side stand. But when I rode two up, I could tell the ride was stiff.
A fellow biker mentioned that the chain tension should be set while a person of my weight sitting on the bike. I don't think the manual didn't make a distinction. Can someone enlighten me on the proper procedure on chain slack. Should it be set with the bike preloaded or while it's on the side stand?
Thanks
My manual says to set the chain slack to about 1-5/8 inches when sitting on the side stand. I have found that is to tight. If put my weight on the seat at that adjustment the chain is tight. Ideally you want about 1/4 to 1/2 inch slack at the chains tightest point. I reach down and wiggle the chain when I am sitting on the seat. it is good to roll the bike to find the tightest point on the chain. I really need to get it adjusted right then take a hard measurement off the swingarm, so I can adjust it right the 1st time on the centerstand.
Hope this helped
Quote from: "Flying Tiger"When I purchased my Tiger, the dealer set the chain tension at about 1.3 inches while on the side stand. But when I rode two up, I could tell the ride was stiff.
A fellow biker mentioned that the chain tension should be set while a person of my weight sitting on the bike. I don't think the manual didn't make a distinction. Can someone enlighten me on the proper procedure on chain slack. Should it be set with the bike preloaded or while it's on the side stand?
Thanks
I found for my 95 the factory recommendations were useless. Put the weight you would normally have on the bike(ie: rider and passenger) set the slack so the bottom run can move up and down a bit(maybe 1.5" overall) put on the centerstand and check the bottom run in several places for excessive slop or tight spots. Recheck several spots around the length of the chain with the bike laden for tight spots. If you get it so it has no tight spots when the suspension is compressed and no places where it slaps other bike bits or can snatch or hop a sprocket whith the suspension extended you are good. Sorry, I don't bother with precise measurements and it is more of a feel or judgement thing, but it aint rocket science. Following the book yielded a tight chain with the suspension compressed and also after a long slog when the chain got hot, so I don't use the book for that anymore.
OK, thank you for the tips and additional information on the chain tension adjustment. I appreciate your help.
As Red said,forget the book!!,sit on the bike lean down and check the chain with the correct wieght on it,i've found the setting for rideing one up is to tight two up, and vice versa.
Without getting all anal,the reason!! the Tiger doesn't(900i-955i) have a linkage system like most Jap bike bikes so it isn't a Riseing Rate set up,and hence you have to ajust it for the correct wieght,a little gem that Triumph are happy to ignore.
The beauty is with the Triumph ajusters(05 excluded!!) it's a 30 second job.
Chris
Quote from: "Chris Canning"Without getting all anal,the reason!! the Tiger doesn't(900i-955i) have a linkage system like most Jap bike bikes so it isn't a Riseing Rate set up,and hence you have to ajust it for the correct wieght,a little gem that Triumph are happy to ignore.
Chris
Chris,
Whether it's a rising rate system or not has nothing to do with chain adjustment.
A chain should be adjusted to give a bit of slack when the centres of the gear box sprocket, the swingarm pivot and the wheel spindle are all in a straight line. This is where the chain is going to be at its tightest.
Usually though it is impossible to get your bike into this position because the bike normally rides with the wheel spindle lower than that line so manufacturers have to suggest a different method of checking it. i.e. so many mm of slack when sitting on the side stand.
Black Tiger
We'll have to disagree!!!,all the Jap bikes have a linkage system and thats why you don't have bugger about from one to two up,the problem is the fact that Triumph do frame to swingarm direct,most bikes that go that route are real offroaders so the problem of more wieght(two up) doesn't come into it.
Even Kawasaki in the late seventies early eighties had hassle with their Unitrack Motocrossers untill they got the linkage ratio right .
Chris
Quote from: "Blacktiger"
A chain should be adjusted to give a bit of slack when the centres of the gear box sprocket, the swingarm pivot and the wheel spindle are all in a straight line. This is where the chain is going to be at its tightest.
Usually though it is impossible to get your bike into this position because the bike normally rides with the wheel spindle lower than that line so manufacturers have to suggest a different method of checking it. i.e. so many mm of slack when sitting on the side stand.[/quoteHave two people sit on your bike and take a look at the swingarm angle :roll:
Tigers need a little more slack in the chain than you might be used to with a street bike, probably because of the amount of suspension travel and the length of the swingarm.
