TigerTriple.com

Tiger Time => Steamers (1993-1998 Tigers) => Topic started by: Mustang on January 21, 2010, 05:38:19 AM

Title: EXTREME MAKEOVER........Steamer Edition
Post by: Mustang on January 21, 2010, 05:38:19 AM
OK the old girl has 65k on her and its time for some upgrades ......

In this Installment we will convert the front wheel to 17 inch Trophy Wheel with increased rotor size to match for better braking .

First thing you need to do is flip the Trophy rotors over so the outside is now the inside . This is because the steamer forks are a lot closer together than the Trophy , or you could swap out the steering head with Trophy parts . but it really isn't necessary

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_2791.jpg)

In this photo you can see how much closer to the wheel hubs the rotors become once flipped

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_2792.jpg)

Next you need to have some spacers made up , there are two ways you can do this  
1st is make the spacers like this pic  so that they will insert into the  wheel bearing Inside diameters

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_2793.jpg)

Doing it this way you won't have a speedometer anymore unless you go with a trailtech Vapor or similar which will involve replacing the gauge panel . Didn't like that option , every one says it's the only way , I say  :Topes

option #2
goto the lathe and remanufacture the Trophy speedo drive so it will fit into the confines of the Tiger fork tubes

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_2795.jpg)

When you are done it will look like this

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_2797.jpg)

BTW it is now 3/8ths of an inch narrower than original and has had machining done to clear the wheel hub

Next you need to make a couple of adapters for the Brake calipers

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_2798.jpg)

Next mount your new rubber and I am a big fan of the Dynabeads for balancing , they work no matter what the naysayers spew for info against them . They just plain work and the tire wear and ride confirms it , I like em .

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_2800.jpg)

I stuck a big honking Shinko 705 in a 130/80/17 tubeless that is really for the rear , all you have to do is mount it backwards so the rotation arrow goes the wrong way and presto , front tire .
 When you mount the wheel on the bike the speedo drive gets moved to the right side because thats the way the Trophy works and it gives me a functioning original steamer speedometer that is still calibrated correctly .  :wink:

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_2812.jpg)

Look at the size of this bad boy , it should work good in soft sand kinda like a pw200 yamaha .

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_2813.jpg)


Stay tuned more to come
next installment is New high mounted front fender and the finishing touches to the front end . :thumbsup
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Post by: EvilBetty on January 21, 2010, 06:48:11 AM
:new_popcornsmiley
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Post by: Dr. Mordo on January 21, 2010, 04:45:32 PM
Great stuff, as always.  Is this the one with the sidecar?

Sidecar Motard! That's a pretty good band name.
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Post by: Mustang on January 21, 2010, 05:02:17 PM
Nope it's Tigger 2 my favorite .......I am turning it into what Triumph should be making for a Tiger
It's going to be awesome !

Follow along .............More installments coming
waiting on some parts right now
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Post by: rf9rider on January 21, 2010, 05:48:47 PM
Nice work, will be following this one.

Why the need for caliper brackets?

Wouldn`t smaller discs and original calipers work?

Or different calipers?

And what price for the spacers,speedo drive and brackets to forum members?  :lol:
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Post by: Mustang on January 21, 2010, 09:07:00 PM
Quote from: "rf9rider"Nice work, will be following this one.

Why the need for caliper brackets?
need to offset the calipers for the bigger rotors

QuoteWouldn`t smaller discs and original calipers work?
steamer rotors won't fit the trophy wheel

QuoteOr different calipers?
the calipers are Nissin 2 pots same as the trophy , they are the steamer calipers

QuoteAnd what price for the spacers,speedo drive and brackets to forum members?  :lol:
send me a PM
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Post by: Sin_Tiger on January 22, 2010, 04:19:04 AM
8)  :new_popcornsmiley
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Post by: Mudhen on January 29, 2010, 01:36:31 AM
:hello2
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Post by: Mustang on January 29, 2010, 02:40:12 AM
More coming soon ........
the front fender came in today and the big ass Dunlop 616 too !

