My Girly isn't running well. It started last Sunday, I'd been for a ride with no detected issues. Parked up for a cup of tea and 20 minutes later, when I tried to start her... difficult to start, hesitating or even stalling as soon as I tried to open the throttle, slight misfiring, still on the stand in neutral, more popping on closing the throttle than I'd expect. I managed to start and keep it running and rode home about 20 miles. I found that as soon as I could get over the initial throttle opening, under a slight load, it ran just fine - full power for overtakes etc. On the road, shutting the throttle felt like the engine had died, opening it again was somewhat abrupt, all or nothing. When I pulled into my drive, it idled fine, no hesitation on the throttle and seemed to be running fine again. A quick two mile ride and it was displaying the hestitation, stalling popping again. Into the garage it went I and locked the door.
This afternoon, I did a TPS reset with TuneECU, started it up just fine from cold and I let it idle without touching the throttle until the fan came on. Switched off, and restarted with a bit of hesitation - I had to give it a bit of throttle - and then displayed the same symptoms as last Sunday. Not good.
Oh, and when in neutral, if I give it some throttle and let go, the revs drop to about 1700, then take a couple of seconds to fall back to 1200-1300 RPM.
No error codes logged. Where's the clever money for things to look at/replace first?
Yours, slightly worried... :?
Questions first
1) More details about the bike please year mileage etc
2) Bike been laid up for a while until last Sunday?
3) And I know it sounds condescending but anything else you aint told us about, like, last week you stripped the alarm out or fitted 3Kw Running lights.
Seriously Only joking but its part of the fault finding process, and being an IT Engineer i always try and get at what someone may have forgotten to tell me, you never know.
My gut reaction would be to check out the IACV stepper motor though not everything points to that but its a start and it wont cost anything to whip the tank off and have a look see, when mine went I got a lot of the symptoms you have but Crank sensor or TPS itself could also do that as could the ECM module or wiring or, or ,or
Ohh, and dont be worried, if all else fails set fire to the f..... :lol:
Phew, early 2003, 45K miles, not been laid up, used most week-ends for a tank-full or more.
Only thing done recently was trying to suss out why the Scottoiler had stopped oiling. I pulled the vacuum pipe off the top, tested for suck (it worked another reservoir I had on the shelf) and replaced pipe. Pipe is well pushed in again and sounds like it's lifting the reservoir valve. Certainly it now delivers oil.
The bike does burn some oil if used hard (don't they all?)
Quote from: "ChazzyB"Phew, early 2003, 45K miles, not been laid up, used most week-ends for a tank-full or more.
Only thing done recently was trying to suss out why the Scottoiler had stopped oiling. I pulled the vacuum pipe off the top, tested for suck (it worked another reservoir I had on the shelf) and replaced pipe. Pipe is well pushed in again and sounds like it's lifting the reservoir valve. Certainly it now delivers oil.
The bike does burn some oil if used hard (don't they all?)
Ahaa, here we go, Scottoiler, check where the vacuum take off is on the IACV piping, its caused problems in the past on a few, and check its not fouling the accelarator linkage
I'm 99% certain this is an air-related issue. Like Tim says, sounds like the IACV is playing up. You can test it with Tune ECU with the ign on and engine off, listen carefully and you'll hear it cycling. If it isn't a smooth run from end to end during the test it's sticking (fairly obvious that...) around £70 to replace.
Since you've been at the Scottoiler vacuum connection, I'd have a really good look at the IACV hose(es) just to make absolutely sure they aren't leaking. A small split between the corrugations would be a beggar to find and would also give the sort of intermittent problem you have. As would a leak where they've been cut into to fit the Scottoiler T piece.
Oops, just beat me to it Tim!
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"I'm 99% certain this is an air-related issue. Like Tim says, sounds like the IACV is playing up. You can test it with Tune ECU with the ign on and engine off, listen carefully and you'll hear it cycling. If it isn't a smooth run from end to end during the test it's sticking (fairly obvious that...) around £70 to replace.