Quote from: "Chris Canning"The beauty is with the Triumph ajusters(05 excluded!!) it's a 30 second job.
Chris
Chris
I have never adjusted the chain on a Tiger before and although I have an 04 bike I seem to have an 05 manual. I checked my chain last night and it is too tight. Could you run me through the procedure including how to keep the wheel alignment correct and also the torque settings. Thanks in advance.
Bob
Hi Bob
It's a doddle!!,bike on center stand,undo both locking bolts on the excentric ajusters,put 12mm allen key in the either side it doesn't matter and ajust accordingly,no need to worry about wheel alignment,thats a problem only the 05 owners have!!!,lock up both ajuster bolts,takes longer to get your tool kit out than it does to do it.
Chris
Quote from: "Chris Canning"Black Tiger
We'll have to disagree!!!,all the Jap bikes have a linkage system and thats why you don't have bugger about from one to two up,the problem is the fact that Triumph do frame to swingarm direct,most bikes that go that route are real offroaders so the problem of more wieght(two up) doesn't come into it.
Even Kawasaki in the late seventies early eighties had hassle with their Unitrack Motocrossers untill they got the linkage ratio right .
Chris
NO, NO, NO! Chris, you're really showing your ignorance here!
Chain tension has NOTHING to do with linkages and ALL to do with the way the swingarm swings in relation to the pivot and the gearbox sprocket.
The linkages DO NOT alter the swingarm length.
As I wrote before. The maximum chain length occurs when the gearbox sprocket, the swingarm pivot and the wheel spindle are all in line. This has NOTHING to do with linkages at all. If fact , you could set your chain tension with no linkages or shock absorber fitted to the bike!!!!!!!
You also contradict yourself......"most bikes that go that route are real off-roaders" So did Kawasaki change from a "unilever" to a direct system? NO!
It's only VERY recently that KTM with WP assistance went to their "PDS" system.
Just about every other "off-roader" has a rising rate system of some kind.
Now go away and study the geometry and design of your bike and come back and acknowledge that you don't know what you're talking about.
Quote from: "RedMenace"Have two people sit on your bike and take a look at the swingarm angle :roll: .
Perhaps you need to adjust the preload first!! You know? To restore the correct ride height!
Or are one of those twits that adjusts the headlamp when they put a passenger on it! And then wonders why it doesn't steer the same as when solo.
You know. I'm amazed at how many owners don't know the first thing about how to set up and adjust THEIR bike.
Now, some people might think that my last two posts are a bit confrontational. Well, go out to the garage and sit down and study the design of the bike. Think it through, before replying with a hot head.
I know I'm right.
Trust me, I'm a mechanical engineering designer.
Quote from: "Blacktiger"Now, some people might think that my last two posts are a bit confrontational. Well, go out to the garage and sit down and study the design of the bike. Think it through, before replying with a hot head.
I know I'm right.
Trust me, I'm a mechanical engineering designer.
An engineer? -that accounts for your social skills.
As for setting the the preload, come over here and have a look at my bike before you start flapping your gums. Buy me a custom shock, a bit longer and stiffer springs and we can talk about it, but for my application additional preload will not accomplish anything positive.
What I was getting at, and if you look at a Steamer, you will see that I am not far off the mark, the swing arm and sprockets line up about the way you recommend at near full compression and a fully laden bike will get you close enuf that, with some slack, you can avoid setting it up with the chain too tight. Recheck for excessive slop with the suspension extended and it will be good enough. It doesn't take an engineer to adjust your chain. And the manual is wrong for this bike.
Quote from: "Chris Canning"Hi Bob
It's a doddle!!,bike on center stand,undo both locking bolts on the excentric ajusters,put 12mm allen key in the either side it doesn't matter and ajust accordingly,no need to worry about wheel alignment,thats a problem only the 05 owners have!!!,lock up both ajuster bolts,takes longer to get your tool kit out than it does to do it.
Chris
Any idea on the torque settings for the locking bolts? Does the wheel spindle need to be loosened?