Sweet Eye-talyin goodness

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0013.jpg)

Big rubber

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0011.jpg)

have to order some new custom made Galfer brake lines to reach the calipers  and need to get a hunk of aluminum to make my new custom fork brace out of

more to come ................... :new_popcornsmiley  :wings
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Post by: Mustang on February 03, 2010, 10:34:19 PM
Had a little spare time so got the new Dunlop mounted onto the Trophy rim and all spiffed up ..........installation was a snap , just use the Tiger wheel spacers and it  bolts right on and mates up to the Trophy brake rotor just like it was made for it

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0226.jpg)

Look at the difference in the stock tiger tire which was a 150 / 70 Shinko 705  compared to the Dunlop D616 which is a 180/55
WOW  :shock:  :love10

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0225.jpg)

New chain Guard coming and need to find some time to make the new front fork brace and mount the sweet Italian high fender up .
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Post by: Mudhen on February 03, 2010, 10:38:37 PM
180... :eusa_clap
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Post by: Sin_Tiger on February 04, 2010, 01:55:12 AM
:pimp  :new_popcornsmiley
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Post by: Mustang on February 22, 2010, 09:55:15 PM
OK finally got back to the Steamer ,  and got all the bits machined/ fabricated for the ol girl so got her assembled finally ....................


First is the ass end ....

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0400.jpg)

The Touratech Chainguard for Girly bikes  will bolt right onto a Steamer Swingarm , you just have to use the bolt for the front mount that the rub strip for the chain , so that bolt does double duty , and the rear mount lines up perfectly with the steamer mount hole , so no modification req'd .

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0401.jpg)


Another shot of that monster Dunlop D616

Onto the front............

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0405.jpg)

Made a new fender mount for the CRF450 Honda front fender , and installed this trick speedo cable guide that came off an old RD350 Yamaha. keeps the speedo cable nice and tidy

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0406.jpg)

This shot shows my custom made fork brace ..........

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0404.jpg)

a close up of the fork brace , and as an added touch I machined "TIGGER 2" into the top of it

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0402.jpg)

The custom machined Trophy speedo drive , wow it's tight quarters in there but it all came together nicely .

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0403.jpg)

And some new custom length Galfer brake lines to finish off the front

Should be more to come
I want to finally install the centerstand that has been hanging around the shop for years and somehow has never managed to make it onto a bike yet , I guess I really don't miss having one  . Been 12 years now without one on the old girl .
And I want to add some Aluminum Panniers , but I do kinda like my Givi's
And I want to modify make a new front sprocket cover ........but nicer weather is coming and these last few projects might get put off until next winter
 :ImaPoser
I think the old girl is probably gonna get a bath and a wax job and I'll ride the wheels off it and nothing more will get done until she is laid up again next winter .

Pics next post of the whole bike once I wash and wax her and she is all sparkly ...definately has the Super Motard look going on .
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Post by: JetdocX on February 22, 2010, 11:15:55 PM
That's bitchin'! :D
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Post by: John Stenhouse on February 23, 2010, 02:18:31 AM
Mustang, what's the bit about turning a rear tyre around makes it a front? Can you do that with fronts?
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Post by: Mustang on February 23, 2010, 02:23:27 AM
just makes the tread pattern go the same way as most front tires do .
when looking at the wheel head on from the front on a v shaped tread pattern the pointy end of the tread should point up for optimum wear and handling , or so they say ...... :?
like this pic
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_2813.jpg)
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Post by: aeronca on February 23, 2010, 02:37:32 AM
man, thats looking good. nice work 8)
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Post by: John Stenhouse on February 23, 2010, 12:40:34 PM
Thanks for that, must say it does look good. Let us know how it handles.
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Post by: Mustang on February 23, 2010, 03:12:27 PM
Took her out last night for a 25 mile spin before the snow comes today ...........
can't say that I notice any huge difference in the handling , but I do like that rear dunlop a lot .

other than the cool factor the handling feels a little better , the front seems more solidly planted to the road.
Gotta lower the ass end some though she's sitting pretty tall in the rear .
I will either flip the eccentrics over or maybe take some preload off of the ohlins..........decisions decisions. :?

The modified trophy speedometer drive appears to be pretty darn close to the correct speed with the Tiger speedo and big front tire
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Post by: Mudhen on February 23, 2010, 03:32:36 PM
It really seems like you make a modification and want it to make the bike better for some reason.

No habla better in my house...

 :wink:
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Post by: Mustang on February 23, 2010, 04:19:47 PM
well the front anchors are far superior to the tigger front rotors
she has mucho better braking now .

will have to wait until I can really flog it in the twisties b4 deciding if the handling was a big improvement or not ........