Since you've been at the Scottoiler vacuum connection, I'd have a really good look at the IACV hose(es) just to make absolutely sure they aren't leaking. A small split between the corrugations would be a beggar to find and would also give the sort of intermittent problem you have. As would a leak where they've been cut into to fit the Scottoiler T piece.
Oops, just beat me to it Tim!
Im fast me, to your credit BB think It was one of your posts about the scott oiler that I was recalling
The Scotty pipe was in at the IACV end, albeit not as far as I'd have liked.
I'd wonder about the IACV stepper, but wouldn't it have problems during the start-up and warm-up phases? Starting from cold this evening, it started on the button and fast idled normally during warm-up and gradually reduced until up to temp.
Is it OK to reconnect the battery and use TuneECU the check the stepper with the tank off?
The warming up will mask a tickover problem as the ECU enrichens the mix and raises the tickover depending on engine temp. Having said that, if it re-starts ok once warm, meaning the problem is intermittent, prob still points to an air leak. The tickover being high then dropping to normal is classic. Have a really good look at the Scottoiler connection.
And to answer your question, yes, you can re-connect the battery with the tank off to check the IACV. If you put the tank on a B&D workmate and snip through the tie-wrap holding the fuel pump loom to the injector rail, you can hook up the fuel and run the engine too. Then waggle the hoses to see if you can make it play up.
Thanks chaps. I've checked the stepper motor action with TuneECU and seen it calibrate then cycle in and out severl times. I'll whip the entire assembly off tomorrow evening and check it plus the hoses for damage. Will seem weird if it is the Scotty. I must have started and used the bike from cold and hot about half a dozen times between investigating the poor chain lube delivery and being struck down. Hey ho!
Be careful cycling the IACV off the bike. Mine shot parts all over the garage and I ended up having to replace it.
I still think you've deffo got an intermittent air leak somewhere though judging by the reluctance to drop straight back to idle revs when you blip it.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Be careful cycling the IACV off the bike. Mine shot parts all over the garage and I ended up having to replace it.
+1 Me Too :oops:
Eek, I didn't intend to activate the IACV while it's off the throttle bodies, just clean it and look at the hoses closely. I picked up a couple of throttle body gaskets (always good to have spare gaskets) today at lunch time. I'm also toying with the idea of forking out the required £40 and replacing the TPS while I'm in there, regardless. The fount of all knowledge at my local dealer said his money would be on the TPS. He also rides a Girly...
Quote from: "ChazzyB"Eek, I didn't intend to activate the IACV while it's off the throttle bodies, just clean it and look at the hoses closely. I picked up a couple of throttle body gaskets (always good to have spare gaskets) today at lunch time. I'm also toying with the idea of forking out the required £40 and replacing the TPS while I'm in there, regardless. The fount of all knowledge at my local dealer said his money would be on the TPS. He also rides a Girly...
If he does turn out to be the Font of all Knowledge with Girlies, cherish him, they are few and far between
Quote from: "Timbox2"Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Be careful cycling the IACV off the bike. Mine shot parts all over the garage and I ended up having to replace it.
+1 Me Too :oops:
:ImaPoser
An update: throttle bodies have now been off twice, latterly to fit a new TPS (and reset via TuneECU). Sweet FA difference. Cold start, all AOK: fast idle, decreasing in steps until idling ~1250 rpm; didn't touch throttle. Switched off after fan cut in. Wait a couple of mins and restart. Yuk, same problem. Stalling off idle, misfiring, hanging around 1500 rpm for a second after blipping the throttle (assuming it hadn't stalled).
I've just been out again after an hour, hooked up my laptop and TuneECU again. Started bike and watched the O2 sensor voltage. Initially it showed 0.45V and as the bike warmed up, it dropped steadily until it got as low as 0.025V, where it hovered. This was at idle. Running the engine at higher engine speeds (~3.5-4K rpm briefly) would see the voltage rise slightly, but not a lot.
What's expected usually from the O2 sensor? A bit of net trawling suggests typical O2 sensor output cycling between 0.8V and 0.2V, but I guess this depends on the sensor and the ECU? Oh, and when I changed the plugs last weekend, I thought they looked a bit on the weak side.
Aaargh!
Just answered your post over on chat, but yeah looks like you may have a wonkey sensor.