Not wishing to put any more fuel on the fire of this debate on suspension but as someone said earlier the chain slack should be the same for any load. The preload adjustment is there so that the static sag of the suspension can be set. The ride height should be kept the same irrespective of load.
Bob
Quote from: "Badger"Any idea on the torque settings for the locking bolts? Does the wheel spindle need to be loosened?
Not wishing to put any more fuel on the fire of this debate on suspension but as someone said earlier the chain slack should be the same for any load. The preload adjustment is there so that the static sag of the suspension can be set. The ride height should be kept the same irrespective of load.
Bob
Indeed! And too much preload will simply bind the spring. Which is why to set my bike up properly for the wide variety of loads and road surfaces I inflict on it with my sidecar, I really need a different shock and spring.But I am am too cheap to do that just now.
what our friend from St Leonards on the Sea and I were discussing(and, remarkably, for all the hullabaloo, we seem to agree upon), is that the tension does change throughout the arc the swingarm describes.
My manual states the torque spec for the eccentric pinch bolts as 35Nm. It is probably a good idea to pay some attention to that as there have been reports of cracked swingarms which Triumph has laid to overtightened pinch bolts.
You shouldn't need to loosen the axle spindle to adjust this.
I put a stripe of nail polish across the eccentric and swing arm after it is snugged down so I can tell at a glance if it has slipped during use.
By the way another way to compress the suspension(one I haven't tried) is to use a ratcheting tie down strap over the seat and around the wheel (or to floor hooks) to snug it down
Cheers for the info Red Menace.
Bob
Quote from: "RedMenace"[
What I was getting at, and if you look at a Steamer, you will see that I am not far off the mark, the swing arm and sprockets line up about the way you recommend at near full compression .
I wasn't recommending anything. I was stating a fact :-
The chain will be at its tightest when all three are in line.
I went on to say that; that is why manufacturers give a different method of checking the tension because it is unlikely that you'll achieve that position on the side stand.
Any slack in the chain does, however, have to accomodate the maximum length at this "in line" position even if it is at full compression.
See we are actually agreed on this point.
Hi Gents
BT's ranting and raveing has distracted things a little!!!,when you read the Tiger hand book it's full of disclaimers,but never says a thing about setting chain tension for one up or two,as i do most of my rideing two up,what little i do one up,just put up with chain a little loose,but you certainley will not get away with it the otherway round.
Bob What i forgot to say,was after setting your chain tension,get on the bike and lean down and check with your hand,if you think that sounds a pain,try it two up with a fully loaded bike,if you want to alter the preload etc,just means checking the chain again,when you've done it a few times it can be done in seconds,in fact i bought a spare 12mm allen key for when i do it at home saves the hassle of takeing the seat off,and getting the tools out.
Chris
Just in case anyone is interested I set the slack to 50mm midway between the sprockets with the bike on the centrestand. Now when I sit on the bike a lean down it feels just about right.
Bob
Hi Bob
Just in case you haven't already done it,now you have set the chain tension(don't get carried away with how many mm,just that it feels right) get someone to sit on the back,and check the tension again,you'll get some idea how much difference it makes.
Chris
Quote from: "Chris Canning"Hi Bob
Just in case you haven't already done it,now you have set the chain tension(don't get carried away with how many mm,just that it feels right) get someone to sit on the back,and check the tension again,you'll get some idea how much difference it makes.
Chris
Thanks for the advice Chris. I'll try that when the missus gets home. I wasn't so much worried about how many mm except that once I got the feel right I wanted to know how much slack there was when on the centre stand so that I could reproduce it in the future.
Bob
Quote from: "Blacktiger"Quote from: "RedMenace"[
What I was getting at, and if you look at a Steamer, you will see that I am not far off the mark, the swing arm and sprockets line up about the way you recommend at near full compression .
I wasn't recommending anything. I was stating a fact :-
The chain will be at its tightest when all three are in line.
I went on to say that; that is why manufacturers give a different method of checking the tension because it is unlikely that you'll achieve that position on the side stand.
Any slack in the chain does, however, have to accomodate the maximum length at this "in line" position even if it is at full compression.
See we are actually agreed on this point.