It does look cool though

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0411.jpg)
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Post by: harre on February 23, 2010, 09:22:03 PM
Let us see her from the front! Pleeeez. :D
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Post by: John Stenhouse on February 23, 2010, 11:26:20 PM
Wondered about the handling, 180/55 is supposer to slow the turn down. Suppose on a Tigger it' don't matter
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Post by: MtheTiger on February 25, 2010, 12:26:04 AM
Hi Mustang

VERY nice mod !
Mean lookin' Tigger  :headbang

Grtz

Markus
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Post by: Mustang on March 05, 2010, 06:22:13 PM
Well ............
have about 150 miles on the new rims and tires .
I'm liking them a lot .
The front feels more planted in every kind of situation .sticks to the curves like glue
does wet muddy dirt roads like it was made for it
cruises on the super slab like riding on a cloud
and back roads with frost heaves and twistys are what this kitty purrrs for now .

all in all I like the mod a lot , & Am thinking the hacked rig in the background would like some of the same treatment

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0545.jpg)
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Post by: coachgeo on March 05, 2010, 07:48:09 PM
How much weight does it add to the bike in relation to:

Here weight with OEM set up.

Picking her up if she's gone to sleep?

The feel when riding?
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Post by: Mustang on March 05, 2010, 08:19:18 PM
Quote from: "coachgeo"How much weight does it add to the bike in relation to:

Here weight with OEM set up.

don't know for sure , I'll say none

QuotePicking her up if she's gone to sleep?
NADA zip zero , and for the record she has only napped a couple of times in 12 years , I try to keep her upright :shock:  :ImaPoser


QuoteThe feel when riding?

just feels planted on the front end a lot better .......no weight difference
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Post by: Rocinante on March 05, 2010, 08:46:17 PM
Interesting how you've gone the opposite way and in some ways feel the same as me with my 21 inch front. Yours should be a lot better on twisty tarmac, but not in the loose stuff where the diameter matter more, ie bigger is better.

Or so I believed. Does the increased width really help in the mud?

It looks really good - and balanced. 17-17 now right?

Dag
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Post by: Mustang on March 05, 2010, 09:07:35 PM
Hi Dag

Have only been down 1 dirt road with it set up like this so far .
It was semi frozen mud , the bigger meaty front was definately an improvement over the 110 / 19  front felt more planted , and I was doing 50 mph .
The big test will be later in the year when I get into some sugar sand on some of my favorite back roads. I'm hoping for the bigger tire to not wash out so easy in the sand .

She does look bad to the bone though with the trophy wheels  :thumbsup  :love10
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Post by: EvilBetty on March 05, 2010, 09:45:09 PM
I wonder how much that fork brace you built has to do with your improved braking and handling?  I have always wondered if my bike could benefit from one.
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Post by: MtheTiger on March 08, 2010, 10:39:01 PM
Several forum members have done the Trophy (rear)wheel mod and got the wheels online at Ebay auctions for fair prices.
This mod sounds tempting and can be done for about the same cost as refurbishing and respoking the orig wheels. But.....
Is buying cast wheels unseen a safe deal?  What to look out for? Any advice for me? Appreciate it.

thx

Markus
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Post by: Mustang on March 08, 2010, 11:24:08 PM
An honest seller is the best advice
the trophy wheels can bend and distort easily and most of the ebay ones are exactly that distorted and bent rims .
you will also need custom machined front wheel spacers and will have no working speedometer unless you have access to a metal lathe and can modify the trophy speedometer drive like I have done .

you also need the trophy rear rotor (the rear tiger rotor will not bolt to the trophy rim )as well as the front rotors from the trophy and again some custom machined front caliper brackets .
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Post by: Dr. Mordo on March 09, 2010, 07:05:11 AM
Mustang, that bike is sinful.  I can't tell from the pics - is the new fender slotted so air can get to the radiator? I seem to remember reading that people have had problems with overheating if they installed a non-slotted high fender.

I have a feeling that fat front tire will be a liability on sand.  I think that instead of cutting a groove it will surf on top of it.  When I took my F650 to Big Bend Nat'l Park, I fought it thru the sand, while my buddy with a F650 Dakar had a much easier time.  I had a 19 front with a Tourance EXP (yes, it's not an ideal tire), while he had a 21 inch tire that was a little more aggressive (I think it was a Duro).  

So my suggestion is to be careful.  We need you here!
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Post by: Mustang on March 09, 2010, 01:49:10 PM
Quote from: "Dr. Mordo"I can't tell from the pics - is the new fender slotted so air can get to the radiator? I seem to remember reading that people have had problems with overheating if they installed a non-slotted high fender.


