I have been AWOL because I moved from Texas to Florida. My bikes were in storage for a couple of months. So, now I'm trying to get them on the road and both are giving me problems. At first neither would crank at all, but I think I have figured out the problem. The moving company wanted me to run them completely dry so there was no gas in the carbs, and I think in the process I carbon'd out the plugs as things got leaner and leaner. So, now both bikes have new plugs.
Tiger - Cranks right up, but now has a terrible knocking that sounds like it's coming from the top end (or maybe the left side - it's so loud it's hard to place, and my bike has the D&Ds so it's loud as hell anyway). It's a very rhythmic 'tack-a-tack-a-tack-a" sound. It's also very loud. BTW, the bike seems to be running perfectly. I haven't had the DAR so I don't know what it sounds like, but this one had the DAR fixed 3-4k miles ago, and the sound doesn't go away at higher RPMs, which I seem to remember is symptomatic of DAR.
BMW - Runs, but doesn't want to idle, and when I held the throttle up at 4-5k rpm for a few minutes the exhaust started glowing red just outside the header before the cat. The bike seems to run fine off idle, but coughs and dies when I let go of the throttle. Do I just need to ride it to blow the crap out of the carb? Is the glowing exhaust normal if you keep it cranked for a while?
BTW, happy holidays, everybody!
sounds silly but do you have a plug that is not screwed down tight in the tiger ? seeing how you just changed them ...............
beemer sounds like shit in the pilot jet and will need to be cleaned . the glowing header , a lot of bikes will do that my bonneville will glow cherry red at night when left to idle to long with the choke on .
I guess great minds think alike - I rechecked the plugs to be sure they were tight. It sounds to me like a very loud mechanical ticking. I can't help but think it's camshaft related, but the bike seems to be running fine. I'm toying with the idea of pulling the valve cover and then turning it over to see it I can spot it. Will oil spray everywhere?
I guess I'll have to break into the BMW. I suppose it's time; that bike has been virtually trouble free for two years.
Thanks for the help.
You checked the Classic F650 FAQ's right? :lol:
How long did you run the Tiger with the loud valve noises? Is it possible the oil has not gotten there yet to make the clearances right? Is your exhaust on tight? The alternator is on the left side. Just sayin'. :cry:
I ran it for a minute or two before I got too nervous to let it run. I don;t think it's exhaust because yesterday it sounded normal. I guess I should check it just to be sure. I wouldn't mind if it is DAR - I'm worried it's something worse.
And, no, I haven't checked the F650 FAQs. Ok, ok, I'm retarded.
Well, I spent a few hours with it yesterday.
I pulled the plugs and turned it over and could still hear a slow knocking, sounded like it as coming from the right hand side of the motor beneath the head.
Then I pulled the alternator, and everything seemed normal. I turned it over again, and nothing changed from before.
Then I pulled the valve cover. I didn't measure the clearances, which I probly should have while I was in there, but everything looked normal. I turned it over again with the cover off and the noise still sounded lower in the engine.
So, I'm beginning to think it might be a connecting rod or crankshaft problem. Any thoughts on how to positively troubleshoot this without tearing into it?
If it stops raining, I'm gonna record an audio clip so y'all can hear the noise.
check the cam chain and or cam chain tensioner .
Quote from: "Mustang"check the cam chain and or cam chain tensioner .
You might consider putting some engine cleaner additive in the oil like what is made for cars whose automatic valve lift adjusters are getting noisy/dirty. sitting engines can get sticky varnished oil passages that slow movement of thru small passages. I read it does take a good while for this extra detergent additive to do it's job though.
Mustang is the tensioner hydraulic via oil pressure? If so then this certainly fits the scenario and fits the..... get some oil clean additive into the engine and run her.
Quote from: "coachgeo"Quote from: "Mustang"check the cam chain and or cam chain tensioner .