I knew you weren't "recommending" anything-I thought about editing that line but it proved cumberson and I didn't choose to spend the time-I figured anyone but a nitpicking twat would understand my meaning :?
It seems our real difference here is I was trying to describe how one might actually check the chain tension, rather than rely upon what some engineer had come up with :wink:
You went on to say"... that is why manufacturers give a different method of checking the tension because it is unlikely that you'll achieve that position on the side stand."
I agree with you here as well( Damn! I HATE saying that :wink: ) And all I was saying was:
a) the method and spec given in my manual results in an excessively taut chain
b) If you load the bike or otherwise compress the suspension you can approximate the alignment of the swing arm and sprockets at maximum distance and so check your chain at or very near the tightest point in the swingarm arc.
Were I a more generous person I would ignore the insulting tone you took and admit that, perhaps, my suspension is imperfectly set up. But I am not, so SOD OFF! :P
I think Badger has the right idea-once you have determined how much slack you want in the chain, remeasure it on the centerstand or sidestand or however is convienient for you so you can easily check and set the tension in the future.
Honestly, I usually just lift the bottom run of the chain with the toe of my boot to spot check the chain tension. I do check it more carefully whenever I actually adjust it and before and after a long or dirty ride, but generally I am pretty casual about it. Of course, here in the degenerate colonies we still measure in inches, superstitously mistrusting the metric system as a vile invention of the French...
When I got my chain adjusted right, I cut a board thst just fits between the chain and the swingarm at about the midpoint with it on the centerstand. To ajust the chain now I just slip the board (good hardwood) in swing the eccentric up tight and torque up the eccentric bolts. I also check to make sure I have the chain at it's tightest point. I adjusted my chain according to the manual for about a year before I figured out that it was way to tight. That 1st chain really stretched funny. It got to the point were I had over an inch difference in slack between the tight point and the loose point.
Good idea Norton! :)
Quote from: "Chris Canning"Hi Gents
....when you read the Tiger hand book it's full of disclaimers,but never says a thing about setting chain tension for one up or two,as i do most of my rideing two up,what little i do one up,just put up with chain a little loose,but you certainley will not get away with it the otherway round...
Chris
Hi Chris!
I beleive Badger and others are correct in observing:"...the chain slack should be the same for any load"
If you ride two up, particularly if your suspension is not set up for the additional weight(eh BT?), you will spend more time at the tighter end of the swing arm travel and so will notice the chain being tighter more easily. If it is too tight it will get hot and your shifting will be notchy and you might even wreck your transmission. You don't want that. But even riding solo, you will be inflicting stress on your chain and transmission when ever you compress the suspension on bumps and accelerating and such. So you want to determine the proper slack and set the chain up the same regardless of the load you are carrying.
What you want to change for two up riding is your suspension set up. I believe Black Tiger is itching to start a thread regarding suspension tune. I, for one, am looking forward to his insights. No, really, I am. Suspension tuning can be confusing for two wheels and it is even moreso with three. Somebody who has an inkling, start a thread!
Hi RM
I have to say old chap you certainley have a British sense of humour!!!,for a Colonial!!!! to use the word Twat Hmmm very understanding!!.
On less important things!,i can remember setting of on holiday on my first 900i,20 miles down the road thinking,shit there's something wrong here!!,pulls up tell wife'y to stay on the bike lean down check the chain,it's like a banjo string,and i'd only checked it before setting off,re-ajusted it and did 3000 miles in the next two weeks without touching it again,it's the first time i'd ever had that problem,haveing said that i'd been rideing Jap bikes for the previous 31 years,and hence why i delved into it more.
As for suspension??? i just use one of those cheapo Ohlins!!!
Chris
Quote from: "Chris Canning"As for suspension??? i just use one of those cheapo Ohlins!!! Chris
And if you used the pre-load adjustment on it when you carry the wife to restore the correct ride height, you shouldn't have to adjust the chain.
Quote from: "RedMenace"It seems our real difference here is I was trying to describe how one might actually check the chain tension, rather than rely upon what some engineer had come up with :wink:
Well here's my method :-....oh, I always do it on the centre stand.
Push the chain upwards in the centre of the lower run, and if the chain JUST touches the plastic chain guide underneath the front of the swingarm then I find it just right.