It's on my to do list ................
yep the temp runs higher with the fender in front of the radiator ,goes way up when sitting in traffic with no air moving
looking at one of these to replace with

(http://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/images/acerbis-supermoto-front-fender.jpg)
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Post by: rf9rider on April 30, 2010, 04:53:35 AM
Mr Mustang, Can you remember what (if any) the difference is in size between the front wheel spindle diameters?
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Post by: Mustang on April 30, 2010, 06:11:15 AM
Quote from: "rf9rider"Mr Mustang, Can you remember what (if any) the difference is in size between the front wheel spindle diameters?

it's a huge difference .....I'll get dimensions tomorrow and post them ...........
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Post by: Mustang on April 30, 2010, 02:00:50 PM
the trophy front axle (spindle) is 25mm and the tiger axle is 17 mm
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Post by: rf9rider on April 30, 2010, 02:27:16 PM
8mm difference in diameter?  :shock:

Thought it might be a couple of mm, but that is a huge difference, Thanks for that.
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Post by: BruKen on May 04, 2010, 06:01:56 PM
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0545.jpg)


Now that does look the biz. Normally I am wary about converting from Factory. Keep us updated with her handling attributes please.  :eusa_clap
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Post by: Mustang on May 04, 2010, 06:25:57 PM
she handles like it is on rails !

I am going with a 120/70/17 front tire in a few days though because although I like the look of the high front fender it blocks too much air from getting to the radiator which is causing the old girl to run too warm for my liking .
So a smaller front tire will let me put the stock front fender (mud guard ) back on which will let the air flow to the radiator again . the stock front fender also works better in the rain  :D

but the 17 inch front and rear make it handle superbly.
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Post by: aeronca on May 04, 2010, 06:39:54 PM
Quote from: Mustang
Quote from: Dr. MordoI can't tell from the pics - is the new fender slotted so air can get to the radiator? I seem to remember reading that people have had problems with overheating if they installed a non-slotted high fender.


It's on my to do list ................
yep the temp runs higher with the fender in front of the radiator ,goes way up when sitting in traffic with no air moving
looking at one of these to replace with

(http://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/images/acerbis-supermoto-front-fender.jpg)




interesting, i haven't really noticed any real difference in the temp on my bike, but then I'm running an acerbics technic fender and it may allow a different airflow.
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Post by: Mudhen on May 04, 2010, 06:45:21 PM
Same here.  I've been running a high fender for 30k miles and haven't noticed an issue yet.

Although a couple years ago I put some coolant in it and it burped it all out...so I haven't bothered  putting any more in.  No sense wasting it...
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Post by: Mustang on May 04, 2010, 06:49:57 PM
This was a fender for a CRF450 onda and it seems as though the shape of the front of the fender tends to push the air out and away from the bike

looking at the bike head on I can't even see the radiator at all
with the fender off the bike runs considerably cooler on the temp gauge
with the high fender on........ the needle is usually just barely below the red mark and in traffic or stopped at traffic lights it is almost maxed out on the temp gauge

it's not really as hot as the gauge shows as the new sender I put on for the temp gauge has always read hotter then it should .it reads almost halfway up the temp gauge when everything is normal , which is where it runs with the high front fender off . put that high fender back on and the fans are running quite a bit of the time .
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Post by: ramseybella on May 10, 2010, 04:38:58 AM
Quote from: "Mustang"she handles like it is on rails !

I am going with a 120/70/17 front tire in a few days though because although I like the look of the high front fender it blocks too much air from getting to the radiator which is causing the old girl to run too warm for my liking .
So a smaller front tire will let me put the stock front fender (mud guard ) back on which will let the air flow to the radiator again . the stock front fender also works better in the rain  :D

but the 17 inch front and rear make it handle superbly.
Don't understand the high off road front fender on a Tiger, looks cool but at 500 Lbs not a true dirt bike, havent taken my tiger on a forest road yet with street tires, but I did take her for a 285 mile ride today up in the Jamez mountains after the valve shim job no issues so far.
 40 mpg at 75 to 80 Mph.
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Post by: Jaythro on May 14, 2010, 02:09:11 PM
Man That Looks Excellent

I'd love a go at that


This Damn Place is SO damn addictive I've been in here for an hour and I should be working!!!

Mu Ha HA!
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Post by: daveb on May 15, 2010, 05:05:33 PM
Looking nice there Mustang, I was concered when reading page 1 about changing front wheels sizes I know how some small modifications like this affect the speedo.  By the sound of your mod, the new front wheel and tyre combination is the same size as the exisiting, wheel and tyre combinations.

This next bit will bore your all to sleep, for that I apologise.

I will come clean, I am a design engineer for an automotive instrumentation company. Possibly best know as 'Smiths Instruments' although company name changes over the last 20 years.

