Hi, I have a 1993 Steamer sitting in my garage in pieces. According to the clocks it has 45000 miles on it but i cannot verify that. It has no oil in it. I have some documentation and it last ran about 4 years ago.
I really like the look of the bike and am considering bringing it back to life. I am willing to spend a reasonable sum of money on it over the next six months - maybe as much as a grand. The intention is to keep it as a modest tourer. I am a reasonably able and moderately equipped mechanic and will do as much of the work as possible myself. I have a Haynes manual.
My first query is regarding the engine. Given its age and unknown history my initial thought is to strip the engine and refurb it completely while it is out of the frame. Given your experience what should I be particularly looking at and/or what am I likely to find? Is it worth swapping out the main bearings, pistons, cyclinder liners etc? What about the valve train?
Secondly, to what level can I reasonably expect to restore the bike given its age and availability of spares? And what additional parts are recommended to add to the bike to improve it as part of the refurbishment?
I appreciate this is a somewhat vague query but any assistance, ideas or thoughts would be appreciated. If required, I would be willing to document the process and post the details?
Regards, James
Hi EPO and welcome to the forum. There are others who can answer your questions who will be along soon I'm sure. Meanwhile, regarding the cost, it'll help people help you if we know where you are - the country at least. So please update your profile. As an example, in the UK parts are not so expensive that it wouldn't be worth doing whilst Norway prices would make your eyes water, just ask Harre.....
welcome, you've come to the right place! :D
heres a couple of threads worth looking through as they are recent rebuilds (BRUKENs thread includes his engine strip)
http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/viewto ... sc&start=0 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,7520&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)
and
http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,7427 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,7427)
Neil
there are enough used t309/409 engines out there that have plenty of life left in em and swapping in a engine from a sprint ,trophy, daytona ,trident etc etc , all will fit and the cost will be considerably less than rebuilding one .
But why bother ........if it was me , I would fill it with new oil and fire it up and see what we got .
It will either run ok and save you some money or it will go (http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/emoticons/kboom.gif)
I'm in the middle of rebuilding an engine / tranny on a Buell Lightning (XB series 1) , which is merely air cooled. My costs have already slightly exceeded the cost of buying a used engine on ebay and I'm only a bit more than halfway done.
In theory my rebuild will be better than a used engine because I have the engine disassembled and split, I'm redoing everything from the heads down. I have also avoided the risks involved with an engine with an unknown history. But I'm only halfway there and I'm wondering if it's worth it.
So I'm with Mustang:
1) Insert oil try and start it up!
2) If 1 is not to your liking, look for a used engine.
I have a '96 Sprint that has 45k on it and has been down hard once. It shows no signs of dying. Doesn't even burn oil. I would feel confident taking it to the Yukon and back.
+1 on looking to swap out for good used motor if necessary.
Don't swap out the engine. The 1993 engines are unique in that they have a top plate that allows easy access to the sprag clutch area. Something that may be useful one day :)
45,000 miles is nothing for those early engines. A courier in London, using that engine, but not on a Tiger, did 200,000 miles in two years. Triumph got to hear about it and offered him a new bike in exchange for his old one so that they could take it apart and see how the engine was holding up.
I got my bike at 35,000 and it is now at 66,000 going strong - touch wood.
I recently helped change the liners and rings on a bike which had done 80,000. Although the rings were well past their sell by date, the liners still had the cross hatchings and probably didn't need changing - but the owner insisted.
Out of curiosity, where are you based and what colour is the bike?
Quote from: "Mustang"But why bother ........if it was me , I would fill it with new oil and fire it up and see what we got .
It will either run ok and save you some money or it will go (http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/emoticons/kboom.gif)
+1 on this.
I would change the cam chain and cam tensioner, too :)
Quote from: "CoolHandLuke"Don't swap out the engine. The 1993 engines are unique in that they have a top plate that allows easy access to the sprag clutch area.
AGREE! AGREE!
Gas 'er up and give it a chance first. It might surprise you. I'm sure the carbs need attention after that long and that may be the reason the bike was parked.
Parts are going to blow your $1K cap out of the water. See what you have first then work from there.
Quote from: "JetdocX"Parts are going to blow your $1K cap out of the water. See what you have first then work from there.
I didn't want to put him off, so I kept quiet about that :)
welcome to the site mate. youve come to the right place for advice. it was invaluable when i was rebuildin mine. as for the engine, ive just found a 1200 powered tiger on ebay, so thats my next project 8)
Welcome James.
Quote from: "JetdocX"Gas 'er up and give it a chance first. It might surprise you. I'm sure the carbs need attention after that long and that may be the reason the bike was parked.
Parts are going to blow your $1K cap out of the water. See what you have first then work from there.
