TigerTriple.com

Hi there,

I'm just about to buy a '99 tiger 885i.but I got some unanswered questions in my head...

I used to ride thumpers,carbed bikes.So didn't give a damn about sensors or any other digital parts except cdi unit all the time.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom,I've read some topics here and started to figure out things a bit.

Questions:

1-The bike I want to buy is working at rich mixture and has the idle speed like 3000 rpm's.I think it's the O2 sensor.??

2-I've heard that '99 tigers got different ECU's and some other parts than '00 and '01 models.Is it true??

3-I can't find any triumph service to plug the bike via OBD II and check things in digital,got any advice to do some self-made solutions?
Like buying an universal cable and doing the software check myself.

Just shocked a bit after using simplest,trouble free Old fashioned Dual sport bikes...

:shock:

4-The bike is moving a little when changing gears while stopping,dealer told me that the clutch discs have changed a few months ago....
Is this normal with Tigers??

5-I haven't found any manuals for this bike,I also want to check compression of pistons before I buy it,so I need min. and max. compression values.


By the way,the bikes mileage is 60000.Sounds mechanically good.

A 99 bike is an 885i rather than the later 955s, The whole engine is different from the later bikes and the ECU is a different beast altogether. The early ones are twice the size of the later ones. Haynes do a manual which would give you most of the compression values.

If it's moving when you put it into gear, my guess would be the clutch is dragging, either adjust, if that fails to cure it the clutch basket may be notched, that's a strip down and either fettle or replace.

3000 rpm at idle is hope less, should be 11/1200, only way to adjust these is in the ECU and yes you can buy a cable and there is free software out there from TuneECU.

OK according to Haynes (Don't take this as gospel, they often make mistakes) There is no set figures for compression, but genrally the range is from 140 to 200 psi, that's 10 to 14 bar, anything out of those should be considered suspect, and a variance of more than 25psi between cylinders should also be investigated.

The check should be done HOT, in other words run to operating temp then take the plugs out.


YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED  :lol:

Thanks for the comments.

I've bought it,

It's a beast really.The clutch is just allright,and the bike is not idlin' high,its got the throttle open.

But also good response to throttle??? (TPS ???)

Very very low rate of air in fuel mixture...

I've got lots of trouble,sometimes it's climbing up to 4000-4500 rpm's.
 :(

Want to do a digital check Via ECU so I see the non working parts I hope...

Just do yourself a favor and replace the inexpensive IACV stepper, IACV gasket,  TB gasket, and TPS sensor right away. If money grew on trees I'd say also go ahead and replace the crankshaft sensor, which is what I did, and it was the last thing to make the bike run like new. I bought it with 50K miles in August, and it wouldn't even idle. Fast forward two months and the previous owner is regreting to have sold it.

I would replace the things the ECU need to correctly manage the engine BEFORE messing with the A/F settings in the ECU. You shouldn't need to fix anything in the map if sensors and actuators are OK.

Thanks,

I've also noticed that the fuel pressure regulator had no hose attached to it.

I'm away from my bike right now,I'll strip it down and check everything when I'm back home.

Quote from: "Hassan"Thanks,

I've also noticed that the fuel pressure regulator had no hose attached to it....

Not sure I understand how that can work, the fuel rail is running at pump pressure???

If so, it would explain a helluva lot of your running issues.  With above normal fuel pressure, the metering of the fuel injectors is all ****ed up and she's getting far more fuel than she should.

I suspect the sensor is faulty too, otherwise why would the PO disconnect it?  Don't assume faulty though, no point in wasting money.

After around 2004 IIRC there was no hose attached to the regulator (the round plated object with a spigot sticking out of the side of the pump mounting plate). All it does is to monitor ambient air pressure to provide a reference - air doesn't flow in or out.

so...
That Sagem part has no hose attached to it...
The one that's seen with a hose in the picture.(on the right side of panel)

Maybe the bike is just freely burnin' what the fuel pump pumps to the injectors...

So the revolution per minute goes up and up...

Dunno,this bike is really complicated.

Wish to be able to do a check up with obd II.

And order all parts I need in one package.

Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"

Quote from: "Hassan"Thanks,

I've also noticed that the fuel pressure regulator had no hose attached to it....

Not sure I understand how that can work, the fuel rail is running at pump pressure???

If so, it would explain a helluva lot of your running issues.  With above normal fuel pressure, the metering of the fuel injectors is all ****ed up and she's getting far more fuel than she should.