I understand how mechanical speedos have a critical gear ratio between the hub and speedo input plus how a simple change will effect the pointer position for speed.

however it sounds like the new wheel /  tyre combo has the same rolling circumferance as the original.

I know a few guys from the TDM owners who have change the front wheel size by 1 inch, this has resulted in a 6.5% increase in speed shown (true 60mph displays 65mph) plus 6.5% mile increase. for 1 mile travelled the bike shows 1.65 miles.

type approval for cars (SVA or IVA or Holomgation) speedo can not show less than true speed, however it can display true speed + 10% +4km/h.
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Post by: Mustang on May 15, 2010, 06:04:13 PM
ah but what you are missing in this equation is the fact that the trophy uses the same speedo as a tigger the difference is in the speedo drive ........and I modified a trophy speedo drive to work on the tigger , thats why the speedo drive is on the right hand side now .

The speed is actually a little slow on the speedometer because of the diameter of the tire
but should fall right back to perfect as soon as I put my new front tire on which is a smaller diameter more the size of an original trophy tire
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Post by: daveb on May 15, 2010, 08:21:47 PM
got it Mustang, both tigger and trophy uses a common speedo, hence with a new tyre the calculations bring it back into tolerance.

I just had to check as a lot o people do this mod and forget about the speedo, but you have put a lot of thought into this before you did the mod, excellent.
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Post by: Mudhen on May 15, 2010, 08:24:53 PM
Ok, can we stop talking about Mustangs speedo?

 :wink:
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Post by: Mustang on May 15, 2010, 08:45:41 PM
Quote from: "Mudhen"Ok, can we stop talking about Mustangs speedo?

 :wink:

eeeeewwwwwwwwwwwww! (http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/emoticons/497.gif) I don't think clorox makes enough eye bleach for that (http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/emoticons/Jack.gif) (http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/emoticons/24.gif)  :ImaPoser
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Post by: daveb on May 15, 2010, 09:49:56 PM
Quote from: "Mudhen"Ok, can we stop talking about Mustangs speedo?

 :wink:

oh no, okay I will stop talking speedos, been told off  :( ......how about tachos... :D

just kidding.
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Post by: EvilBetty on May 16, 2010, 03:14:50 AM
(http://southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com/shared/sps/img/content/characters/157a.jpg)
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Post by: daveb on May 16, 2010, 02:06:26 PM
Quote from: "EvilBetty"(http://southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com/shared/sps/img/content/characters/157a.jpg)

nice n spice
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Post by: NeilD on June 08, 2010, 05:19:22 PM
Quote from: "Mustang".... put the stock front fender (mud guard ) back on......

Be interested to see how that looks once its on...
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Post by: Mustang on June 08, 2010, 09:56:25 PM
Quote from: "NeilD"
Quote from: "Mustang".... put the stock front fender (mud guard ) back on......

Be interested to see how that looks once its on...

It looks like this ...

(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_0694.jpg)

not as mad max as the high fender and big ass shinko 705 though
But oh my my it handles like it's on a rail it is so flickable in the twistys changing your line in mid corner is easy as pie , the handling is phenomenal
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Post by: Mudhen on June 08, 2010, 10:03:43 PM
Is that your TA?!?!?!?!!
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Post by: Mustang on June 08, 2010, 10:25:54 PM
Quote from: "Mudhen"Is that your TA?!?!?!?!!

Nope
Andy's, just adding some gizmo's for him
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Post by: Mudhen on June 08, 2010, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: "Mustang"
Quote from: "Mudhen"Is that your TA?!?!?!?!!

Nope
Andy's, just adding some gizmo's for him

You ridden it (or one) before?  Wondering what it's like compared to a Steamer...(maybe a tad bit outside the scope of this thread I guess...)  :wink:
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Post by: Mustang on June 09, 2010, 12:22:01 AM
I've ridden it ..
this one is a 1989 model , it is a 750 v twin . it does ok it's definitely easier to maneuver in a parking lot than a tigger , the friggin exhaust pipe will burn your leg when you put your foot down at a stop light . OUCH ! it got me
it's way down on power compared to a tigger
You can seee where triumph got the styling from for the steamer ............
Andy love's it , some parts like brittle plastic body work are made of unobtainium .
it's really easy and painless to service the airfilter
the rest is about on par for difficulty the same as a steamer .
It's a honda and reflects that in build quality and reliability .