I agree to the first bit. Fire her up if the motor is still in the frame and see what transpires. As for cost of rebuild, that very much depends on what damage is present. For £130 for the complete gasket set it's worth stripping the engine down. My engine was in a terrible state but all it needed was a bit of TLC to bring her back to life. I spent very little in the way of new parts. As to what level you can restore the bike... well that's up to you. I thought mine scrubbed up rather well.
Wow! I wasn't expecting such a barrage of responses so quickly! Thanks to everyone already.
Firstly I'm on the Herts/Essex border in Epping, UK - not that far from Rod Stewart's house in fact.
I will read through the threads referred to by Neil D this evening and will probably have more questions.
Coolhandluke - how can I be sure that the engine is a 1993 model please? It is out of the frame at present in a wooden crate. Also, is the Cam chain and tensioner replacement difficult? BTW it is a sky blue colour.
Jetdocx - the carbs are dirty but seem serviceable. There appears to be a broken off cable at one end - could be throttle or choke?
As mentioned this machine has been disassembled for 4 years. It belonged to my brother who is sadly no longer around to advise. The fact that it is in pieces led me to feel that a rebuild would be easier at this stage rather than when the machine is reassembled - your comments appear to indicate that removing the engine is relatively straightforward - is that the case?
Having briefly been through the forum, I can see that there are numerous modifications possible. In your opinions what are the most worthwhile to plan for at this stage?
Many thanks indeed
:lol: :lol:
Why is the engine crated? Usually a good indicator that things are not rainbows and unicorns there.
The 93 has Mikuni carbs. The o-rings in yours are probably turning to dust right about now. They can be had very cheaply. It's time to disassemble the carbs regardless of engine condition. As for the broken cable question, the answer is yes. Both the throttle and the chocke are cable operated, only through two separate cables. Which one is broken and which is missing I cannot tell you, as my 98 has Keihin carbs.
Can you turn the engine over using a wrench on the countershaft sprog nut?
Quote from: "EPO"Wow! I wasn't expecting such a barrage of responses so quickly! Thanks to everyone already.
Firstly I'm on the Herts/Essex border in Epping, UK - not that far from Rod Stewart's house in fact.
I will read through the threads referred to by Neil D this evening and will probably have more questions.
Coolhandluke - how can I be sure that the engine is a 1993 model please? It is out of the frame at present in a wooden crate. Also, is the Cam chain and tensioner replacement difficult? BTW it is a sky blue colour.
Changing the cam chain is fairly easy - especially with the engine not in the frame. The important bit is ensuring the overhead cams are lined up correctly and the timing wheel is in the right place. I would recommend lining up the marks on the cams with the timing wheel and then taking a few photos before starting the work.
I would be happy to come and visit. I live in Bracknell, and it would be a nice ride out (weather permitting :p)
I'll take a picture of my engine later, so you can confirm the cover. In the meantime, I'll do my best at explaining...
On the top of the engine, on the opposite side to the alternator, there will be a flat, bolted on, cover.
Quote from: "JetdocX"Why is the engine crated? Usually a good indicator that things are not rainbows and unicorns there.
The 93 has Mikuni carbs. The o-rings in yours are probably turning to dust right about now. They can be had very cheaply. It's time to disassemble the carbs regardless of engine condition. As for the broken cable question, the answer is yes. Both the throttle and the chocke are cable operated, only through two separate cables. Which one is broken and which is missing I cannot tell you, as my 98 has Keihin carbs.
Can you turn the engine over using a wrench on the countershaft sprog nut?
Second that. The pilot screws tend to get blocked up, so a good clean now, will save a lot of heartache later.
Given the age, it's probably better to replace both cables with new ones as they will both be rusted through by now.
What condition are your wheels in?
The engine is crated simply because there was a crate available when the bike was dismantled I think. The carbs are Mikuni. I will strip and rebuild. I will add new cables to the spares list.
Thanks for the offer Coolhandluke - when I get beyond the planning stage I will take you up on it!
The wheels are quite tidy but the spokes are very corroded. I think they'll clean up okay though.
I haven't tried turning the engine over as its partially buried under a mountain of boxes and hard to get at - first job is to get the garage organised and make some kind of inventory I guess.
Welcome to the forum.
I live in Harrow area, so may be able to help too. I do have a spare engine that may be useful. It was bought as spare about 4 years ago. Never run by me, but turns over (when last checked), and had compression. It may have been raced but I would rather see it reused if your need is greater.