I suspect the sensor is faulty too, otherwise why would the PO disconnect it?  Don't assume faulty though, no point in wasting money.

Aw...

If the injectors also damaged becouse of high pressure...

I'm really Doomed!!!!

 :shock:  :(  :idea:

Thanks a lot for all replies!

No, ignore my comment, I misunderstood what you said, Iansoady's explained.

My tank sideplate doesn't look anything like that so I was puzzled by you remark, that's all.

After a midnight ride I've understood that when the bike is forced to rev less (with brakes),It just goes to normal until I open throttle again.

I mean when I'm riding it opens throttle like I'm twisting the handgrip a little,but after braking and lowering rpm to around 1800...It goes back to normal.Just idling...

Maybe this will guide to find the problem...

So,

I've rode it on a long trip and burnt very much gas than I expected!

I'm also suspectin' the fuel pump regulator...

I think a '99 Girly just can't spend that much gas even IACV stays fully closed and all sensors are in bad condition (25 miles per gallon or 10 liters in 100 km's)

Anyway,I never regret to have this bike  :P

Any ideas?

You still don't seem to have checked the obvious - IACV sticking / leaks in pipework / throttle bodies.

FI engines' idling speed is not controlled by a throttle stop like carburated engines. They work by bleeding a controlled amount of air into the throttle bodies via the IACV (stepper motor). The amount this opens is determined by the ECU monitoring the engine speed and supplying more / less air.

The ECU then calculates the correct amount of fuel to inject based on the map wrt to engine speed etc.

I really find it hard to believe you're only getting 25mpg - I get 50 from my 04 model (UK gallons) although I don't go howling around at 10,000 rpm all day. Using that much petrol there's be black smoke out of the exhaust and the plugs would be filthy.

You know I know it sounds nit picking,but having relooked at the photo posted,is the bike stock??,I see the tank and body work are black,they never made a black 885i,so if the photo is original,someone had been messing about with it,and what else??

Or is it Blue?? and I'm barking up the wrong tree,but Bob the early 955's are the same as that.

And surely in this kind of situation,how far away is a dealer.

Thanks for all replies.

@Ian,

I've left my bike to an older mechanic I know for years,
He told me that the bike needs a complete IACV system with pipes and also the sensors...

And the bike ****ed up 15 spark plugs! :evil:

But the bike seriously "bursts" away the gas away from the exhoust,
I mean it feels like over compressed...


@Chris,

It ain't my bike I just found the picture in website...

So,

I'm affraid to buy many parts for nothing,so I just want to be sure if someone has similiar symptoms...

For example;
What if the bike has a bad workin' ECU??
After spending a thousand euros,it couldn't be nice to hear...


I just want to be sure and order parts in one package that's all...

Just becouse I live far away from the land I can find parts locally,
And sadly here we got no Triumph service to plug the bike into machine.

You don't need Triumph to look into the ECU, read the sticky on TuneECU and do it yourself.

A spare ECU can be had for around £90 (dunno what that is in Turkey money).  I doubt it's what you need but if you decide to go that way, you can fit any Triumph SAGEM 1000 (from Speed triple, Daytona etc) and use TuneECU to blow in the right map.  Don't be scared, we'll help ya!!

I think the first step should be Tune ECU and cable, costs virtually nothing in the great scheme of things and may tell you all you need to know (fault codes) what tune it has and you also always have it for any other time.

Thanks guys,I'll try that software first.

Cheers.

PM me if you get stuck!

Hi again

I'm sure that my bike is running at pump pressure,haven't checked the relays yet but found something;

When I deattach the bottom o-ring of the regulator fuel line pressure goes down and the engine stops.

I've pressed on the return hose a little and find the spot,bike gone just normal (no black smoke)

Can someone tell me where is the fuel pressure regulator need connected to?

As U know,this part (fuel pressure regulator) works similiar to a valve...
When air comes in (or out I don't know) It opens itself and lets the fuel back to the gastank and lowers the fuel pressure...

So...

I've solved half of the problem right now...

I've heard there is a vacuum line...

The question is simple,Where do I need to plug that thing?

Sorry mate, I can'y help as mine's an 05.  Someone will be along shortly though...

Hassan...
One thing most of us know about the Tiger is that rarely is one 'bad';
Usually it's a common problem  or a bike has not been cared for well and allowed to 'build-up problems. I think that with a little patience you'll have those issues corrected one by one.