I too have .465v cold, but my voltage rises as the engine warms to about .93 when warmed up.
;-) And I just replied to you over there too!
Suspecting the O2 sensor, I made up a sensor eliminator, but it's made zero difference to the poor running. But as a replacement, seems to function OK, in that there was no DTC for sensor heater fail and sensor voltage reported by TuneECU sat at a constant 4.35v. That was using a 1 meg ohm resistor (all I could get) rather than 1.2m ohm, which is what a pal's pukka plug measures.
Quote from: "ChazzyB";-) And I just replied to you over there too!
Suspecting the O2 sensor, I made up a sensor eliminator, but it's made zero difference to the poor running. But as a replacement, seems to function OK, in that there was no DTC for sensor heater fail and sensor voltage reported by TuneECU sat at a constant 4.35v. That was using a 1 meg ohm resistor (all I could get) rather than 1.2m ohm, which is what a pal's pukka plug measures.
Im confused now as Ive just done a bit of reading and that led me to believe that the sensor itself generates the volts depending on mixture, so if you put a bypass in where is the voltage coming from? The heater circuit I presume.
But anyway, maybe the sensors fine and the voltage is low as its detecting a very weak mixture, so what do the plugs say?
Quote from: "Timbox2"But anyway, maybe the sensors fine and the voltage is low as its detecting a very weak mixture, so what do the plugs say?
Plugs say weak. I wonder if I've got a fuel rail pressure problem.
Quote from: "ChazzyB"Quote from: "Timbox2"But anyway, maybe the sensors fine and the voltage is low as its detecting a very weak mixture, so what do the plugs say?
Plugs say weak. I wonder if I've got a fuel rail pressure problem.
Didnt you say it was OK on full throttle? Have you tried reloading a map?
In view of chairheads recent discovery might even be worth unplugging the ECU connectors and having a looksee.
Quote from: "ChazzyB"What's expected usually from the O2 sensor? A bit of net trawling suggests typical O2 sensor output cycling between 0.8V and 0.2V, but I guess this depends on the sensor and the ECU? Oh, and when I changed the plugs last weekend, I thought they looked a bit on the weak side.
Aaargh!
The wid eband O2 sensor in the Tiger only reads around 0.1v for weak, 0.45v for normal and 0.9v for rich. Any voltage in between is not related to how rich or lean, it's not that clever.
So to have a permanently lean reading you either have a duff sensor, or lean mix. A duff sensor would not immediately affect the running, but would take the trims out of range. Since you've reset the trims and the fault hasn't gone away, you need to look elsewhere.
Regarding the bypass resistor, the resistor is the same value as the internal resistance of the O2 sensor and is there only to fool the ECU into thinking the O2 sensor is connected otherwise it would log a fault and turn on the MIL light. The bypass resistor adds nothing to the fueling function, that's the whole point of disconnecting the sensor.
If it's rough with the sensor disconnected (with or without the bypass resistor) something else is wrong. A blocked injector maybe, or - as you say - fuel rail pressure down. Either need specialist kit to check / rectify. Or an air leak somewhere....
Have you read your trouble codes? Is there anything relating to the injectors?
Quote from: "Timbox2"Didnt you say it was OK on full throttle? Have you tried reloading a map?
I'd thought about that and have a note on my desk to remind me to try tomorrow.
Quote from: "Timbox2"In view of chairheads recent discovery might even be worth unplugging the ECU connectors and having a looksee.
Remind me of Chairheads problem (apart from having a chair :wink: ) ???
Quote from: "ChazzyB"Didnt you say it was OK on full throttle? Have you tried reloading a map?
I'd thought about that and have a note on my desk to remind me to try tomorrow.
Make sure the battery is fully charged. Remapping with a weak battery will look as though it's mapped ok, but the trims will be corrupt and it will run like crap. I know this because that is what the dealer did to me on one occasion. The reason for this is the signal to the ECU (which normally has an internal 5v power line) to allow the remap involves taking the Vff pin on the memory storage up 12.5v. If the battery is not up to it, it can't sustain the 12.5v for the whole mapping period.
