Zombie here
My pc crashed and I lost all my info including all my passwords so I re-registered.
Anyway here's my question
I'm going to replace the rings on my 2001 Girly
Do I need to drop the motor or can I do it with the motor in the frame,
or is it easier to just drop the motor out of the frame
cheers
it can be done in the frame ...............but you have to strip the bike pretty well for access to the top of the motor to get the head off .
IE , radiator, headers , throttle bodies and so on .
once you are at the point you can do the rings ....there is only 4 more bolts holding the engine in . sometimes it is less work to remove it it and put it on the bench than it is to try and work around dropping the engine .
Cheers
Thats what I figured
also my basement will be nice and warm for doing the job with the motor out
I'll start a thread after christmas detailing the job with pics
Before I forget Mustang
I'm getting some more of them hardly-moving stickers
do ya want some??
Quote from: "zombie2"Cheers
Before I forget Mustang
I'm getting some more of them hardly-moving stickers
do ya want some??
love to have one ..............thanks
I've got the bike stripped down except for the throttle bodies.
I'm missing the 5 pages on head removal and replacement from my factory manual , so I'm looking for the head bolt replacement sequence and the torque values also what size torx I need
any help much appreciated
PM sent :wink:
Thanks BB e-mail sent :wink:
Gotta ask. Why are you needing to change the rings?
Quote from: "zombie2"Thanks BB e-mail sent :wink:
I discovered that both my copies of the manual, from different sources, are the same as Zombie's ie pages are missing. Can anyone else help?
He needs pages 3-20 to 3-25. Our copy jumps from 3-19 to 4-1
Cheers :?
Quote from: "Sasquatch"Gotta ask. Why are you needing to change the rings?
After 70k and tons of abuse it's burning more oil than I like about a quart every 600 miles , and I'm curious to have a look at the inside of the motor.
Sounds fair. Mine has 50k on it. While mine goes through some oil, I am convinced it is blowing out the breather into the air box. I need to do the breather seals but I will probably update the dipstick to the newer, longer one and run a lower oil level like they did on the later 955's. Hopefully the combination takes care of it.
I know it's rings
When I get on the throttle I get a nice puff of blue smoke and my plugs are showing signs of oil burning and it has been progressivley getting worse.
I figured it was down to blasting across the dakotas in 114 degrees and it got low on oil and starved the rings slightly.
Just ordered the Haynes manual for it so should be good to go.
My bikes are normally rats but my motors are always tight and if something is not right then I'll sort it out.
By the way I just picked up a stock shock for the thing , can you rebuild it for me? as I hate that stupid hagon
Quote from: "zombie2"I know it's rings
When I get on the throttle I get a nice puff of blue smoke and my plugs are showing signs of oil burning and it has been progressivley getting worse.
I figured it was down to blasting across the dakotas in 114 degrees and it got low on oil and starved the rings slightly.
Just ordered the Haynes manual for it so should be good to go.
My bikes are normally rats but my motors are always tight and if something is not right then I'll sort it out.
By the way I just picked up a stock shock for the thing , can you rebuild it for me? as I hate that stupid hagon
The stock one can not be done. Sucks. I can rework the Hagon though if your interested. It has pretty pathetic valving in it.
I can also source HyperPro replacement shocks for it which are a huge step up over the Hagons.
I will take the Hagon off your hands if it is in your way :D
And so the fun begins.
Tore into the bike today and took photo's of the process along the way.
First off I'm not a mechanic so this info is for entertainment purposes only
Now having said that I'm having a mate who is really good with all things oily and mechanical helping me do the job and without him I'd have a hard time doing this.
So here goes.
First things first is to remove the motor out of the bike.
I'm not going to detail that bit to much but you need to strip the radiator and exhaust headers and assorted odds and sods off the bike .
It's important to loosen the swingarm bolt as this will release the tension of the frame on both sides of the rear motor mounts
No need to take off the throttle bodies.
Nice and empty bike , amazing how light this thing is without an engine.
Picture with me mechanical mate holding the bike
Now comes the serious bit.
Fist off I raided the missus store of sheets and put one on the lift so I could lay everything out nice and neat like.