Oh! And by the way. Without engineers and designers, you wouldn't have a bike to ride. So pay attention. You might learn something useful.
That's all I'm TRYING to do ; dispell misconceptions and put people right. Of course, if you want to go through life doing things wrong and wondering why things break, carry on as you are.
I say chaps...calm down. No need to take these discussions so seriously. I know from experience how personally some folks can take other folks opinions. Lets have a big hug eh?
Quote from: "Blacktiger"Quote from: "RedMenace"It seems our real difference here is I was trying to describe how one might actually check the chain tension, rather than rely upon what some engineer had come up with :wink:
Well here's my method :-....oh, I always do it on the centre stand.
Push the chain upwards in the centre of the lower run, and if the chain JUST touches the plastic chain guide underneath the front of the swingarm then I find it just right.
Thanx for the info- I think I will try your method and see how it compares with mine. I bet we both end up in the useable range.
Quote from: "Blacktiger"Oh! And by the way. Without engineers and designers, you wouldn't have a bike to ride. So pay attention. You might learn something useful.
That's all I'm TRYING to do ; dispell misconceptions and put people right. Of course, if you want to go through life doing things wrong and wondering why things break, carry on as you are.
Of course you are right. But then again, it was engineers and designers that came up with the airbox, the alternator, the starter and the sprocket cover on my Tiger, so forgive me if I don't interpret "I am an engineer" to mean "my wisdom is that of God Himself" :lol:
But I am quite serious when I say I would like to hear what you and others here have to say about suspension setup. Please do start a thread!
Quote from: "RedMenace"Of course you are right. But then again, it was engineers and designers that came up with the airbox, the alternator, the starter and the sprocket cover on my Tiger,
Sounds like you've got a steamer. If so my method might not work 'coz I've got a 955i. Your geometry might be slightly different.
Worthwhile trying it though.
Quote from: "Blacktiger"Quote from: "RedMenace"......... If so my method might not work 'coz I've got a 955i. Your geometry might be slightly different.
Worthwhile trying it though.
What model year is your 955i, as I'm wondering if I can apply your method to my 2005 model Tiger?
Regards
Tim
Somewhere in this string there was a comment about not having to worry about rear wheel alignment except when referring to the 05's (which have gone back to a more traditional approach to chain adjustment mechanisms). At any rate, the comment is incorrect. You can and should check the rear wheel alignment and adjust it as per the manual. Each side IS adjustable by removing the safety clips and loosening the spindle (after loosening the clamp bolts). Once that's done you need to line up the appropriate index marks on BOTH sides independently, making sure they're both in the same place and then re-tighten the spindle. At that point you can adjust the chain as described and both sides will rotate together.
By the way, my manual says to adjust the chain with the bike on the centerstand (I have one on mine) and to adjust it to about 1 1/2" (there's a range listed, but 1 1/2" is in the middle) at it's tightest point. Seems to work okay for me. . . Better a bit too loose than too tight.
Arizona
I made that comment and i stick by it,haveing had a life time of messing with ajusterers on either side of the swingarm,and assumeing the stamped marks are correct!!!!,you've still got the hassle of doing one side and then the other on the 05,and being an old fashioned kind of person!! means useing a piece of string to line the wheels up, with the early swingarm your saved that problem,the new swing arm is nice to look at,but the ajusters are a throw back from years ago,so much for progress!!!
Chris
Quote from: "TigerTim"Quote from: "Blacktiger"Quote from: "RedMenace"......... If so my method might not work 'coz I've got a 955i. Your geometry might be slightly different.
Worthwhile trying it though.
What model year is your 955i, as I'm wondering if I can apply your method to my 2005 model Tiger?
Regards
Tim
It's a 2002. So I'm not sure about your new swingarm thing.
With regard to the wheel alignment thing. The advantage of the eccentric adjusters is that adjusting the chain tension doesn't alter the wheel alignment so long as the spindle is kept clamped up.
Quote from: "Chris Canning"the new swing arm is nice to look at,but the ajusters are a throw back from years ago,so much for progress!!!
Chris
Probably find it's a cost thing. Isn't the "new" arm also used on the RS and the 600 Daytona?