Quote from: "ChazzyB"Quote from: "Timbox2"Didnt you say it was OK on full throttle? Have you tried reloading a map?
I'd thought about that and have a note on my desk to remind me to try tomorrow.
Quote from: "Timbox2"In view of chairheads recent discovery might even be worth unplugging the ECU connectors and having a looksee.
Remind me of Chairheads problem (apart from having a chair :wink: ) ???
Its the thread below this one (Tiger comes home), he found a nasty surprise in one of the ECU plugs. His Tiger wasnt running at all mind.
Quote from: "Timbox2"Its the thread below this one (Tiger comes home), he found a nasty surprise in one of the ECU plugs. His Tiger wasnt running at all mind.
Eeeugh! My ECU connectors are nice and clean inside - I checked.
Please be sure to double back to my post on battery. It was overtaken while I was writing it... :lol:
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Please be sure to double back to my post on battery. It was overtaken while I was writing it... :lol:
Funny you mention that BB, today when I was loading a new map a couple of times it "Timed Out", wouldnt load. I noticed it reported the Batt voltage at 12.6v. I ran the engine for a few minutes and got the voltage up to 13 odd, and then it went straight in :D
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Please be sure to double back to my post on battery. It was overtaken while I was writing it... :lol:
Noted, will stick my meter on it before starting. Given the amount of starting and running at idle that's been going on, it could be weak. Could a weak battery that also cause a TPS reset to not 'take'? My guess is yes?
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Please be sure to double back to my post on battery. It was overtaken while I was writing it... :lol:
Worryingly, battery at 13V (as reported by TuneECU, slightly higher on meter), reading current map has timed out twice now at 34%, TuneECU then appears to reconnect to the ECU (flashing red at bottom right, then amber, green). I have been having TuneECU loose connection quite frequently. Ideas? (Apart from "Burn it, it's a witch")
Quote from: "ChazzyB"Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Please be sure to double back to my post on battery. It was overtaken while I was writing it... :lol:
Worryingly, battery at 13V (as reported by TuneECU, slightly higher on meter), reading current map has timed out twice now at 34%, TuneECU then appears to reconnect to the ECU (flashing red at bottom right, then amber, green). I have been having TuneECU loose connection quite frequently. Ideas? (Apart from "Burn it, it's a witch")
Have you took the fuses out for the headlights? It drains the voltage pretty quick I have found if they are on.
Quote from: "Timbox2"Quote from: "ChazzyB"Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Please be sure to double back to my post on battery. It was overtaken while I was writing it... :lol:
Worryingly, battery at 13V (as reported by TuneECU, slightly higher on meter), reading current map has timed out twice now at 34%, TuneECU then appears to reconnect to the ECU (flashing red at bottom right, then amber, green). I have been having TuneECU loose connection quite frequently. Ideas? (Apart from "Burn it, it's a witch")
Have you took the fuses out for the headlights? It drains the voltage pretty quick I have found if they are on.
I find the headlight switch is quite effective. ;-)
I'm still having problems reading the tune from the ECU without it timing out at some point. I'm not going to try loading a tune until I can reliably read one out of it. I'd be interested to know what settings other people's USB COM port have got.
I'm also concerned that TuneECU is now reporting my ECU serial number as all FFFF... It didn't use to do that!
Did you raise the baud rate as advised in the Tune ECU sticky? I did and I too have some reading problems. I'll try dropping it again and see if that's the problem. I'll get my setrtings written down at the same time.
I did and tried other things too - still time getting timeouts. I may have been fiddled with too many things at once to be scientific. I'll reset the port to defaults and wind the baud rate up to 115200 and see what happens.
What do you make of my ECU serial showing all FFFF's? Looks like some memory has been set to all high values.
Quote from: "Timbox2"Have you took the fuses out for the headlights? It drains the voltage pretty quick I have found if they are on.
Quote from: "ChazzyB"I find the headlight switch is quite effective. ;-)
Ahh yes, I dont have one of those, mores the pity.
Quote from: "ChazzyB"I did and tried other things too - still time getting timeouts. I may have been fiddled with too many things at once to be scientific. I'll reset the port to defaults and wind the baud rate up to 115200 and see what happens.