I know what I'm going to have to get for the crimbo for the bedroom
Then turned the motor on it's side and took off the oil sump to have a gander at the crank and connecting rods.
Their are no barrells on the bike like a conventional motor, the upper crankcase and barrells are all one piece. Well bugger that anyhow
So according to the factory manual we're supposed to split the crankcases to access the rings , well hang on spanky , maybe not.......stay tuned.
Okay so
Had a good look at the underneath bit and Liamsey (that would be the mechanic and owner of an 05 silver tiger) reckoned we could get at all the con-rod bolts from underneath. Put the oil sump back on and turned the motor upright again.
Removed the valve cover and gasket. At this point we checked the valve clearances and wrote down the results.
We started to remove the bolts that hold the cam shafts in and found one the was starting to strip the torx socket , so we used a vice grips to get it started. Crappy design and they should have used allen bolts as the torx strip to easily in my opinion.
We released the tension on the cam chain and removed the housing
We wired the cam chain to the head to stop it falling into the motor
We put all the bolts and caps in labeled baggies so I know where they will go later
Now We removed the cam shafts and put a cable tie on the rear one so We know where it goes later.
Next we took out the shim and bucket set ups making note of where they went.
I took the time to write down which were intake and which exhaust
I emptied a drawer in my tool box and laid a piece of paper down with the buckets laid out in the sequence they will go back into the bike and numbered accordingly
So all thats left is to take off the head.
Their is an oil line that feeds into the head on the left underneath the throttle bodies that needs to come off.
Next we remove the two small torx bolts on the outside of the head on the left.
Then remove the head bolts and tap the head and remove.
Well would ya look at all that carbon on the top of the pistons
So well pleased so far as the liners are really nice , the cross hatching is visible and no scoring on the liner walls....result.
So next thing is to turn the motor on it's side again and try and remove the connecting rods and pistons
this bit was really tricky and requires a steady hand and patience.
Vital to keep track of the removal process so everything lines up correctly.
Take the end caps off and remove , then push the piston up thru the barrell using a wooden drift if possible and hey presto
We utilised a long 3/8 extension with a knuckle joint to get at the con-rod caps.
Took the first one out and the big end bearings look all spangly and shiny with no visible sign of wear.
After all the pistons were out we looked at the rings and tho it's hard to see in the pics the oil rings on all pistons were worn , as they should have a razor edge on them but these ones were worn.
So thats it until next week when we start re-assembly.
In the meantime I'm going to clean up the piston crowns and remove all the gunk and give them a bit of a polish.
So stay tuned for next week's thrilling installment as getting the big end caps back on will be a challenge but we feel it's doable with patience and cups of tea and biscuits
And a random pic of me and liamsey on our tigers at the laconia rally in New Hampshire heading up to Mount washington.
Hopefully all going well we'll be there next june on our bikes
Your now missing a step. The piston liners (cylinders) are just held into the crankase with Hylomar (sp?). You have potentially disturbed them so they MUST be removed, cleaned, and re-glued back into place.
Quote from: "Sasquatch"Your now missing a step. The piston liners (cylinders) are just held into the crankase with Hylomar (sp?). You have potentially disturbed them so they MUST be removed, cleaned, and re-glued back into place.
We have been wondering about that too , and we're going to whip them out to clean them up
Anyone else out there with suggestions , let us know as we're all ears and this is a first for both of us doing this so useful comments are more than welcome
you will need the hylomar or the liners WILL leak coolant into the crankcase :shock:
Bike bandit will be able to get it to you faster than the dealers usually
you can find it on bike bandits schematic for the cylinders and connecting rods on the 1998 tiger schematic .........it's pricey $35 a tube , but it works .
Bike bandits part # is 1399754
Triumphs part # is (5578228-001)
Cheers boys
Ordered up the Hylomar and we are in the process of making our own liner extraction tool , Triumph want 200 bux for a friggin puller , nuts.
In the meantime we will be cleaning up the head and pistons.
We still think we can achieve all this without splitting the crankcases.
I'm in no rush to put it back together so it'll be done right as I really really like this bike and it's one of the very few motorcycles I've held onto and I've dealt in hundreds as I use to export the things.