The '99 Tigers are pretty reliable. They were the first step in new body and FI, but there are many still being ridden today.

You are right... this forum has some folks that can help you. Sometimes it just takes another set of ears to 'turn on the light'....

Be patient.

I think it connects to your airbox. I'll check when I get home. I forget... the hose runs to the right hand side of the motor, under the fuel tank and connects somewhere over there. The hose wasn't more than 50cm long I think. I'll update the post once I look at mine.

Thanks people,U know it's very hard to have an ultra-rare bike.

Firstly I wanted to make a digital check but my lovely ecu has a weird,huge and ugly connection cable,so I wasn't sure that it will fit a standart OBDII...

That's right,it's the first step of fuel injected tigers and only this model (1999) is using SAGEM S2000 T3...

Weird and big as an auto hi-fi amplifier!! :)

I'm adding a picture of the fuel pump regulator...

Thanks Walker.

yep - that's the one. It can be rotated as well... on the outside of the metal plate is a retaining clip or something holding it in place, the seal to the inside is through an O ring.

Those are strange looking fuel fittings. Probably a good alternative to the ones team triumph is selling.

Yep, pipe goes to the right hand side of the airbox, but I cannot remember wether it goes into the airbox or onto the vacuum tubes there. I think it's the airbox.

Definitely the airbox, i think it's listed as 20 on here:


http://www.bikebandit.com/2000-triumph- ... #sch564376 (http://www.bikebandit.com/2000-triumph-tiger/o/m17581#sch564376)

that's something for the barometric sensor.... the one that wraps around to the pressure regulator is #10 in that diagram.... I ordered that part to replace the one I had which was split.

From underneath the right side of the airbox, it routes down, then back over the fuel rail, then along the underside of the tank, to the side where you have the picture of your fuel fittings.

(http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=454)

(http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=455)

on the left side, it just curls around and attaches to that regulator...

(http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=106)

You should rotate the regulator to point forward.

Thanks a lot.

 :hello2

I'll try it soon as possible.

My regulator is 90% down I think...

Just a point of interest - later bikes like my 04 don't have a pipe attached to the regulator as all that does is to sense atmospheric pressure as a reference so there's no flow in or out. So don't worry about it.....

I'm actually thinking in changing the small o-ring with a thinner one for saving the day (at least until I order the parts) :twisted:   :twisted:   :twisted:

Just joking.

Quote from: "John Stenhouse"Yep, pipe goes to the right hand side of the airbox, but I cannot remember wether it goes into the airbox or onto the vacuum tubes there. I think it's the airbox.

What about that vacuum tubes John????

Do you mean IACV tubes?

Yep, ignore me Hassan, I meant the IACV tubes and they are nothing to do with that tube. Better advice from man with pictures above.

okay.

Allright,

I did a Tuneecu check with my bike!

the fault codes are;

P0463 - Fuel level sensor circuit high input
P0105 - Barometric pressure sensor circuit malfunction
P0230 - Fuel pump relay default
P1231 - Fuel pump relay open circuit or short to ground
P1560 - Sensor supply voltage circuit fault
P0122 - Throttle position sensor low voltage (short to ground or open circuit)
P0113 - Inlet air temperature sensor open circuit or short circuit to battery
P0462 - Fuel level sensor circuit low input
P0123 - Throttle position sensor high voltage or short circuit to battery

And an inoperative fuel pump regulator...

See my PM, you can ignore these for now.  Clear them, run the bike and see if they come back.  Except for the TPS ones I expect not- they are symptomatic of connecting the battery and turning the ign on with no airbox or tank fitted.

I've talked to Triumph mechanics,

They told me that the Ecu on my bike is probably different.

I've take a look at it and seen...

TUNE : 9840

It's from early Daytonas... :idea:

This thing is getting out of control.

Ecu Model : S 2000 T3

Any help will be appreciated.

By the way,I did not get any Fault codes after clearing the older ones...

So,the sensors are allright I think.

Hassan, although your ECU is different to mine, the principles are the same.  I think most of your woes are down to the Daytona map.

I'll PM you ref the map to use.

You're a Saint.

Cheers.