It's narrow and smaller than tigger so I could see where it would make a good off road machine , enduro style adv type of bike , a CRF it's not !
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Post by: GavD on July 24, 2010, 10:12:38 AM
Mustang,
I'm carrying out a similar front wheel conversion with a 6 spoke Trident style one. With regards to the speedo drive, i presume you had to also reduce the width of the actual worm drive spinner within the speedo drive, and had to manufacture a sleeve to fit over the wheel spindle and inside the speedo drive centre due to the differences in spindle size between the tiger and the trophy.

Am i right in thinking that?
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Post by: Mustang on July 24, 2010, 01:24:18 PM
Quote from: "GavD"Mustang,
 With regards to the speedo drive, i presume you had to also reduce the width of the actual worm drive spinner within the speedo drive, and had to manufacture a sleeve to fit over the wheel spindle and inside the speedo drive centre due to the differences in spindle size between the tiger and the trophy.

Am i right in thinking that?

if you look in the pic you will see the end of the gear shaft had to be turned down the same amount that the alum casting width had to be reduced by and then needed new slots machined into the end to run off the tangs in the wheel
I chucked the speedo drive in a lathe and turned the outside face of it down until I had the correct width . Which BTW left the wall thickness pretty thin in one spot , but it works fine as the casting is pretty rugged otherwise .and then pressed a sleeve into it to make up for the difference in the axle sizes

it's been working fine eevr since for a couple thousand miles so far .
pic below shows the drive in the lathe and starting to be machined
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_2795.jpg)

the end result is like this with the larger diameter hub completely removed
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/extreme%20makeover/DSC_2797.jpg)

also keep in mind that the trophy speedo drives off the right hand side of the wheel so must be mounted on that side
other than the gears being cut a different direction the trophy and tiger speedo drives are a like
you could modify a tiger drive and eliminate the need to bush the axle the tiger drive would need to mounted on the left it will also err on speed due to wheel size , I used the trophy drive and speed indication is spot on with the tiger speedo  .
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Post by: Mudhen on July 24, 2010, 02:29:12 PM
Wow, didn't realize it was so easy...seems like a simple job anyone could do...

:lol:
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Post by: GavD on July 24, 2010, 03:05:02 PM
Thank you (again) Mustang,

What material did you use to make the sleeve/spacer. It looks like Aluminium in the photo, but surely thats a bit soft isn't it?

Gav
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Post by: Mustang on July 24, 2010, 03:15:02 PM
Quote from: "GavD"Thank you (again) Mustang,

What material did you use to make the sleeve/spacer. It looks like Aluminium in the photo, but surely thats a bit soft isn't it?

Gav
spacer in photo is the one for the other side , if you look you will see an aluminum alloy spacer in the speedo drive already , It's 7075 alloy (read expensive) but is as strong or stronger than steel .
But any alloy aluminum will work just fine ...........they are to load the bearings and keep the axle centered is all they serve a purpose for
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Post by: R0B on August 07, 2010, 12:16:57 AM
I came across this thread, and have read it with interest. It certainly has the WOW factor!!. I have a thunderbird with a zxr1200 front end on, and also have a spare set of 1997 sprint sport wheels. Both have the speedo drive on the left. I also have a set of four and six pot tokico calipers in the garage and am now very keen on the conversion. Just out of interest, as I'm collecting my steamer on wednesday could someone post the distance between the inner fork stantions (inner spindle length), as I can measure up both sets of wheels and see what'll fit .

Cheers

Rob
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Post by: GavD on August 07, 2010, 11:18:17 AM
Rob,

The gap between the inner faces of the fork stantions (i.e. the space available to fit in the speedo drive, wheel and spacer) is 143mm.
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Post by: R0B on August 07, 2010, 06:04:47 PM
Many thanks.....................ruler is coming straight out and off to the garage :-)
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Post by: R0B on August 07, 2010, 06:50:39 PM
Well, the ZRX setup is miles too wide, and the Sprint looks to be the same as the trophy................I might measure my trident yokes and see what would happen if I swapped them over to the tiger..............
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Post by: MtheTiger on August 09, 2010, 12:17:02 PM
Well, I got me some nice looking Sprint rims (3 spoked ones like Trophy) for a nice price to do the Mustang 2.0 Tigger conversion.
Because I do not have a lathe I will have to let someone make the spacers, caliperbrackets & speedo conversion.
Are there any measurements or tech drawings with specs available for these items?


thx a lot
 :?
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Post by: Mustang on August 09, 2010, 02:08:33 PM
I got no dims as I just made the pcs as I went along ..........

if I strip her down any time soon I will get the dimensions you need for all the parts and send them to you
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Post by: MtheTiger on August 09, 2010, 02:26:56 PM
thx Mustang, that would B great.
I have my holiday from august 21 to september 6 and I was planning to do my conversion in this period....... hope this isn't too soon  :wink:
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Post by: GavD on August 22, 2010, 02:10:04 PM
Mustang,
Once you'd machined the speedo drive down, you've effectively removed the part of the drive that stops all the crap & rain getting into the wheel bearings on that side. Did you do anything to the wheel to counteract this or is it just a case of dropping the wheel out regularly to clean & regrease?
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Post by: Mustang on August 22, 2010, 02:24:48 PM
you dont really think that piss poor design ever kept anything out of there do you ?

But I also machined it the same diameter as the original seal surface so the rubber seal is still working as good as it ever did ! :D
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Post by: rf9rider on August 23, 2010, 04:33:08 PM
Mustang,does the Girly Touratech chain guard give any extra clearance between the guard and chain compared to the original?

Looks higher in your pics, thinking it might be the way to go if you lower the rear end by turning the eccentric adjusters?
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Post by: Mustang on August 23, 2010, 04:40:06 PM
Quote from: "rf9rider"Mustang,does the Girly Touratech chain guard give any extra clearance between the guard and chain compared to the original?

Looks higher in your pics, thinking it might be the way to go if you lower the rear end by turning the eccentric adjusters?
There is a spacer under the rear mount if you don't use a spacer you will be mighty close to the chain and sprocket when the axle is flipped upside down to lower .
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Post by: geno955i on September 12, 2010, 01:24:40 PM
:?:  hey mustang did you ever get a chance to take measurements of the brackets etc or consider doing a kit for sale?
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Post by: Mustang on September 12, 2010, 02:26:27 PM
No
I havn't  had any reason to take the front wheel off of tigger 2 lately and to make a kit for such a limited market just doesn't make a lot of sense.

they are just 1/4 inch plate cut to shape to fit the calipers and to extend them backwards enough to fit the bigger rotors of the sprint or trophy .
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Post by: MtheTiger on September 13, 2010, 01:04:17 AM
QuoteI havn't had any reason to take the front wheel off of tigger 2 lately and to make a kit for such a limited market just doesn't make a lot of sense.

I agree with that Mustang although a lifesize (1:1) tech drawing of the bracket would B verrry nice indeed especially for the exact placement of the holes :)  8)
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Post by: MtheTiger on September 13, 2010, 02:05:54 AM
Quote..........installation was a snap , just use the Tiger wheel spacers and it bolts right on and mates up to the Trophy brake rotor just like it was made for it

1 question though: does the Tigger sprocket fit the Sprint/Trophy mount?
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Post by: Mustang on September 13, 2010, 02:18:42 AM
yep the sprocket carrier is the same part for the trophy rim as the tiger hub
sprockets will bolt on from either bike  :thumbsup
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Post by: MtheTiger on December 07, 2010, 05:07:52 PM
Mustang, with which grade bolts do you bolt the caliper to the bracket?

- 8.8
- 10.9
- 12.9

I can get 12.9 which are the hardest bolts available but these are the least shear resistant and shear/break off without warning. Furthermore, the bolts I can get are fully threaded so the lateral force is put on the thread where it goes through the bracket.

I wasn't planning to launch myself in a hedge or worse under heavy braking :shock:  :roll:

As you can tell I have no clue whatsoever which lateral (shear) forces these bolts have to withstand..... :?:

thx
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Post by: Mustang on December 07, 2010, 06:17:37 PM
I used 8.8's but the 12.9's will work just fine ....
you will have no problems
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Post by: MtheTiger on December 08, 2010, 03:45:10 PM
Thanks, I'll go with the 12.9 ones.
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Post by: Bixxer Bob on December 08, 2010, 10:33:30 PM
What diameter are the bolts? :?
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Post by: Mustang on December 08, 2010, 11:09:04 PM
if memory serves me they are M10's
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Post by: MtheTiger on December 09, 2010, 01:01:35 AM
Yep, M10 but Metric fine threaded (1,25) !
Hard to come by in NL & elsewhere I guess.
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Post by: Bixxer Bob on December 09, 2010, 12:37:34 PM
Just for fun I did some numbers on this.  Apologies in advance for the simplification of the scenario:

Assume bike plus rider is around 750lbs and CofG is midway between front and rear wheels.
Assume that anything over 1G stopping force would cause a stoppie :shock:
Dist from front axle to disc bolt ring is around 10cm, dist to CofG is around 75cm therefore using simple lever / fulcrum calc the load at the bolt ring at 1G braking is 5625lbs.
Combined surface area of 6 bolts is around 0.5 square inches.  Yield point (lower than tensile strength) of the lowest grade stainless steel (I couldn't find a figure for 12s) is 185k lbs per square inch.  Shear is thought to be 4/5 tensile strength therefore max load is now 4/5 of 185k which is 148k lbs per square inch so the combined strength of six bolts is half of that which is  74,000 lbs per square inch.

