I was told today that my Tiger stinks :cry: Gal riding behind me said every time I rolled on the throttle it farted a big black cloud of smoke said it was like riding behind an old diesel bus :shock:
Guess I need to think about fixing it.
Tiger is an 03 with 90k miles on it. I am the second owner. I got it at one year old with 2500 miles on it.
It has always burned oil. Seems to be getting worse.
I've changed the breather seal in the stator cover a couple of times so I don't think that's the issue.
So what do I need to look at? Rings? Pistons? Sleeves? Valves or guides? Something else? I can do the work myself if I can find out what parts need changing.
Thanks,
Andy
Black smoke? That's not oil, that's fuel. Your bike is running way too rich.
Last valve clearance check?
Engine light on? If you have a failed sensor it could be the cause.
Quote from: "EvilBetty"Black smoke? That's not oil, that's fuel. Your bike is running way too rich.
Last valve clearance check?
Engine light on? If you have a failed sensor it could be the cause.
She said black smoke. I'll have to have someone ride it so I can follow and see for myself. It burns more than one quart of oil per 1000 miles doesn't matter what kind of oil. Tail pipe is very sooty.
It is over due for a valve check. I'll be doing that in the next week or two as soon as the shims I've ordered arrive.
Engine light is not on.
Mine too is using a similar amount of oil and backing up the inside of the can, but other than that it's fine. Changed the breather twice now. No oil in the breather hose anymore, and a little less oil being lost, but still haivng to add after every tank fill.
No puffs of smoke, no one complaining of smells.
My 03 uses a similar amount of oil and I too bought it with 2,500 on the clock. My mechanic pal reckons it wasn't run in properly and has glazed bores. There's no simple solution apart from taking the engine apart, re-boring it and running it again but not using fully synthetic oil. Sounds expensive. I reckon it's a lot cheaper to top it up with oil as it's fine apart from that.
My bike does the same black burst of smoke when getting on the gas, as my wife tells me when she's folllowing on her SV650!!
[quote="diggerT"My bike does the same black burst of smoke when getting on the gas, as my wife tells me when she's folllowing on her SV650!![/quote]
Looks like you need more smoke or ride a little quicker, then you`le lose her :wink:
Mine starts using a bit of full synth about halfway into a service cycle, which I've cured by halving my oil change intervals.
The only proviso I'd offer to those with oil burners is that if you leave it too long you risk blow by contaminating your oil and causing a longer and more expensive rebuild in the long run.
But that usually happens when an engine is burning a lot more that yours are!
Fresh oil breather seal.
Fresh Red Line full synth 15-40 oil.
1030 miles in 23 hours.
Burned 1.5 quarts of oil :(
6k more miles to turn 100k then time for something to replace the Tiger I think.
I've not even got 30K on mine and it's burning a similar amount of oil.
Quote from: "diggerT"There's no simple solution apart from taking the engine apart, re-boring it and running it again but not using fully synthetic oil. Sounds expensive. I reckon it's a lot cheaper to top it up with oil as it's fine apart from that.
IF it's just glazed bores then a "simple" honing and change rings should do the job, don't be tempted to keep the original rings. If it is glazed and you keep on the rings will fail prematurely losing their spring.
Aren't the 955 motors wet linered? If so you don't need to worry about boring, just new liners and piston rings.
However they tell me that the gasket kits and parts are prohibitively expensive.
If my motor gets tired I would consider replacing it with a second hand Sprint motor from a wreck. Plenty around and the going price for good one comes out cheaper than the parts to fix your motor. Disposable society, sad but true
I think you're right abut the wet liners, so are they not very easy to hone?
I'm off to get a bolt for my front rotors in aminute, I'll ask about gasket kit prices whilst I'm there.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"I think you're right abut the wet liners, so are they not very easy to hone?
I'm off to get a bolt for my front rotors in a minute, I'll ask about gasket kit prices whilst I'm there.
It will cost you $1000 USD to get
3 new cylinder liners
3 new piston and ring sets
a new head gasket
a tube of hylomar (to seal the liners in the block)
that's all you need to completely refresh the motor as long as the head is in good condition
and as long as the bearings are good you can do it all with engine still in frame.....................
For what is basically a new engine that's not a bad price.....
Oh, and I forgot to ask about the gasket kit price :BangHead
Quote from: "Mustang"Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"I think you're right abut the wet liners, so are they not very easy to hone?
I'm off to get a bolt for my front rotors in a minute, I'll ask about gasket kit prices whilst I'm there.
It will cost you $1000 USD to get
3 new cylinder liners
3 new piston and ring sets
a new head gasket
a tube of hylomar (to seal the liners in the block)
that's all you need to completely refresh the motor as long as the head is in good condition
and as long as the bearings are good you can do it all with engine still in frame.....................