What do you make of my ECU serial showing all FFFF's? Looks like some memory has been set to all high values.
I think your ECU it totally corrupted and needs a full tune blowing in. I've contacted Tom, and Alain from TuneECU about the connectivity issues, they're nothing to do with your bike, it's something in the latest software as the older verions didn't do it. unfortunately I didn't keep any older versions when I upgraded.
If it's any help, I blew in the new Triumph tune before I went to the Harley show yesterday and although TuneECU kept dropping out when reading earlier, writing was fine and it went in first try. Your decision though. you can download the latest Triumph Tune (date Nov 10) from TuneECU.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Quote from: "ChazzyB"I did and tried other things too - still time getting timeouts. I may have been fiddled with too many things at once to be scientific. I'll reset the port to defaults and wind the baud rate up to 115200 and see what happens.
What do you make of my ECU serial showing all FFFF's? Looks like some memory has been set to all high values.
I think your ECU it totally corrupted and needs a full tune blowing in. I've contacted Tom, and Alain from TuneECU about the connectivity issues, they're nothing to do with your bike, it's something in the latest software as the older verions didn't do it. unfortunately I didn't keep any older versions when I upgraded.
If it's any help, I blew in the new Triumph tune before I went to the Harley show yesterday and although TuneECU kept dropping out when reading earlier, writing was fine and it went in first try. Your decision though. you can download the latest Triumph Tune (date Nov 10) from TuneECU.
Ive kept a couple of the earlier versions, 1.6.99b and 1.7.8c if anybody wants em.
I've got a couple of earlier versions archived too. I'll unzip one and give it a try. I certainly read a tune from an ECU or two sometime mid-last year, though it may have been from the Speed Triple I also had at the time.
I had the battery on charge all night. This morning, TuneECU reported 13.0V, and correctly reported the serial number and VIN! These had been all FFFF and 'VIN missing' for several days. I read the tune out of it three or four times in a row.
I put the battery back on charge and went away for an hour. When I came back, I was back to square one - serial number all FFFF, missing VIN and unable to retrieve a tune or history without timing out. Grrrr.
... a fuel injector O-ring completely missing. Allegedly
I gave up and prostrated my wallet in front of the local dealer. They found it - eventually - after a false claim of success yesterday.
The injectors hadn't been out during my three years of ownership. Hmmm.
So is it running alright now Chas?
And how right is right?? I'm always looking for cures for lumpy bottom end. A missing or leaky fuel injector "o" ring is not one I've come across before, but would let enough air in to upset the running. And it's a fairly easy fix ?I think (where's the Haynes.... :roll: )
Edit: :BangHead
I've just remembered, years ago I had an old Volvo 740 estate that developed a slight but regular misfire at tickover which dissapeared when the revs picked up. I changed all the obvious electrical stuff with no avail and eventually took it to an eletrical diagnostic expert. He found a slight air leak on one cyclinder inlet manifold gasket. Cheap fix. Symptoms are similar here, I just didn't make the connection. As I said: :BangHead
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"So is it running alright now Chas?
And how right is right?? I'm always looking for cures for lumpy bottom end. A missing or leaky fuel injector "o" ring is not one I've come across before, but would let enough air in to upset the running. And it's a fairly easy fix ?I think (where's the Haynes.... :roll: )
Edit: :BangHead
Seems to be running fine, now. Prolly better at low RPM/slight throttle opening than before. First diagnosis was throttle bodies out of sync and "we've synced them now". "Eh?" said I. "How do they go out of sync between parking up, having a cuppa and trying to go home?" Anyway, their test ride put paid to that idea. Oh well, live and learn. Four hours labour and one O-ring was the damage. Less than I'd steeled myself for. I've bought an Aprilia Pegaso Strada as a backup bike. Blimey, it feels light and agile compared to the Tiger, but the Tiger certainly has the plusher ride.
Their first testing showed running very, very lean. Like 0.2% CO instead of 2%!!! That ties up with TuneECU showing Lambda voltage almost getting to 0V as it warmed up, possibly?