You might consider putting some engine cleaner additive in the oil like what is made for cars whose automatic valve lift adjusters are getting noisy/dirty. sitting engines can get sticky varnished oil passages that slow movement of thru small passages. I read it does take a good while for this extra detergent additive to do it's job though.
Mustang is the tensioner hydraulic via oil pressure? If so then this certainly fits the scenario and fits the..... get some oil clean additive into the engine and run her.
:5huh :roll: :icon_scratch :shock: NOPE don't do it
big spring is all on a ratchet
hmmmm.... ok not hydraulic* .. so sticky oil passages don't seem to fit this bikes chain tensioner scenario then. hmmmm
If it is not the tensioner; what else might cause this noise that first comes about after a bike sitting for a few months?
Or another question may be: What existing problem that cause this noise, tends to appear more obvious after a bike has sat unused for a few months?
Hope for Doc that it is something simple.
* my old Datsun was both spring and hydraulic. Spring against a piston in pocket kept minimal tension on the chain, as oil pressure went up it applied a little pressure on the piston/ tensioner. Believe the Hydraulic action also acted as a dampener during sudden RPM changes
Thanks for all the help, guys.
The spring from the tensioner measured out at 69.3 mm. My Haynes manual says to replace it if the length has "reduced significantly" from the stock length of 73.7 mm. Does a 6% decrease equal a significant reduction?
I'm thinking yes, but figured Mustang might have some experience with this.
EDIT: The link is a sound file of the sound recorded with my iPhone. The clicking is the sound I am concerned with, and that's how it sounds about 8-12 inches from the right side of the bike. That said, it's pretty hard to positively say it comes from the right side of the engine. Although, now that I think about it, I pressed a ratchet against my ear and various areas of the right side of the engine, and the only place I heard the noise thru the ratchet was when I pressed it on the tensioner.
Oh, and at the end I move around back so you can hear the D&D pipes. Somebody asked for a recording a year ago.
http://the23rdcentury.com/othermp3s/TIGER.mp3
I would replace the spring and the tensioner shoe as well as the cam chain , especially if the bike has high miles
doesn't sound like a bearing noise , gut feeling says cam chain and tensioner
looking at bike bandit you can only by the tensioner assembly 95 bucks and the shoe is aalmost a hundred :shock:
cam chain is over a hundred :shock:
check them for wear and if the shoes look good dont bother
don't for get to look at the one under the valve cover that runs between the two cam sprockets
What do you think about just replacing the tensioner now, and then doing the chain later? The bike has 85k miles, so it probly is time for a cam chain. I noticed that the tensioner I pulled was almost fully engaged. But, just in case it is some catastrophic failure I'd rather not throw good money after bad.
And, do I really have to pull the camshafts to change the chain? At least it doesn't seem too bad.
Was your noises present before you parked the bike for a few months? twas my understanding this was a new sound or did I read this wrong.
by fully engaged do you mean no adjustment left ?
If thats the case you NEED a new cam chain .
and very likely the tensioner you have will be fine .
It aint so bad to pull the cams
**TIP** mark the caps where they go and orientation .
they are NOT interchangeable .
The tensioner wasn't fully extended; it had a maybe 3/16 left to extend. But you think I should replace the chain instead of the tensioner for now?
The bike wouldn't start after the move. I finally figured out it was because of fouled plugs. After I replaced the plugs, it fired up and started making this noise, that has never gone away.
Thanks again for all the help. Mustang, we are lucky to have you here.
Ok Dr.
here's a couple of things you need to check out
set the timing rotor on T1 so it points to the ignition sensor
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/parts/100_2007.jpg)
now with the valve cover off and the tensioner in place you should see the arrows on the intake and exhaust cam gears pointing at each other the arrow on the intake gear will be at 3 oclock and the exhaust arrow at 9 oclock .they should be exactly pointing at each other
if they are not you have a worn out chain .
look at the chain in the below photo it is used but well within service limits (came from a low mile motor ) you should see about 18 1/8 th inch when it is laying on a flat surface like the photo.