My bike ain't got no O2 sensor...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 :evil:  :evil:

 :BangHead  :BangHead  :BangHead  :BangHead  :BangHead

 :wav

 :ImaPoser

Are you saying it hasn't, and shouldn't have, or it hasn't because someone's removed it and replaced it with a blanking bolt???  :icon_scratch

If it isn't supposed to have one, then the possible reason for your problems are:

1.  It had a Daytona map
2.  In an attempt to get it to run right with the Daytona map they set the Fuel trim stupidly high
3.  they couldn't resolve the problem so sold it to you.
4.  You loaded the right map but still haqve the stupidly high trim.
5.  Try resetting the trim as my PM

Someone removed it.

The Interesting thing is;

Why TuneEcu didn't give any trouble codes about it?

I'm guessing they've fitted an O2 sensor bypass.  You need to find the O2 sensor plug on the main loom - if it's like a 955i it'll be under the tank and airbox, ontop of the cylinderhead near the left coilstick.  The plug will have one purple, one black one white and one grey wire  (that's from mremory but look in the recent PM I sent you to be sure).  My guess is there'll be a black plastic device plugged into it if it's a Dynojet one, or it may just be a resistor across two of the pins if they've done a lashup.  Either will fool the ECU into seeing an O2 sensor.

Right now, I stand by what I said: get the right map in, get the long term trim down to between 4.1 to 4.5 , set the stepper motor steps to about -10 and see how it goes before you throw any more money at it.

Quote from: "Hassan"Someone removed it.

The Interesting thing is;

Why TuneEcu didn't give any trouble codes about it?

The ECU ony registers a fault and stores a DTC for the O2 sensor heater circuit missing.

I recently tried resistors in place of the O2 lambda sensor. a big wire-wound 330 ohm job replaced the heater circuit and a small 1 mega ohm job made the ECU think the sensor was giving 4.3 volts (4.5-4.6v is Lambda-ish). I had wanted to use a 1.2 meg ohm resistor but couldn't get one in time. I had measured a chum's Dynojet plug to get the 330 ohm /1.2 mg ohm values. I could use the plug myself as it was the wrong connector for my bike. It was the wrong connector for his bike too.... ;-)

Good info Chazzy but, as I was trying to get across to Hassan, the whole O2 thing is a bit of a red herring.  The O2 sensor missing isn't going to cause the problems Hassan is having.  He needs to get the bike back to base settings first.  He's been running a Daytona map with an long term fuel trim of over 11  :shock:

Most likely, the previous owner or his dealer removed the O2 sensor because it wasn't working not realising that the non functioning O2 sensor had already wound the trim up to 11.  When it wouldn't run right they sold it on.  Only guessing of course but the theory fits.

If he gets the base settings right, it'll run somwhere near normal, then he can work through the fine fettling until it's ok.

Thanks,

I'm afraid they also not fitted an O2 eliminator...

 :shock:  :BangHead

On the right side,there's a Lonely black socket...

With six pins and four wires on it,he's waitin' for the day he'll transmit volts again...

 :cry:  :?:
 :D

I'm interested in bypassing it,if I can fit the voltage to "normal" settings,it'll be alright and save my 100 GBP's.

I'll do the tuneecu settings in the afternoon.

Quote from: "Hassan"I'm interested in bypassing it,if I can fit the voltage to "normal" settings,it'll be alright and save my 100 GBP's.

"Bypassing" the O2 sensor is done with a pair of resistors, as per my earlier post. I used a 3 watt wire-wound 330ohm resistor across the sensor heater pair, as I'd read of smaller sized components getting very hot. For the sensor itself, I used a small metal film resistor.

Is it alright if I fit the voltage to 4.5?

My bike is a '99 Tiger.

Quote from: "ChazzyB"

Quote from: "Hassan"I'm interested in bypassing it,if I can fit the voltage to "normal" settings,it'll be alright and save my 100 GBP's.

"Bypassing" the O2 sensor is done with a pair of resistors, as per my earlier post. I used a 3 watt wire-wound 330ohm resistor across the sensor heater pair, as I'd read of smaller sized components getting very hot.

Not sure why that should be as with 14 volts across it it's only going to be taking .04 amps ie around .5 watts.....

But probably better to be safe.

I'm sorry guys,There's a misunderstanding (My Fault)

My bike is actually a Kawasaki KLR 650 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

HAAAHHH HAH HHAHH HAHHH....

 :D  :D  :D

Just joking.

My bike actually doesn't have any O2 sensor as original,so just like in Sprint models the O2 thing is manually adjusted.