I've just posted on Sas's thread, the narrow band O2 sensor only outputs 3 voltages depending on what's happening:
0.1 v = lean
0.45 v = normal
0.9v = rich
Shall have to read up on injector leaks,or just replace the O rings next time I'm in there....
Another injector O-ring must have vanished, because I stopped for fuel this morning (bike having been running sweetly) and on restarting, "The Problem" was back again.
These bikes are just sooooo frustrating :BangHead
When you start the bike and it runs like poo, try switching off at the key and on again and start, see if that will make a difference, sounds daft but has worked before. sounds like IACV to me, sticking up, or barometric pressure pipe gone or not connected. How is the earth from the loom to frame(the smaller wire not the big battery one)
Quote from: "metalguru"When you start the bike and it runs like poo, try switching off at the key and on again and start, see if that will make a difference, sounds daft but has worked before. sounds like IACV to me, sticking up, or barometric pressure pipe gone or not connected. How is the earth from the loom to frame(the smaller wire not the big battery one)
No, doesn't sound daft, as the problem has generally manifested itself when starting the bike, having been running just fine to the point it was switched off, often just a few minutes before.
The bike's coming home from the dealer again this evening. They acknowledge it isn't running right, though at the moment, it's 'only' stumbling a bit coming off idle and not ticking over at the right speed (low). Reading between the lines, they don't want to start replacing bits and not find the problem. Which I can understand, but it doesn't help me get a proper running bike. I'm going to bite the bullet and replace the stepper motor, and double check ALL the pipework again, including I guess, the barometric pipe from the ECU back to the air box. I understand I don't want to blow down it, towards the ECU, though. When I've had TuneECU hooked up, reported barometric pressure has always looked reasonable, just slightly lower than what the barometer says.
It's sh*t like this that puts me right off a bike/brand. I got back into modern bikes as a perceived antidote to the old clunkers I was into. In fact, properly maintained, the old clunkers have a lot going for them - like no fuel injection.
Do you start the bike instantly you turn the ignition on or do you let it settle for a second or two, I know my Ducati has to "cycle" its ECU before you hit the button, and my mates 1200GS whent through a rough patch on the way back from Scotland a couple of years back and we put that down to starting too quick because after another stop, it restarted and was fine again. Just a thought
If it'll tick over, even if it's lumpy, do the 12 minute tune (that often takes 20 minutes :D ) Can't do any harm and will sort out any bad trims. You need to start with a cold engine so leave it overnight. Start the motor but DO NOT touch the throttle. Let it idle until the fan cuts in. Leave it for another 12 minutes STILL DON'T touch the throttle. Turn her off, let the ECU cycle down (about 3 secs) and you're done. Go for a ride.
Quote from: "NKL"Do you start the bike instantly you turn the ignition on
No, usually wait a few seconds, then hit the button. Just got the bike back from the dealer and it ran as well as it ever had done. Into my drive, switch off. Open garage door and start the bike again. I instantly knew it wasn't right. Uneven tickover and hesitating off idle. After a minute I switched off. Waited 20 seconds and started it again - even worse now - misfiring slightly on an even throttle at about 2K.
Anyway, the dealer didn't have an IACV stepper motor in stock, and after rummaging around a while, handed me a grubby parts bag containing a stepper off another bike and said to try it! I shall be busy in the garage tomorrow morning. In the meantime, there's some beers with my name on them.
Chazzy, is the ECU relay working?
When you turn off, there should be a pause of about 2-3 secs then you should hear the ping of a relay letting go. Just a little click, it's one of the relays next to the ECU. If it's not working the ECU can't store the trims before it shuts down, effectively wiping it every time you switch off. If it's that it's a cheap fix, (either the relay itself or asscociated wiring) way cheaper than an IACV!! And it only takes 3 secs to check... :wink:
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Chazzy, is the ECU relay working?
I shall check in the morning! Right now, I'm getting mellow... :wink:
Another daft idea...Has the IACV got a clean bore to glide up and down on as it will move when first starting? I found a bit of lube (teflon spray) after cleaning works wonders.
Quote from: "metalguru"Has the IACV got a clean bore to glide up and down on as it will move when first starting? I found a bit of lube (teflon spray) after cleaning works wonders.
