Hello one and all, i hope you can help me out, after much googling i can still not find the correct needle position and jet size for a Tiger 885 i am helping a friend with. The bike has always suffered from poor running and a local garage has rebuilt the carbs twice, but now its suffering from really bad MPG once over 70MPH, ie 20 mpg. I've got a set of carbs from a daytona to fit, both bikes are fitted with 125 main jets, is that correct for the tiger ? Also both have diffrent needle hights with the daytona midway and the tiger needle 4th from top. Does anyone know what the main jet size and needle settings are please. Thanks.
I assume you have mikunis and not Keihin carbs ..............
The mikunis for tigers are
105 main jets
#40 pilot jets
and the needles should be in the middle clip with the pilot screw set at 1 1/2 turns to 2 turns out from seated
(mikunis are also noted for having the o rings leaking on the float assemblys which will cause rich running )
at 70 mph and above on a tiger with mikunis you are going to get average 30-35 mpg depending on how heavy your throttle hand is !
if you have keihins they came lean from the factory , like seriously lean
factory settings were
98 main jets
#40 pilot jets
non adjustable needles and the pilot screws were basically almost closed
what works well with keihins is
105 main jets
shim the needles up with some washers that are .030-.050 of an inch thick
and set the pilot screws to around 2 turns out
big improvement
on either setup it assuming that only one snorkel is open on the airbox , there should be a blanking cap on the right hand snorkel.
if not it will be sucking too much air will need some serious increase in mains and fuel mileage will suffer
the mikunis were gas hogs thats why triumph went to keihins on their carb'd bikes
keihins with the modified jetting will return average 35-40 mpg at 70 mph
at 50 mph they will give 55 mpg ................big difference , it's just the nature of the beast
I just got by 98 Steamer back from the 24,000 mile service. The valves needed adjustment and the carbs were synched.I also installed 3 nology coils over the winter.
It runs better but the throttle response is not exactly crisp. Hard throttle brings a hesition before the power kicks in, especially at higher RPMs. Is this behavior "normal" for a keihin carbed Steamer? I also found out that the air cleaner element is a K&N. Would this be enough to mess up the air/fuel balance?
I have been ruminating on changing the jets in the carb to see if this would help.
Quote from: "cascadetiger"I just got by 98 Steamer back from the 24,000 mile service. The valves needed adjustment and the carbs were synched.I also installed 3 nology coils over the winter.
It runs better but the throttle response is not exactly crisp. Hard throttle brings a hesition before the power kicks in, especially at higher RPMs. Is this behavior "normal" for a keihin carbed Steamer? I also found out that the air cleaner element is a K&N. Would this be enough to mess up the air/fuel balance?
I have been ruminating on changing the jets in the carb to see if this would help.
yes indeedy
the hesitation is there because the mains are not big enough does it actually pick up speed if you roll the throttle back some from full on .....if yes your mains are too small
105's work very well in a keihin carbed tiger
stock is 98
shimming the needles up helps the mid range big time
and go to 2 1/4 turns on the pilot screws .....you will be impressed ! :D
Hah! You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what happens when I back off the gas.
One more question, where would a person buy jets for this carb?
you can get main jets from any good triumph dealer
or if you want to know what works really well is to hand spin a #59 drill bit thru your existing mains and presto chango you have 105 main jets
the marking sizes of main jets are just simply the hole diameter in mm
ie. a jet marked 100 is 1 mm hole
a jet marked 105 is 1.05 mm
stock jets are 98 , they are .98 mm hole size
Mustang,
I was reading on your 105mm main jet conversion for the Keihins, will this help over 7000 feet above sea level or just staying at stock setting.
Thinking Lean will be better at higher altitude will be doing a carb job next few weeks.
How do you shim the needles up and what do these washers look like?
Thanks for your help..
if you have keihins they came lean from the factory , like seriously lean
factory settings were
98 main jets
#40 pilot jets
non adjustable needles and the pilot screws were basically almost closed
what works well with keihins is
105 main jets
shim the needles up with some washers that are .030-.050 of an inch thick
and set the pilot screws to around 2 turns out
big improvement
I put the larger jets in over the weekend. The air box removal and install is a real bugger, otherwise it was uneventful.
The bike runs really good. Warm up is faster and throttle response is much improved. No more hestitation when throttle is applied, it actually lofted the front wheel off the ground when I did a launch in 1st gear, it has never done that before!
Quote from: "ramseybella"Mustang,
I was reading on your 105mm main jet conversion for the Keihins, will this help over 7000 feet above sea level or just staying at stock setting.
Thinking Lean will be better at higher altitude will be doing a carb job next few weeks.
How do you shim the needles up and what do these washers look like?
Thanks for your help..