Do I even want to guess at what labor would be for the dealer to do this? :roll:
Ah, forgot the labour price.... as I do all my own spannering :)
I haven't let the dealer do anything to this bike but tires and a head bearing adjustment. But this is something I think would make me sick to do. I couldn't see my bike splayed open that deep! :shock:
Quote from: "EvilBetty"Do I even want to guess at what labor would be for the dealer to do this? :roll:
probably about the same as parts , my guesstimate would be in the 2k price range for parts and labor for a dealer to do this ,
now you are in the realm where a used engine from a breaker becomes feasible but you won't know it's history .
It's not really a hard job to do yourself ................ :wink:
Quote from: "Mustang"Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"I think you're right abut the wet liners, so are they not very easy to hone?
I'm off to get a bolt for my front rotors in a minute, I'll ask about gasket kit prices whilst I'm there.
It will cost you $1000 USD to get
3 new cylinder liners
3 new piston and ring sets
a new head gasket
a tube of hylomar (to seal the liners in the block)
that's all you need to completely refresh the motor as long as the head is in good condition
and as long as the bearings are good you can do it all with engine still in frame.....................
There was a thread with pics either on this or the other forum of someone who did this. I remember seeing it but can't find it now.
JetDocX
http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/msg,38461 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/msg,38461)
Quote from: "EvilBetty"JetDocX
http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/msg,38461 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/msg,38461)
he didn't do this for oil burning though, he did it when he replaced the repaired head . he reused his cylinders and pistons and rings ..he only went this deep because you have to reseal the cylinder bases with hylomar when ever you remove / disturb the cylinder head .
But yeah basically this is what you do when you replace the liners and pistons and rings .
If I was sure it would fix the oil burning I'd spend the $1000 and replace the sleeves and such. With my luck I'd do the work and it would still burn oil...
Quote from: "AndyM"If I was sure it would fix the oil burning I'd spend the $1000 and replace the sleeves and such. With my luck I'd do the work and it would still burn oil...
EXACTLY! :cry:
Ok... I have tried the oil seal 3 times to no avail... I'm not to the point of dropping $1-2K on new rings and sleeves.
I'm thinking about switching up the oil. I normally would be a Mobil1 4T die hard, but seeing as is I've got so much of it flying though the engine I can't see how changing up the oil is going to hurt anything.
I'm going to start by using some cheap Rotella synthetic, but since they don't make a 10w-40, which one should I use? 5w-40 or 15w-40?
Quote from: "EvilBetty"I'm going to start by using some cheap Rotella synthetic, but since they don't make a 10w-40, which one should I use? 5w-40 or 15w-40?
I've used a lot of Rotella over the miles. The 5w-40 in the blue jug is the synthetic. It has performed the same as every other oil I've tried but seems to give me smoother shifting. This last change I tried expensive Red Line. I'm thinking of trying the cheapest dino oil I can find. Can't be much worse.
And then I rode a new GS yesterday.... :D 5k to hit 100k on my Tiger then it's decision time.
Stopped by the local Triumph dealer and talked with one of the mechanics for awhile. He is of the opinion that the issue is in the head (the bike not the one on my shoulders) valve guides and seals. Probably less $$ to fix than sleeves and pistons. And still no guarantee that it would fix the oil burning.
But at 96k miles on the bike I'm torn between fixing it or putting the money in to a new GS.........
If memory serves on the price of the 955i Tiger head. It's about the same price parts wise.
After about 100 miles I haven't burned any oil that I can tell using the Rotella. But it's only 100 miles. Before I went to Jasper I thought I had the problem licked with another oil seal (pressed by the dealer this time) but when I got down there I was a quart low. :x
I'll get to put more miles on this week... I'll keep an eye on it.
I've used mostly Rottella for the last 60-70k or so. It burns just like all the others.
We need to quit bursting each others hope bubble! :)
So I stopped by another dealer today and talked to another mechanic. I told him what it does and he's sure it's rings :? . So there we have it, it's either valve guide seals, rings, or I could probably talk to another shop and get a third answer.
Them GS's are looking better and better.................
looks like mine is turning into an oil burner too.
It sucks to have to whip the head off with only 50k on the thing
I figured 100k before any major surgery.
I think these things are very sensitive to checking the oil frequently cos if they run low then problems seem to occur
Bike hasn't been smoking as much the past few days :D
Then I added almost 2 liters of oil to top it off last night :(
Now I imagine it will be smoking again. Going to see another dealer this morning after work to talk numbers on a new GS. Will ask their mechanics about the oil burning.
Mine only smokes during warming up, and I think that's just condensation. But the oil is going somewhere and it's not on the floor. :?
That said I've done 500 miles since changing the oil with Rotella and it's still touching the stick! :shock:
This happened after I changed the last breather seal too but then it returned to it's oil eating habits shortly after...
I find that my bike burns less oil the first thousand or two miles after an oil change. With the Rotella as cheap as it is I'm doing more frequent oil changes. I'm thinking about trying the non-synth rotella as it's even cheaper and what's the worst that could happen?