I'll go and get some first thing. Any brands to look for? My local motor factor is pretty good (it's not Halfrauds) and the guys who run it both have bikes, and when I went past this morning, they'd both ridden to work - one of them on his BSA Starfire.
You can cycle the IACV to check whether it's sticking using tuneECU.
I use TF2 by locktite it is expensive in the shops but i found some on Amazon for 60p a tin so bought ten! Don't use WD40 it will stick even more. with my experiences WD 40 should only be used on the hinge of the dustbin before depositing said can.
Lot to be said about my thoughts of a carb conversion sadly progress is slow but will get there in the end. Nothing wrong with the type just the cheap french EFI, Having said that my 885 had powdercoat frame and 955 is silver paint, cutting corners again.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"You can cycle the IACV to check whether it's sticking using tuneECU.
I did that early on in the episode - looked fine, to my inexperienced eyes. It went up and down a few times, then appeared to park itself near the top (but not completely closed) at the end of its exercise.
Quote from: "metalguru"Having said that my 885 had powdercoat frame and 955 is silver paint, cutting corners again.
My wire-wheel 955 is also powdercoated black.
My wire-wheel 955 is also powdercoated black.[/quote]
Yes later mag wheel ones are painted, DOH.
Have a look at the warm up map on tuneECU and cut down the values by at least half from 40 up and download as my short intensive learning curve has found the ecu when first starting cycles through this map till it works out how warm it is and trims accordingly, might narrow problem down to temp or map. Just had a sudden :idea: what alarm are you running, is it connected cleanly, try service mode if it has one and cycle the start stop where you have had the problems.
Quote from: "metalguru":idea: what alarm are you running
Alarm; what's that? There was one on a Speed Triple I bought. I soon removed it.
Don't forget to check the ECU relay first, it's only a 3 second job and you might be lucky!
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Don't forget to check the ECU relay first, it's only a 3 second job and you might be lucky!
This is the main power relay - 71 in the factory wiring diagram?
There's an audible click from one of the underseat relays about 3 seconds after power off. Dunno which one - there are two identical jobs next to each other.
If it does turn out to be the stepper motor I have been looking around and a renault megan looks similar but have not compared yet. They are only £20 new! French made efi so could be similar cos stealer is bound to be £80. Just a thought there is another of your favourite o rings between the stepper motor and the body if that has gone on holiday or somehow escaped or even worn out it could give problems.
Quote from: "ChazzyB"There's an audible click from one of the underseat relays about 3 seconds after power off. Dunno which one - there are two identical jobs next to each other.
That's the one.
I fitted a different IACV stepper yesterday morning. Initial results seemed good (several start and stop cycles standing on the drive and no probs). Went out to get some petrol and guess what, on restarting, the problem's back again. I rode home with it in a dreadful state and it died as I turned into my drive. I can't remember if I switched off at that point or just clutch-in and restarted. Whichever, I restarted and it was fluffing off tickover. Anyway, after a few seconds idling, it seemed greatly improved, so I went off for a prolonged lanes ride (30 miles, 45 minutes). A couple of times, I stoppped, checked how it was responding coming off idle (fine), let it idle for a few seconds more and then switched off, waited 30 seconds and restarted. Both times, it started on the button, but immediately was fluffing at small throttle openings off idle, almost dying unless I gave it a handfull. I found that if I let it idle for 10-20 seconds, it would gradually improve and become usable. This has been repeatable, pretty much every time this afternoon, too. Once the bike's settled into a usable state, it seems to be fine, barring the usual, somewhat rough, gentle on-off throttle transitions at 2.5-3K RPM.
What's going on????
Sounds at first like a big air leak but presuming all the IACV pipes have been checked for leaks, I would be inclined to reinput a tune, BBs got a good one, as I have learnt on starting, these cycle through the warm-up map till they figure out how warm they are and settle down, usually high idle for a few seconds then settle down. Might be wise to check the air intake and engine temp sensors for correct voltage (can do on tuneECU). Or it is going through the startup but the map is not supplying enough fuel, again a reload. I am assuming the TPS was reset when replaced, Have a look at ECU settings on this site for voltage comparisons as just got mine right and it may help you.