I doubt 105's are going to hurt at higher elevations it will just run a little richer
my bike with 105's ran exceptionally well anywhere I went in the rockies last summer , did beartooth pass with out a hiccup .
the washers to shim the needles in a keihin are just
flat washers 8mm diameter with a 3mm diameter hole in them bought at a hardware store . in inch size that is 5/16 ths x 3/16 ths use three that are the same thickness , 1 for each needle
Quote from: "cascadetiger"I put the larger jets in over the weekend. The air box removal and install is a real bugger, otherwise it was uneventful.
The bike runs really good. Warm up is faster and throttle response is much improved. No more hestitation when throttle is applied, it actually lofted the front wheel off the ground when I did a launch in 1st gear, it has never done that before!
:thumbsup Works really well doesn't it !
So is it a big deal cleaning my keihin carbs, does not look that big of a deal?
Cracked the air box open if I was not so cheap (Conservatively Conservative) I would have bought a new one what a pain in the A.
Also Mustang my Cam clearance on my exhaust is around .008 one is .0065 my local Mechanic who I bought my shims told me to leave them alone and just do the intake shims that are way tight.
Think that is a good plan?
:roll:
I just bought a set of these from harbor freight $12.99 each.
Mounted them on a board.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=93547 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93547)
the exhausts are fine do the tight intakes
those vacuum gauges may or may not work
the needles might flutter violently and be unreadable
or they may work fine if they flutter badly you will need to reduce the sie of the hose with a restrictor which is a pc of hose that has nothing more than a pin hole for a diameter
Quote from: "Mustang"the exhausts are fine do the tight intakes
those vacuum gauges may or may not work
the needles might flutter violently and be unreadable
or they may work fine if they flutter badly you will need to reduce the sie of the hose with a restrictor which is a pc of hose that has nothing more than a pin hole for a diameter
I remember reading on that about the flutter, will see what I need to do thanks for all your help..
Just another data point here. I rejetted my 98 with 102 mains and 40 pilots. The screws are at about 1.5 turns and I used a CO analyzer to set them for 2% CO in the exhaust. Runs great, easy cold starts (unless its been sitting all winter), and mileage in the mid 40's.
Jets are not specific to the brand of bike. Keihin and Mikuni are used by all major brands. Any bike shop will have a big box of jets. Just bring in the old one so you get the right style of jet.
On the airbox, its a steamer rite of passage to remove one. Coat all 6 rubber boots with wheel bearing grease or Vaseline. It will give you a better seal and removal/install is a snap. BTW I have the Hepco and Becker crash bars and I just slide the carbs out and secure them to the crash bar to work on them. No fuss with removing the throttle cable that way.
is this the main jet you are talking about ???
please confirm, because I don't want to buy wrong ones.
...
Its been a few years since I've seen them. Looks about right. I removed one and took it to the shop so we could make sure I bought the same style.
Quote from: "ramseybella"I just bought a set of these from harbor freight $12.99 each.
Mounted them on a board.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=93547 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93547)
I tried a set of vacuum gauges for syncing the carbs. You'll need some sort of orifice (which could be as easy as pinching the tube) to dampen out the needle vibration. I also found that the accuracy varied between the gauges. That is they gave different readings when connected to the same vacuum source. I quickly sent them back and built a differential manometer. There are posts on Advrider about how to do it. Basically you need a long clear plastic tube and partially filled with oil or water. Also need a valve or restrictor of some kind to dampen the vacuum pulses. You hang the clear tube up to make a U shape and you will look for the difference in levels. Also a good idea to have a chamber to catch the liquid so it does not accidentally get sucked into the port if one end comes off. Each end of the tube will connect to the carb vacuum ports. If the levels are at the same height, then those two carbs are in sync. The device is much more accurate because it measures only the difference in vacuum as opposed to the total vacuum and then subtracting.
Quote from: "Mustang"I assume you have mikunis and not Keihin carbs ..............
The mikunis for tigers are
105 main jets
#40 pilot jets
and the needles should be in the middle clip with the pilot screw set at 1 1/2 turns to 2 turns out from seated
(mikunis are also noted for having the o rings leaking on the float assemblys which will cause rich running )
at 70 mph and above on a tiger with mikunis you are going to get average 30-35 mpg depending on how heavy your throttle hand is !
if you have keihins they came lean from the factory , like seriously lean
factory settings were
98 main jets
#40 pilot jets
non adjustable needles and the pilot screws were basically almost closed
what works well with keihins is
105 main jets
shim the needles up with some washers that are .030-.050 of an inch thick
and set the pilot screws to around 2 turns out
big improvement
on either setup it assuming that only one snorkel is open on the airbox , there should be a blanking cap on the right hand snorkel.
if not it will be sucking too much air will need some serious increase in mains and fuel mileage will suffer
the mikunis were gas hogs thats why triumph went to keihins on their carb'd bikes
keihins with the modified jetting will return average 35-40 mpg at 70 mph
at 50 mph they will give 55 mpg ................big difference , it's just the nature of the beast
What needles are we talking about shimming any photos of the needle?