I've seen the O2 sensor in the parts locator and thought it's on 99 models but it belongs to mark II of 885i's I think (model 2000)

Hmm,what's that black socket then???(next to the injector sockets near the starter solenoid,with four cables and six pins on it)

This thing is getting more complicated in each step...

:icon_scratch

It's probably the redundant socket that folks ask about from time to time.  Can't remember what it was for, but it's not used on the Tiger.

So you never had an O2 sensor, but you have a Daytona map.  I can't think what the previous owner / dealer was up to.  Hopefully resetting the trim will be a step forward.

What I'd give to have this in my workshop for an afternoon instead of trying to help from 1000 miles away...  :roll:

Now I'm considering coming up with a fictitious problem with my Tiger just to have an excuse to bring it to your shop ... always wanted to ride through your neck of the woods  :wink:

Given the lack of success with Chazzy B, Metalguru or Hassan's issues, you'd be a brave man  :roll:

Meanwhile, I'm running fairly happy with the new Triumph tune  :)

what can I say ... they're made of brass  8)

Besides I've heard good things about this warm beer tradition you fellas got going on across the pond ...  I mean that's just weird .. but I'll try anything twice  :D

Thanks Guys.

It's hard to understand why it started to have a high tickover just after the Tps resetting...

Changin' the stepper and CO settings helped the rich running problem I think.

Thanks Bob.

I've got two questions

1- How can I detach the TPS of this bike?(There is no space between frame and Tps)

2- Can Tuneecu recognise a problem on Pump relay?Or should I check it myself?

Hassan, you have to remove the injector body to get the TPS off so you need a gasket for that too.  Be careful with the 6 torx screws that hold them in place, they are soft and easy to round out.  Use a good torx bit!!

Thanks again Bob.

Hey guys,

Don't get mad at me but I think I've got a TOR Exhoust...

The output of the exhoust is big as 25-30 mm (I can put two fingers in)

Quote from: "Hassan"Hey guys,

Don't get mad at me but I think I've got a TOR Exhoust...

The output of the exhoust is big as 25-30 mm (I can put two fingers in)

The TOR exhaust usually has "Not for road use" stamped on it... :wink:

No sign of writings...

Maybe previous owner did some work on it?

Look at the pic.

Sorry I ain't got a closer pic for now.

Pic needs to show the end of the can, although to honest I can't remember what it looks like, goat a Blue Flame on mine.... :roll:

I've read the writings on it,they are close to the mid section,so I didn't found 'em in the first look...

They are;

TRIUMPH 220 0240

e11 0077

This Triumph exhaust system 220 0240 meets EPA noise emission requirements of 80dBA for the following motorcycles SMT 708 0885

Installation of this system on motorcycle models not specified may violate federal law.

...

 :roll:

Looks like it's the stock one.

Here it is...

Yup, looks like a stocker to me...

Hmm...

The output (inner one) looks a bit big to me...

No customisation?

I've lowered the Idle Fuel Trim to -60...

Even now it's rich running.

 :?:

Certainly go with BB on this one it does look like a stocker but the tail pipe looks short. Best to stick a long piece of wire down the tail pipe to see if the core plug baffles have been removed.

Turns a stocker into a TOR.
Would never dream of doing that AHEM!!!

Thanks I'll take a look today,

By the way,

Stepper position: 50
IFT: -50

 :shock:

:D:D:D:D:D

Better now.

I'll replace sparkplugs and clean the airfilter (hopefully today)

Yesterday I've got crazed and set the IFT to -100  :shock:   :shock:

:D:D:D

It can run still rich if there is not enough air...

So I'm focused more to the "breathing" of the bike.

So,erm...

The bike was doin' some poppings out of the throttle flaps...

After changin' the spark plugs it still does.

it stops when I close IACV with my hand...

?????

more air = inner poppings???

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Damn it,it's still getting complicated in each step...

Cheers guys.

Hassan, when we talk about popping, we're talking about out of the ehaust.  Are you saying you have popping out of the throttle bodies  :shock:

If you have, it's one of two things (maybe more but I've not thought about it hard yet) either you have nil valve clearance, or your ign timing is way out.  You've not touched the IGN table in Tune ECU have you?

No,I didn't touch the Ignition table.

Intake Valves are also effectin' fuel consumption.

Ok,where,s the T mark?

.........

SH*T!!!

I'll take her to a mechanic.