Going back a while, you have reported good IACV connection and good excerise on the stepper motor, none more about the scotty. Is the diaphram in the scotty working and sealing ok? Best way to check is with a hand vacuum pump with a guage but if all else fails suck it and see. An air leak here would certainly confuse the ecu (not difficult). Or disconnect it and plug the pipe engine side and have a try.
The Scotty was checked early on. Neither putting a brand new Scotty reservoir on (I just happen to have one 'on the shelf') nor bunging a finger over the end of the pipe wearing my favourite nitrile gloves made any difference.
Current thinking in one quarter is that it could be a ECU fault; not storing trim data at power off. This vaguely ties up with my discovery that if left to idle for a minute or so after a restart, the problem settles and goes away. However, if you grab the throttle immediately after the restart and try to stop it fluffing and choking by giving it *positive* throttle input, it doesn't go away; oh no.
I ran the bike this evening after work. Five minutes or so from cold, without touching the throttle. On the face of it, a perfect start and warm up. I then switched off, waited about 30 seconds and restarted (on the button, no throttle). After another 30 seconds, I tried a throttle blip - a slight fluff, let it idle for another 10 seconds or so and tried again; it kept on improving over the next 30 seconds or so until I reckoned it was as good as ever. After letting it idle for another period, I switched off. After 30 seconds or so, I turned the ignition on again (no lights, didn't start it) and measured the voltage across the battery terminals - 12.3V. The battery's a Yuasa of indeterminate age. It was in the bike when I bought it three years ago. Given that a faulty main power relay can prevent long term trim data being stored on power down and that 12.6V at the battery is the minimum for a successful tune flash, I'm wondering whether a weak battery may be behind my problems?
Hope the gloves are nice pink ones..lol.
best to check charging voltage aswell if kept on a battery tender.
Quote from: "ChazzyB"After 30 seconds or so, I turned the ignition on again (no lights, didn't start it) and measured the voltage across the battery terminals - 12.3V. The battery's a Yuasa of indeterminate age.
That's really low - I'd expect far more than that even with the lights on.
I find modern batteries don't last long at all - I'm on my 3rd with my 2004 (including the original) - the second one barely lasted 2 years.
As you will know, weak batteries cause all sorts of problems. My current one is a Westco from Tayna which seems pretty good so far.
An ECU bought from a breaker on eBay, £66 delivered next day, has fixed it. Got a VIN and serial number in the ECU again to boot. Not my VIN, but it's a VIN. It even came preloaded with the right tune.
So, what else has been done to get to this point? New TPS (throttle bodies off twice), 4 hours dealer "diagnosis" (Ha bloody ha)! New battery, swapped idle steppers (twice), replaced oxygen sensor. Much gnashing of teeth and wailing. I have learned a lot though. :roll: Thanks all.
Glad to hear it.
I know this would be tempting fate but I'd be tempted to try the old ECU again now everything's working just to confirm that's where the problem is. Although the lack of VIN etc is probably evidence enough.....
Quote from: "iansoady"Glad to hear it.
I know this would be tempting fate but I'd be tempted to try the old ECU again now everything's working just to confirm that's where the problem is. Although the lack of VIN etc is probably evidence enough.....
Nah, I've spent too much time on this problem already. It wasn't just the missing VIN, it was the serial number that had morphed into "FFFFFFFFFFFFF" as well. I keep going out to the garage and starting it as I can't really believe it's sorted. Everything I've tried so far, I've thought "This is it, sorted", but it hasn't been so.
Chazzy, take the baseplate off your old ECU, my money's on water ingress - seems to be the main cause of ECU failure, which is why I blanked off all the holes in my undertray.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Chazzy, take the baseplate off your old ECU, my money's on water ingress - seems to be the main cause of ECU failure, which is why I blanked off all the holes in my undertray.
I'll have a look inside shortly. I took the precaution of cleaning the undertray and covering all the holes with good, sticky duct tape, black of course. The main culprit appears to be the hole under the 'hook' which locates the back edge of the ECU.
Why, oh why, do Triumph design in failure in this way??? :roll: