I had to pull my LH front caliper off and am now hooking up the hydraulic brake line and bleeding the brakes. I started with the RH side first because its farthest from reservoir. After numerous attempts between LH and RH bleeder I don't see any bubbles. But, I can't get a hard brake lever. I suspect I have air trapped in the cross over tube. What is the best method to bleed if you have broken into the lines and not just flushing?
Help point out the obvious.
Thanks, Skoron
'06 Tiger
mighty vac
worth every penny .....
(http://www.hayabusa.org/forum/attachments/general-bike-related-topics/195457d1279854592-mighty-vac-tool-mityvac_brakebleeder_800.jpg)
Well, that is the obvious :)
One of the questions I had was if that hard line going over the fender has to be dropped below the calipers to allow the bubbles to flow out?
Skoron
air bubbles want to rise
not with a mighty vac
takes longer to get it out of the toolbox than it does to bleed the brakes
2 minutes done both sides and thats if your slow
i've worked on bikes that no amount of pumping the lever will get the air out
mighty vac ,30 bucks , autozone , done :D
I made my own kit, and it works really well. I bought a fork oil syringe and got some tubing.
Mustang
Do you leave the bleeder open during the whole process with the Mighty Vac or do you still open/close bleeder with each pump?
I was converting my calipers to Speed Bleeders which started the whole problem. don't ask.
skoron
You leave the bleeders closed
the hose and cansiter hook to the bleeders (hose fit)
the vaccum pump hooks to the other side of cannister
pump the handle a few times to get a good vacuum reading on the gauge
open the bleeder a little
and then release the lever on the pump
sucks all the air right out and a little fluid too thats what the catch cannisters for .
close the bleeder
repeat
until you only see fluid
took longer to explain it then to actually do it
I too use a mityvac, one thing I would add is that I have found that sometimes you need to seal the bleeders as I was getting air drawn in round the threads, I just use a dab of copaslip or similar, you could maybe use semi permanent threadlock but you may have to take care with that.
PS: This may not be such an issue on the Tiger as the bleeders have a fine thread, on my previous BMW they used a coarse threaded large size bleeder which was a pig to seal.
Its really easy to pull bubbles back into the line if you are trying to do it too fast. The Mighty Vac works very well...try closing the fitting, then open it back up 1/8 to 1/4 turn at a time until you get the fluid flowing (under vacuum), this should eliminate pulling air into the line.
I've also installed speed-bleeders so I can address brake issues in the field. They are very good at getting out every last bit of air in the brake lines.
http://www.speedbleeder.com/ (http://www.speedbleeder.com/)
Speed bleeders...
http://www.speedbleeder.com/ (http://www.speedbleeder.com/)
I bought the mityvac from Autozone.
Bled the brakes for hours tonight. I am sure I flushed all the old fluid out as the stuff coming out was almost totally clear.
Bled both front calipers like crazy...took em off...held em upside down...even burped the joint at the master cylinder...tried everything I could think of.
Still I can get the lever all the way to the bar! Can't get a firm lever...
I'm going to tie the lever back all night and see if I can get a good burp out of the MC. If that doesn't work then I am at a loss.
Next step is braided lines?
I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks.
pulling the lever back overnight should fix you up. I changed my lines recently and after I bled the brakes with a vacuum they were still a little soft. Tied the lever back overnight and it was all good the next day.
Elastic band over the lever over night,worked when I encountered my first disc brake in 74 and still does now.
Well, after sitting overnight...
I pulled the MC cap off, then slowly released the lever and pumped it a few times to see if I could get any more bubbles out of it. I think a few popped out and the lever feels about the best it has ever felt, but still not quite where I would like it.
The levers on my VFR come down and are hard as a rock.
I might try cleaning the calipers out and see if that helps. I did grease the alignment pins before I put the new brake pads in.
Quote from: "jwray76"pulling the lever back overnight should fix you up. I changed my lines recently and after I bled the brakes with a vacuum they were still a little soft. Tied the lever back overnight and it was all good the next day.
Make sure the calipers and pistons are clean, then make sure they slide properly on their pins. Having gone over mine, the brakes are the best I've ever had them, both in terms of their effectiveness and the lever feel. The other side of the next winter and it will be back to square one though.
Now, my '99 Speed Triple - lever goes back to the bars but I'm buggered if I can get any more air out!
Quote from: "lobster"Well, after sitting overnight...