I've yet to come across a bike that does everything I want as well as this one.
So Tonight we cleaned up the pistons and the head.
Carefully we removed the carbon off the piston crown using the air compressor with a soft cleaning head attached to the air drill.
We spent some time with a dentist pic cleaning the recess where the valves sit into the piston top.
We then cleaned the cyclinder head and cleaned up the valves and around them.
Lastly we did a leakdown test on the head itself and everything is tickety-boo
and is all sealed nicely.
No I didn't put O'douls into the head for the leak down test as that would be a waste of my favorite beverage but I did use sili-kroil which is an aircraft type lubricant and penetrant.
Next is removing the liners , I'm hoping to get a liner extractor saturday and then we can start the rebuild
Just a quick update.
Still waiting for the oil sump gasket to arrive and the hylomar,
we also have fabricated our own liner removal tool.
I'm off for the xmas to Atlanta and will be back the 1st week of january
and then we will start putting it all back together
cheers
Alrighty
Back into the workshop tonight and we got a lot accomplished.
First thing I did this morning was take a drive up to the boys at performance cycles in Shrewsbury Masachusetts.
They are a Triumph dealer and my mate Keith is their parts guy and the lads in service kindly loaned me their liner removal tool which made my life a lot easier, really appreciated that one.
After removing all the cylinder liners and cleaning them up , we had to decide how to go about re-assembly.
After perusing the different manuals and mainly the haynes , we decided to put the connecting rods onto the crankshaft and then install the new rings.
Nest thing was to get the pistons ready.
Having not split the crankcase this was going to be tricky as the #3 piston was going to be the most difficult.
We applied moly grease to the back side of the shell bearings to hold them in place , then applied oil to the face of the bearings as you want a film of oil between the bearings and the crankshaft
Getting the rod cap on was a pain but after a few attempts we manged to get the nuts to thread onto the rod bolts.
We used an extension with a knuckle attachment and threaded the nuts finger tight.
We also applied lock-tite to all the nuts
Our next step was to set up the torque wrench , we had a 1/4 inch digital wrench ready.
We torqued the nuts to 14nm by stages alternating back and forth.
For the next stage your supposed to use a degree wheel but that was not an option for us as there is no room.
After torquing the nuts you go an extra 120 degrees.
We knew that the degree wheel was not an option going into this, so we figured out on a six sided nut one side or face is equal to 60 degrees so we needed to tighten up two sides.
We tightened up by very small increments till we were satisfied we got the 120degreees, very time consuming but an important step and vital in the re-assembly process
Next was to install a new oil sump gasket and oil screen
We applied vaseline to both sides of the oil sump gasket as that will save the gasket if I ever have to take the sump off again.
Cleaned up the inside of the sump and installed and then put on a new oil filter.
My plan is to run the bike for a couple of hundred miles on regular oil and then drain it.
Next step is to do the rings , liners and head gasket.
Happy new year to all and I'll be back to this next week sometime
Back into the workshop last night.
We got the new rings onto the pistons being careful to space them apart as per the manual.
The two top rings have an N stamped on them and they get installed with the N facing up.
After that We applied the Hylomar blue onto the cylinder liners and carefully installed over the rings.
I have a tube of this stuff now so if anyone needs it let me know and ya can have it
The liners slid easily enough over the rings without having to use a ring compressor. The bottom of the liner is chamfered inwards and that makes the job a little easier.
Carefully using a soft mallet with a plastic ruler laid over the liner we gently tapped the liner into place making sure it lined up exactly as it was taken out.
We had marked both the front and the side of the liners so we knew how to re-install without gettting mixed up.
After installing the liners we lubed up the cylinder walls with a liberal coating of oil.
Now we were ready for the head gasket.
The new head gasket sits on top of two dowels which holds the gasket in place.
Next we installed the head in place and finger tightened the head bolts. I aplied a coating of anti-seize to the head bolts.
The cam chain was pulled up using wire and tightened to hold in place.
We tightened the head bolts in 3 stages going from 20NM to 27 NM and finally tightening 90 degrees. To achieve that we used a red marker to mak the bolt and the head so it all lined up correctly.
Next is installing the camshafts.
Firstly I applied a nice coating of oil to all the shims and buckets and reinstalled them in the order they were removed , it really helped that we wrote everything down and it made the job a lot easier.
The we laid the camshfts in place and replaced the caps and torqued the cap bolts to 12nm.
We rotated the motor to get the timing marks lined up on the crankshaft, then we lined up the arrows on the intake and exhaust camshafts.
Then we took up the slack on the cam chain by using two wrenches and rotating the camshafts so that the arrows on the camshafts lined up and then we installed the cam chain tensioner.
It gave us a little trouble in that it didn't take up all the slack on the chain but a tap of a long screwdriver and it clicked nicely into place.
We installed the cam chain guard and torqued the tensioner bolt to 27 nm.
We rotated the motor a couple of times and checked the timing and it all lined up as it should.
Afetr that I applied a liberal coating of oil to everything to help in getting oil pressure up quickly.
Lastly I installed new spark plugs.
Next is putting on the valve cover and reinstalling the engine.
Lots done last night and I'm in the home stretch with this thing.
Hopefully start it up soon
back at it last night.
Replaced the valve cover and torqued to 10nm.
Now for the hard part getting the motor back into the frame.
I had a couple of mates come over and two of us held while one jacked it back into position so we could get the motor mount bolts in.
Proper bastard of a job but success after much bollocking about
and swearing.
Don't forget to retorque the swingarm pivot bolts as these were loosened to remove the motor.
Not much left now except to hook everything back up and plug it in.
So saturday I'll go back to it and hopefully finish
Hej, with what did you clean the oil sump?
My friend told me to use gasoline, could I use alcohol instead?
Thank you!
edit:
QuoteWe tightened the head bolts in 3 stages going from 20NM to 27 NM and finally tightening 90 degrees. To achieve that we used a red marker to mak the bolt and the head so it all lined up correctly.
I'm not sure what this means? You marked the position before you unscrewed the bolts and then after the third seting you just tightened them till they lined up?
edit 2: just went trough a manual, the "90 degrees" is with the degree disc y/n?
Quote from: "yack_ass"Hej, with what did you clean the oil sump?
My friend told me to use gasoline, could I use alcohol instead?
Thank you!
edit:
QuoteWe tightened the head bolts in 3 stages going from 20NM to 27 NM and finally tightening 90 degrees. To achieve that we used a red marker to mak the bolt and the head so it all lined up correctly.
I'm not sure what this means? You marked the position before you unscrewed the bolts and then after the third seting you just tightened them till they lined up?
edit 2: just went trough a manual, the "90 degrees" is with the degree disc y/n?
After you have the head bolts torqued you then need to tighten them a further 90degrees. If you don't have a degree wheel just figure out 90degrees and mark the bolt and head like I did.
To clean the sump I used sili-kroil and it washed all the crud off nicely.
Yesterday saturday I made a mistake and we just figured it out last night.
So back at it today and hopefully sort it out
with out a degree wheel he did it the old fashioned way ........torgue the bolts to spec then mark them and tighten an additional 1/4 turn . Same result as using a degree wheel :D
It lives and breathes and sounds sweet as a nut.
I'll post more in a bit but I'm off for me tea and biscuits.
Big Big thanks to Mustang for some late night advice last night.
Cheers
Turns out some muppet (that would be me) installed the camshafts backwards :oops:
Anyhow all is well and the motor sounds like it did when I bought it brand new , so result.
Okay now wheres me cuppa :lol: :lol:
Alrighty then
Yesterday was a struggle mainly cos the camshafts were in backwards .
All I have left to do is replace some of the gaskets and button it up.
After firing it up and it started first tip of the starter , it smoked nicely due to the coating of oil in the top end and then cleared right up
Thats about it so.
Really want to thank me mate Liamsey for taking the time to do this project with me , he gave up his nights and weekends and drove over 30 miles to my house every time to help , I'm really grateful.
Also a big thanks to Mustang and bixxer bob for the help.
I learned quite a bit about the bike and it just takes time to dissasemble and put back together.
Keep in mind I'm a back street mechanic and it was as much a learning process as anything else. I wasn't going to pay a dealer to do it so neccessity pushed me to tackle it
I posted this with pics to help anyone thinking of doing it themselves and to avoid my mistakes.
Couple of really important things.
1... Label everything and I mean everything , you'll be glad you did.
2 .... If you are dropping the motor consider making a cradle for it out of 2 by 4's it will make your job easier and last but not least
DO NOT I repeat DO NOT install the friggin camshafts backwards.
I would also like to thank the members on this site that have taken to the time to do the how-to's as it really makes life easy
What I really like about Tiger Triple is the amount of sound advice and help that's available by simply asking.......
Cheers everyone and feel free to add comments that would make the job easier
Later Mick
Well done. Isn't that satisfying when it fires up?
Fantastic! Thanks for taking the time to document it all for the rest of us
Now thats what I call contributing to a forum, well done chaps youve definately earned your keep, proper job, thanks.
I can rework the Hagon though if your interested. It has pretty pathetic valving in it.
Nice offer mate, could you fill out your profile a bit so we know where you are? Ta :D
Quote from: "Annagyijjk"I can rework the Hagon though if your interested. It has pretty pathetic valving in it.
Thanks but I use Sasquatch for all my bouncy up and down needs.
he re-did the hagon for me , my problem is the hagon itself, I think it's a piece of crap.
Going to go with something better when this gives up the ghost.
by the way the big cat is running great and not a drop of oil being burnt ,so result....
I'm taking it up to the triumph Bennington bash first weekend of June in VT.
Alrighty so
Just got back from the Triumph Bennington Bash and put 1000mies on the beast.
Ran flawlessly and felt as good as new , not a drop of oil burned and we did some serious back road scratching and some high speed shennigans.
So well pleased and nicely sorted.
Thanks, Zombie, for very nice and explaining article.
Also my Tiger (955i, 2001) uses too much oil, puffs it from axhaust, and maybe lack some power (or maybe I'm just too used to it and need more power). It has 103k kilometers.
Is piston ring replacement all I need or shold I bore/replace cylinders/pistons? How about head? should something be done on upper end? valve shaft rubbers etc? What else should be renewed on much ridden engine? Chain and tensioner?
It would be very nice to hear a part list that you needed on whole operation, as I have to order everything in advance. Triumph shop up here is quite pathetic and I will get everything online.
Quote from: "viltsu"Thanks, Zombie, for very nice and explaining article.
Also my Tiger (955i, 2001) uses too much oil, puffs it from axhaust, and maybe lack some power (or maybe I'm just too used to it and need more power). It has 103k kilometers.
Is piston ring replacement all I need or shold I bore/replace cylinders/pistons? How about head? should something be done on upper end? valve shaft rubbers etc? What else should be renewed on much ridden engine? Chain and tensioner?
It would be very nice to hear a part list that you needed on whole operation, as I have to order everything in advance. Triumph shop up here is quite pathetic and I will get everything online.
I just finished up my Tiger. Parts wise depends on what you want to do. Bare minimum; head gasket, pan gasket, hypalon for the liners and rings. The top end gasket kit sets you up with valve guide seals and all the top end gaskets. I'd also recommend replacing the big end bolts unfortunately you may not know what you need there until you pull it apart as Triumph used 2 designs. You can't bore the top end on them so if clearances are excessive it's replace the liners time. I just replaced the rings. A t about 41,000 miles or 68,000 km and I could still see the factory cross hatching dimly. Cam chain still had about 50% life left. Do plan on replaceing the bolts holding the caps for the camshafts. mine had siezed to the head and I ended up slotting them and loosening them with a chisel.
When I pulled mine apart I discovered it defenitely had oil in the coolant. Hopefully a new head gasket solved the issue. The head didn't appear warped based on my crude measurements. The new gasket was 4 layers of metal sandwiched together with a heavy sealant ring. Unfortunately I failed to take pictures of it.
An additional tip. I didn't have access to a factory puller so I looked for alternatives. A 3" expansion plumbing plug tightened very tight and a long rod to drive it from the bottom did the trick.