Going back to the load of 5625lbs, safety factor for shock loads is x 12 so the notional load would be 12x5625 which is 67,500lbs.  So it can be seen that for the sake of this simple calculation, the max load of 64.5k is well within the max strength of 74k lbs.  Or to put it another way, 13 times as strong as needed.

This simple calculation does not take into account fork dive under braking, the friction strength created by the disc being bolted tightly to the wheel or fat blokes in the saddle.  And this is only for one disc and we have two ... or the role played by the back brake etc. etc.

And I need a lie down....    (http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/nahrung/a035.gif)
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Post by: John Stenhouse on December 09, 2010, 02:14:42 PM
You definitely need to get out more. :lol:

I would love to have that sort of knowledge though.
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Post by: Bixxer Bob on December 09, 2010, 02:54:57 PM
Quote from: "John Stenhouse"...I would love to have that sort of knowledge though...

I've over simplified it because of the limitations of my education.  Most of that is either "O" Level physics (anyone remember "O" Levels?  must be worth a degree at least these days.. :roll: ) or knowing where to find the table to look up the numbers.  I have a doorstep of a book called Machinery's Handbook given to me by my boss when he retired.  Purchased today it would cost around £83. I was 22 at the time.  The book was printed in 1957, two years after I was born, but still relevant today.  It's gotten me out of a hole more than once!!
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Post by: MtheTiger on December 09, 2010, 03:01:29 PM
Great write-up !

It's all waaaay beyond me but the conclusion is nice to hear!
Although it's not the disc bolts I was talkin' 'bout but the caliper bolts (2x2).

I guess the same force is applicable to these bolts 'cause the caliper and pads themselves create the -1G stopping force which in your calc is transposed to the discs..... the direction of the force is perhaps 180 degrees the other side...... :roll:  :roll:  :roll: :roll:

thx mate!
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Post by: Mustang on December 09, 2010, 03:14:15 PM
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"I have a doorstep of a book called Machinery's Handbook given to me by my boss when he retired.  Purchased today it would cost around £83. I was 22 at the time.  The book was printed in 1957, two years after I was born, but still relevant today.  It's gotten me out of a hole more than once!!

I have edition 24 which is more modern and has CNC info in it . I also have a Machinery Handbook dated from the 40's ............a lot of the info is the same , some things don't change much .
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Post by: Bixxer Bob on December 09, 2010, 05:30:16 PM
I think they might have dropped the bit about making steam tight gaskets out of asbestos and red lead paint by now.... :lol:
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Post by: intotheabis on April 07, 2012, 09:19:56 PM
Hi Mustang, are they lowered pegs on your bike I see?
I am currently trying to figure out how to do that so my standing stance is improved. I have raised the bars as much as I dare.
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Post by: rf9rider on April 08, 2012, 01:11:51 AM
Quote from: "intotheabis"Hi Mustang, are they lowered pegs on your bike I see?
I am currently trying to figure out how to do that so my standing stance is improved. I have raised the bars as much as I dare.

Mustang makes and sells them, have a looky here

http://www.knlcycle.com/ (http://www.knlcycle.com/)
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Post by: John Stenhouse on April 08, 2012, 11:35:08 AM
And mighty fine they are too.
Title: Re: EXTREME MAKEOVER........Steamer Edition
Post by: wp75 on November 10, 2014, 07:49:20 PM
mustang, I like you're setup. on the left side fork leg there is a bulge that keeps the speedometer drive from spinning. the right side fork leg hasn't. how did you solve this ??

wp75
Title: Re: EXTREME MAKEOVER........Steamer Edition
Post by: Mustang on November 10, 2014, 08:53:40 PM
Quote from: wp75 on November 10, 2014, 07:49:20 PM
mustang, I like you're setup. on the left side fork leg there is a bulge that keeps the speedometer drive from spinning. the right side fork leg hasn't. how did you solve this ??

wp75
the cable holds it fine as well as the torque when you tighten the axle nut
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