I pulled the MC cap off, then slowly released the lever and pumped it a few times to see if I could get any more bubbles out of it. I think a few popped out and the lever feels about the best it has ever felt, but still not quite where I would like it.
The levers on my VFR come down and are hard as a rock.
I might try cleaning the calipers out and see if that helps. I did grease the alignment pins before I put the new brake pads in.
Quote from: "jwray76"pulling the lever back overnight should fix you up. I changed my lines recently and after I bled the brakes with a vacuum they were still a little soft. Tied the lever back overnight and it was all good the next day.
Do it again,and whats this more bubbles!!,put the cover back and leave it,if the elastic band trick doesn't do it,you've a leak somewhere.
Another, less sanitary method, is to use a syringe and push fluid up through. Its a method I've had to use on trials bikes, with tiny hydraulic clutch systems. Traditional bleeding just doesn't cut it as the master cylinder pushes so little fluid...and systems are incredibly sensitive and finicky.
Fill the syringe with fluid, attache hose between syringe and caliper. Now remove reservoir cap. Cover tank and anything else with towels, plastic and anything else you can find. Open the bleeder at the caliper and push the fluid up through and out the master cylinder reservoir. Bubbles want to rise? Lets help them some :lol:
Then get the bike outside ASAP and hose off all the fluid you've dribbled all over the place.
Messy?...yup. But it works.
Quote from: "Chris Canning"Elastic band over the lever over night,worked when I encountered my first disc brake in 74 and still does now.
Ditto that...after pushing just under 500ml of fluid through I got fed up, tied the lever back and went for a beer or two. Next day a quick release of the nipples and a top up of the reservoir and the brakes where spot on :D
I am about at my witts end...
Tried the zip tie back and they are better but not great.
Today I tried putting pipe thread seal tape on the nipples and re-bleeding. I think the brake fluid just ate up the seal tape in a few minutes.
Tried burping the the system at the MC again...then kept bleeding and bleeding....cant get a firm lever.
I'm gonna try one more zip tie back and quick bleed tomorrow.
Do you think I maybe have a damaged seal in the MC or water in the system or a damaged brake line? Can I get a MC rebuild kit? Worth it to try new Galfer lines? or am I just chasing my tail?
Please help!
empty calipers and lines take a lot of brake fluid .............sounds to me like the master is going dry while bleeding thus inducing more air into system .
if you can't get em done with a mighty vac then you have an air leak somewhere in the system .
when replacing the fluid you generally need to stop and refill the master a couple of times while bleeding before it goes empty
Quote from: "lobster"I am about at my witts end...
Tried the zip tie back and they are better but not great.
Today I tried putting pipe thread seal tape on the nipples and re-bleeding. I think the brake fluid just ate up the seal tape in a few minutes.
Tried burping the the system at the MC again...then kept bleeding and bleeding....cant get a firm lever.
I'm gonna try one more zip tie back and quick bleed tomorrow.
Do you think I maybe have a damaged seal in the MC or water in the system or a damaged brake line? Can I get a MC rebuild kit? Worth it to try new Galfer lines? or am I just chasing my tail?
Please help!
Not a zip tie you want an elastic band
Quote from: "Mustang"empty calipers and lines take a lot of brake fluid .............sounds to me like the master is going dry while bleeding thus inducing more air into system .
Hmm, so just how much does the system hold :?: I reckon not that much as the hose bores are minimal and the calipers wont take that much :?: Certainly not the ammount I blew through :oops:
Lobster, when I did mine...I had replaced the pistons and seals in both calipers so the system was empty. I bled through from the lever...no posh vac systems here. Tried the offside(to me) tie up of the caliper due to the over mudguard pipe and that still didnt work.
Eventually tried the tie back of the lever..but... I seem to recall bleeding the nipples before removing the tie back..
ps. pointless changing the lines are they are braided anyway :wink: it was a pig of job, but stick with it :)
Quote from: "Mustang"empty calipers and lines take a lot of brake fluid .............sounds to me like the master is going dry while bleeding thus inducing more air into system .
if you can't get em done with a mighty vac then you have an air leak somewhere in the system .
when replacing the fluid you generally need to stop and refill the master a couple of times while bleeding before it goes empty
Thanks, but got this one covered. I get up and put fluid in the res every few sips with the mity vac. I don't think it's going dry.
I've been thru almost two bottles of fluid. I'm guessing leak in the system, which is why I asked about the MC rebuild kit?