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/parts/DSC_2831.jpg)
and now remove the blade tensioners and look at them you should see some wear marks but no ridges carved in them
the below photo shows a set of used ones but not worn .
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/parts/DSC_2830.jpg)
the tensioner is a problem if the spring has compressed as much as you say , it means it is not exerting full force against the blades like it should .
Wow, thanks for the great tutorial! I'll pull it back apart next week and order what I need.
Quote from: "Dr. Mordo"....
The bike wouldn't start after the move. I finally figured out it was because of fouled plugs. After I replaced the plugs, it fired up and started making this noise, that has never gone away.....
This is what makes me puzzled. Mustang wouldn't timing chain noises have been there prior to parking it? Or would maybe the first few rounds of low oil from a parked dry engine have been a final straw for something to do with a weak timing chain?
Don't forget to look at cheap things first, even if unlikely, like valve clearance?? If it's not any of them all you've spent is time... I hate spending cash and not solving the issue.
Just my two penn'th :roll:
Dr. Mordo,
That sure sounds like the noise mine started making (somewhat slowly and progressively) last year as it hit 83K miles.
First, I replaced the timing chain, tensioner, and one rubber--no change. Then I thought it might be in the balancer, so I replaced the lash gears--no change.
I have since replaced the entire engine (started the new one up today for the first time), It still sounds lousy.
This is gonna sound stupid, but I'm seriously beginning to suspect that I have a carb that is doing something completely funky, and causing a weird miss leading to gearbox input noise. I will be replacing my complete set of carbs with the ones from my parts bike, and see if that makes any difference.
If you have the chance, check out my old thread 'terrible sounding tiger', and listen to the recording that I made, and see how it compares to your ear.
Sinn'
I just saw this post Sinnergy, sorry for never responding.
Mine sounds different to me. Mine is a loud clicking or tapping, where yours just sounds like a noisy Tiger to my ears. Did you try the different carbs?
Here's the links to the clips for the curious:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwOvBcL52R8
http://the23rdcentury.com/othermp3s/TIGER.mp3
I'm thinking next month I'm going to try to to get her up and running again. Wish me luck.
In answer to the immediate question: Yes, overhauling the other carb set, and replacing the carbs has made a world of difference. Its like a new engine (in fact, it is a new engine, but it sounded just like the old one until I replaced the carbs).
As nearly as I can tell after opening up the original carbs, they were simply worn out. The pistons in two of the carburetors were so worn, that the diaphrams were not working against anything. I don't know if this is a common issue (until joining this, and the biker's oracle forums last year, I've known very few other triple owners) at 80K+ miles or not. When I tried balancing the old carbs, it couldn't be done. I thought they were sucking air through a diaphram somewhere, and had pulled the tops to see if there were holes or tears, but there weren't. Now I'm pretty sure that they were sucking air from the bottom, and the diaphrams were just unable to do their job.
Listening to your mp3 file, the clatter that is the part I was 'listening for' on mine, sounds exactly the same to me on yours, but then I may not be the best judge with damage in both ears. I would simply suggest that you go through your carbs before spending the time/money to replace all of the timing gear. If you decide to go that way anyway, though; I have some nice used parts you're welcome to (tensioner, chain, one rubber). Depends on your philosophy of bike repair. Some stuff I wouldn't touch but new, others, I'm all for cheap.
Right now I'm re-soldering bits of the front electrics, and wiring in better headlamps, but now that I have my shift-reversal issue figured out, I should have it back on the road this month. I have a one-day ride next weekend, and I hope to take the Tiger, but there is a reason that the VFR is 'always there' as a backup.
Lots o' luck,
Sinn'
Hmm. Well the carbs were recently reworked by Triumph, and I suspect they would have told me if they were wasted just so they could sell me a set. So hopefully I'm not in the same boat you were. Hopefully.
I appreciate the offer on the used parts. I am tempted but figure with valve train components I probly shouldn't take any chances.
Thanks for the help, and have fun on yer ride!