Good luck, and remember LOTS OF PICS please.
take a close look at ya wheels where the spokes come throo the wheel. i had to change my wheels cos they were BADLY corroded. wouldnt have trusted em on the bike, that and the fact no mot tester wouldve passed em. if they passed their sell by date, wheels from a 885 injection will fit. mine are from a 2000 model. better wheels and wider too ;)
http://tigertriple.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight= (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,7540&highlight=)
hope ya wheels dont look like my old ones
Many thanks. I looked through the rebuild threads which I found both inspiring AND daunting as I don't have the same level of mechanical skill. But the end results looked awesome.
I was going to sell the Tiger parts to raise some cash towards a new adventure style bike but the modern bikes don't have the same solid look about them - okay the Steamer may not be a beauty but it does look like it will go round the world and cope with any terrain!
What colour is it?
(I'll keep asking until you tell :p)
It's a blue one but there seem to be a few panels missing. Oh and I can't seem to find a front mudguard unless its buried underneath something or other
Quote from: "EPO"It's a blue one but there seem to be a few panels missing. Oh and I can't seem to find a front mudguard unless its buried underneath something or other
I have a spare blue mudguard if you do decide on the rebuild.
Cheap to forum members! :lol:
Welcome to the forum .
Many thanks Rf9Rider. If I cannot find the mudguard I'll be back to you.
Update: I've been sorting out the garage and trying to do some sort of inventory. Here's what I have so far.
The engine number has the flat plate so I assume it is a 93 model. However, the engine number is DCC7478 but the frame number is *SMTTD430DKP007377* Does this mean the engine is a replacement I wonder? Lots of the cover bolts have been replaced with hex heads in a variety of colours so its been opened up in the past. No records at all.
The calipers look rough. I took one apart for a look and all the rubber seals are perished, the pad pins are corroded and the bleed nipples rounded. On the plus side the pistons look clean and there was still some cleanish fluid in the bodies.
The carbs are better than expected despite being dirty. I gave them a quick spray with carb cleaner and worked them over with a stiff brush. I reckon they'll be good.
Exhaust is all there but the clamps are well corroded. Are the headers stainless as they look very solid? The silencers look okay.
The coils are labelled PVL which I believe is good news!
The engine is well corroded at the front. The exhaust studs are missing completely. In places its a mass of furry white yuck. I scraped a bit away and it looked shiny underneath but pitted. The engine side covers are odd colours - one red and one blue?
There are several big boxes of parts, some of which are bagged up and labelled. The loom is there.
I couldn't find chain. sprockets, swinging arm, rear mudguard, front mudguard, headlamps, iginition block, radiator. There are some other boxes hidden away though.
My big question has got to be is it viable to rebuild this machine or should I sell the parts? My budget is about £1000.
go dig out the rest of your boxes and see what youve got then make a decicion. for a grand you should be able to get it up and runnin again as bits for these bikes do turn up on ebay quite often. just search tiger in motorcycles and accesories. thatll give you a better result than searching specifaclly for a 1993 triumph tiger. theyll be pages of crap ya wont want but ive found allsorts searchin like that.
the calipers will need rebuldin you can get rebuild kits from http://www.triumph-online.co.uk/ (http://www.triumph-online.co.uk/) or http://www.triumphparts.gbr.cc/www.triu ... fo.php?p=2 (http://www.triumphparts.gbr.cc/www.triumphparts.gbr.cc/info.php?p=2)
both a real good sources for bits and pieces dont give up on it, rebuild it. in all the years of driving all sorts of cars and bikes my tiger is the best transport ive ever had. do it right and you wont be dissapointed when its running. just take ya time and if ya not sure, ask ;) someone on here will have an answer.
good luck epo
and when looking for bits, dont forget that the Tigers were built during Triumphs 'modular' years so lots of mechanical bits and switches etc are common across the range, ie Trident/Trophy/Daytona.. the headlights for example are the same..
its a shame its in that many bits, as seeing how it runs would probably determin if its a viable project..
Frame and engine #'s do not match on hinkley bikes from the factory
The budget is going to take a serious hit to get this pig running again .
Missing the major components is going to be costly
and it sounds like the engine is going to seriously eat into the budget t o rebuild .
It's going to be a moneypit !
could you not shop around and find a 93-98 tiger that is in far better condition and is complete and running for your budget of L1000 (approx $1500 US)
sometimes there is a reason why stuff gets parted out or abandoned
Mustang you overtly rational and practical git. It's Valentines tomorrow. Just reminding yer cos I see misery on the horizons :D
I'm thankful for the rational response. I'm looking at it through rose tinted glasses I think. I like the bike but the income from selling the parts could fund a much better bike.
I'm going to do some more searching next weekend. If I cannot track down the remaining bits, I'll ebay what I've got I reckon.
Well Mustangs knowledge is second to none and his input is a major reason behind the technical success of the site. I seem to recall he was less than complimentary when I started YAPI and she scrubbed up well. A project bike is always more about soul and heart than practicality. What is practicality? Your bike as it stands is considered a write off in every sense. I'd say dry build her. If you have all the parts, build her. If you haven't, part sell her.