I'm still toying with the theory that I paint my bike a different color it will fix it :)
Why not, you did everything else.... :lol:
Quote from: "EvilBetty"I'm still toying with the theory that I paint my bike a different color it will fix it :)
I've been toying with lifting the tankbag and rolling a new GS under it to fix the problem... :twisted:
LOL... yeah but that costs a whole lot more than buying a new engine :)
Actually I think you could get a new 1050 Tiger AND a new engine and still be ahead :)
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Why not, you did everything else.... :lol:
LOL... no... not EVERYTHING else :oops:
Quote from: "EvilBetty"LOL... yeah but that costs a whole lot more than buying a new engine :)
Actually I think you could get a new 1050 Tiger AND a new engine and still be ahead :)
I demo'd a new Tiger and it was ok. I demo'd a new GS and it was :D I'm 4k shy of 100k on my 03 and while I could put in the time and money to fix it it still won't be the bike I want for the riding I want to do.
I hear that. Are you looking at a GS or GS Adventure?
I rode and liked them both and will probably go with the Adventure.
Been putting Mobil 1 4T in her since I got her at 23k. It's been sucking oil and doing about 35mpg with TOR exhaust / tune.
Put Rotell 5w-40 Synth in her the last change. Done 1k and only eaten about 1/8 of a quart, and getting 40mpg again. (ridding it like I stole it by the way.)
Still not sold... keeping an eye on the ol' gal :)
So just how bad could it be you ask? I was fiddling with the bike and did a little experiment.
I took a clean white shop towel and held it three or four inches behind the exhaust.
Bike at operating temp. oil topped off.
Gave it about three seconds at around 6k rpm.
Before
(http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt199/andybtruckin/oil%20burning%20pig/before.jpg)
After
(http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt199/andybtruckin/oil%20burning%20pig/after.jpg)
I'm going to try that.
I had not added to the bike in a while. About 5 fill up since I had the add the 1/8th after 1k. Yesterday I had to dump a quart in, but it put it way up on the stick.
Quote from: "AndyM"After
(http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt199/andybtruckin/oil%20burning%20pig/after.jpg)
is it an actual oil mist that is coming out or is it a white cloud from burnt oil
if it is an oil mist I would suspect the valve seals and or guides as the problem .
Quote from: "Mustang"is it an actual oil mist that is coming out or is it a white cloud from burnt oil
if it is an oil mist I would suspect the valve seals and or guides as the problem .
Looks to me like a white cloud when I gas it.
Short of doing a complete motor rebuild .............
new cylinder head and liners and rings and pistons I don't think you will ever solve the oil burning
You may want to consider finding a wrecked bike to buy a used engine ,good deals are out there ........and it will extend the life of your tigger
or as you have mentioned it may be time to trade
There are several Sprint motors on ebay right now priced anywhere from 500-1000 bucks and there is this .................
an 01 tiger engine with 42 k on it and a video you can watch of the motor running
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-Tiger-955i-ENGINE-MOTOR-VIDEOS-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5190107661QQitemZ350309348961QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
See mine doesn't do that at all. Mine never smokes. I get a little steam from the exhaust at start up till she warms up and then nothing the rest of the way.
I do smell a little like I've been on a bike when I get to work, but I don't know if that's normal or not.
I need to check my breather hose again. If I've got more oil in there... I'm taking her to the dealer.
But I've also got my eye on a 2007... bit of a road trip though. :twisted:
I have to get this figured out though. At least so I can give the next owner an accurate account of what they are getting into.
Interesting idea about the Sprint motors and there do seem to be a lot of them out there. I had always thought about a Daytona motor but haven't come across one.
2500 miles I will hit 100k on my Tiger, figure just about a month from now, and I'm going to buy a BMW. Still on the fence whether it will be a GS or an RT. The Tiger will stay with me and I'll see about fixing it up , no telling how creative I'll get.....
QuoteI do smell a little like I've been on a bike when I get to work, but I don't know if that's normal or not.
Girls just hate the smell of bike breath in the morning... :lol:
rolled 98k on the OBP today :hat10
Quote from: "EvilBetty"I'm going to try that.
I had not added to the bike in a while. About 5 fill up since I had the add the 1/8th after 1k. Yesterday I had to dump a quart in, but it put it way up on the stick.
:oops: Ok apparently I forgot once again to check the oil with the bike UPRIGHT. Last check to the oil and it was actually overfilled. I've put about 200 on it since correcting the oil level and it's still holding right where I left it.
When we talk about the breather seal are we referring to the seal in the stator cover?
Quote from: "Advwannabe"When we talk about the breather seal are we referring to the seal in the stator cover?
Yes, that would be the one.
I have an 01, dad has an 04. Mine burns or throws some into the air box, his does not. We stumbled on something. His has a longer dipstick so that only 3 +/- quarts is all it takes. Mine takes 4.25 quarts.
Could Triumph have lowered the oil level to stop blowing it out into the air box?
http://tigertriple.com/forum/viewtopic. ... r+dipstick (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,6891&highlight=longer+dipstick)
Interesting reading the dipstick thread. Anyone tried a more recent one on an older model and with what results?