The needles are number 7 in the diagram.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/rf9rider/canvas.png)
YABBUT THATS A MIKUNI CARB .RAMSEY HAS kEIHINS
whoops cap lock sorry
https://www.bikebandit.com/assets/schem ... 6-2076.gif (https://www.bikebandit.com/assets/schematics/Triumph/TR-0606-2076.gif)
take a flat washer that is 1 mm thick by 8 mm diameter and has a hole of at least 3 mm ...slide it down the needle #4 in pic starting from the pointy end reassemble the slide .
This mod will fatten up the mid range nicely on a Keihin carbed tiger and eliminate the dead zone in the throttle between 4k and 5k
It was only for reference to show the needle. :oops:
So Mustang these shims go before or after the VACUUM PISTON?
Reason I am asking I don't want to FUBAR it I just put the carbs all together and back on warmed it up and hook up the Motion Pro Sync, I was able to adjust a little but I was distracted buy my Wife (NO Way!!) and hit the gas a little to hard and sucked about 50% of the Blue fluid out of tube 1 and 2. So I am ordering another botel oof fluid a new OEM Air filter and will do this when I get all the stuff..
Thanks for all the Brain work you guys put into your replys!!
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk237/ramseypete/Pinky_and_the_Brain_by_TalbainEric-1.jpg)
Quote from: MustangI assume you have mikunis and not Keihin carbs
if you have keihins they came lean from the factory , like seriously lean
factory settings were
98 main jets
#40 pilot jets
non adjustable needles and the pilot screws were basically almost closed
what works well with keihins is
105 main jets
shim the needles up with some washers that are .030-.050 of an inch thick
and set the pilot screws to around 2 turns out
big improvement
Any speculations on what jets to use on Keihins when I change the old Mikunis off my Felix? The Mikunis now have 105,000 on them, so getting very tired. Been running (for 9 years) #130 jets with stock needle at middle setting & K&N airbox allowing 55 sq inches of flow area as opposed to 49 from stock airbox. General talk around home suggests starting around jet size 112. Now Dyno'ed at 101 hp with 3 into 1 Girly header & GSXR Titanium can, but need more mpg for long distance gravel.
Thanks.
Quote from: "fishnbiker"Any speculations on what jets to use on Keihins when I change the old Mikunis off my Felix? The Mikunis now have 105,000 on them, so getting very tired. Been running (for 9 years) #130 jets with stock needle at middle setting & K&N airbox allowing 55 sq inches of flow area as opposed to 49 from stock airbox. General talk around home suggests starting around jet size 112. Now Dyno'ed at 101 hp with 3 into 1 Girly header & GSXR Titanium can, but need more mpg for long distance gravel.
Thanks.
With your mods 112's would be a good place to start ...............but I have found that the mikunis and keihins are usually pretty close to each other in what they prefer for main jet sizes .
So if you are running 130's now , you may find that the keihins will want bigger mains than 112's.
Now for the bad news ...when you start getting into the bigger mains on the keihins you turn them into gas guzzlers just like the mik's.
I have a 98 with keihins on it and it had the snorkel open on both sides and 112's in it when I got it from previous owner .......but had no other mods . It ran good but started hard , and was a thirsty little critter.
I have since capped the snorkel and gone to 105's and it starts much better and runs really good . The reason I went back to a more stock setup was to get some better gas mileage out of it . Hauling the sidecar around even with more normal setup I still only get 25 mpg out of it
with 112's and open airbox I was only seeing 22 mpg .
For the sidecar though I think I am going back to 100's for mains to get the gas mileage up a little more ................speed aint what you need on a hack .
my other steamer (a 98) runs really well on 105's with slightly modified exhaust and stock airbox .
Any speculations on what jets to use on Keihins when I change the old Mikunis off my Felix? ...........
With your mods 112's would be a good place to start ...............but I have found that the mikunis and keihins are usually pretty close to each other in what they prefer for main jet sizes .
So if you are running 130's now , you may find that the keihins will want bigger mains than 112's.
Now for the bad news ...when you start getting into the bigger mains on the keihins you turn them into gas guzzlers just like the mik's.
So, now it seems to work out that it won't much matter which set of carbs I rebuild, other than I already know what i have with the Miku's. I have tried them with smaller jets & even 128's don't let it reach full rev potential with the K&N airflow. I could think about cutting back the airflow by downsizing the filter screen size (I did cut it back from 65 sq in. to make the unit fit in the first place). Maybe just carrying an extra gas can will be the way to go. Or, I lose all that wonderfull extra power, Boohoo.