Quote from: "EPO"Update: I've been sorting out the garage and trying to do some sort of inventory. Here's what I have so far.
The engine number has the flat plate so I assume it is a 93 model. However, the engine number is DCC7478 but the frame number is *SMTTD430DKP007377* Does this mean the engine is a replacement I wonder? Lots of the cover bolts have been replaced with hex heads in a variety of colours so its been opened up in the past. No records at all.
The calipers look rough. I took one apart for a look and all the rubber seals are perished, the pad pins are corroded and the bleed nipples rounded. On the plus side the pistons look clean and there was still some cleanish fluid in the bodies.
The carbs are better than expected despite being dirty. I gave them a quick spray with carb cleaner and worked them over with a stiff brush. I reckon they'll be good.
Exhaust is all there but the clamps are well corroded. Are the headers stainless as they look very solid? The silencers look okay.
The coils are labelled PVL which I believe is good news!
The engine is well corroded at the front. The exhaust studs are missing completely. In places its a mass of furry white yuck. I scraped a bit away and it looked shiny underneath but pitted. The engine side covers are odd colours - one red and one blue?
There are several big boxes of parts, some of which are bagged up and labelled. The loom is there.
I couldn't find chain. sprockets, swinging arm, rear mudguard, front mudguard, headlamps, iginition block, radiator. There are some other boxes hidden away though.
My big question has got to be is it viable to rebuild this machine or should I sell the parts? My budget is about £1000.
You can get new seals for the calipers from Triumph Online:
http://www.triumph-online.co.uk/caliper ... 6889-p.asp (http://www.triumph-online.co.uk/caliper-shaft-bolt-boot-6889-p.asp)
http://www.triumph-online.co.uk/triumph ... 6890-p.asp (http://www.triumph-online.co.uk/triumph-brake-caliper-shaft-slider-boot-6890-p.asp)
You can get Stainless Steel pad pins, etc. from there.
As Mustang said, the VIN number and engine numbers do not match on the Hinckley's. Your number is 9 digits away from mine, so it is the original engine that has the flat plate on top.
But it sounds like these are the least of your worries :(
Engine covers come up from time to time on eBay fairly cheaply. Studs for the exhausts can be fitted. There is nothing you have mentioned that is terminal. It's just time and money. If you want to do it quickly, it's going to cost, if you want to do it cheaply, you are best biding your time and waiting for parts to come along that are the right price (whatever that may be). I would buy a cheap bike to get you on the road and treat this one as a long term project to keep you away from the misses in the evening and at weekends.
And yes, the headers are stainless steel. Why they didn't carry this through to the exhausts, I don't know.
Quote from: "BruKen"Mustang you overtly rational and practical git. It's Valentines tomorrow. Just reminding yer cos I see misery on the horizons :D
took care of that yesterday with
DiamondsMrs. Mustang likes them better than Tiggers :shock:
Quote from: "EPO"I'm thankful for the rational response. I'm looking at it through rose tinted glasses I think. I like the bike but the income from selling the parts could fund a much better bike.
I'm going to do some more searching next weekend. If I cannot track down the remaining bits, I'll ebay what I've got I reckon.
List what you want on here first, we may have what you need.
If you do break it, list the parts up on here first, i`m still after a few bits for my rebuild. :D
Quote from: "Mustang"Quote from: "BruKen"Mustang you overtly rational and practical git. It's Valentines tomorrow. Just reminding yer cos I see misery on the horizons :D
took care of that yesterday with Diamonds
Mrs. Mustang likes them better than Tiggers :shock:
Oh you big softy :P :P well done :)
Quote from: "rf9rider"Quote from: "EPO"I'm thankful for the rational response. I'm looking at it through rose tinted glasses I think. I like the bike but the income from selling the parts could fund a much better bike.
I'm going to do some more searching next weekend. If I cannot track down the remaining bits, I'll ebay what I've got I reckon.
List what you want on here first, we may have what you need.
If you do break it, list the parts up on here first, i`m still after a few bits for my rebuild. :D
Second that :)
Quote from: "BruKen"Well Mustangs knowledge is second to none and his input is a major reason behind the technical success of the site. I seem to recall he was less than complimentary when I started YAPI and she scrubbed up well. A project bike is always more about soul and heart than practicality. What is practicality? Your bike as it stands is considered a write off in every sense. I'd say dry build her. If you have all the parts, build her. If you haven't, part sell her.
+1
And here is the best photo I could take of the engine cover that appears on the early Hinckley engines:
(http://www.axia.org.uk/downloads/Photos/Tiger/Misc/Engine-Cover-0287.jpg)