I had to replace the right front brake line. I have a vacuum assist pump to help. Basically all I need to do is keep the vacuum up and the new brake fluid coming until all the air is out and the lever has a good firm squeeze right?
I've never relied on my mighty vac to make brake bleeding happen. I prefer the old way of pump it up and hold, loosen bleeder screw and tighten. Repeat as required.
Quote from: "JetdocX"I've never relied on my mighty vac to make brake bleeding happen. I prefer the old way of pump it up and hold, loosen bleeder screw and tighten. Repeat as required.
do you also like "fingernails on a blackboard"
Quote from: "JetdocX"I've never relied on my mighty vac to make brake bleeding happen. I prefer the old way of pump it up and hold, loosen bleeder screw and tighten. Repeat as required.
That's the way I've always done it. Are we lame old fogeys, Mustang?
Quote from: "JetdocX"I've never relied on my mighty vac to make brake bleeding happen. I prefer the old way of pump it up and hold, loosen bleeder screw and tighten. Repeat as required.
same way i bleed me brkes. a lot easier. i found if ya bleed the master cylinder first, makes things a lot quicker ;)
I have never bled brakes on the Tiger so don't know if this is a problem. But on some other models, the air bubbles in the front lines will rise faster than you can force the fluid down to the calipers. The trick they use is to reverse bleed. You need a big syringe or similar device to force the fluid in at the calipers and then an eye dropper or turkey baster to remove it from the master as it accumulates. FWIW
Quotei found if ya bleed the master cylinder first, makes things a lot quicker
How do you bleed the master cylinder?
QuoteBut on some other models, the air bubbles in the front lines will rise faster than you can force the fluid down to the calipers. The trick they use is to reverse bleed. You need a big syringe or similar device to force the fluid in at the calipers and then an eye dropper or turkey baster to remove it from the master as it accumulates. FWIW
This sounds a little tricky to do, where would one get a large capacity syringe?
Quote from: "nightrunner"I have never bled brakes on the Tiger so don't know if this is a problem. But on some other models, the air bubbles in the front lines will rise faster than you can force the fluid down to the calipers. The trick they use is to reverse bleed. You need a big syringe or similar device to force the fluid in at the calipers and then an eye dropper or turkey baster to remove it from the master as it accumulates. FWIW
I believe the reverse method is daveb's prefered method, also funnily enough it was the recommended way to bleed Magura Hydraulic brakes on Mountain Bikes.
Quote from: "Bob Tosi"Quotei found if ya bleed the master cylinder first, makes things a lot quicker
How do you bleed the master cylinder?
pump the lever a few times i usually go for 20. then hold the lever in and undo the banjo bolt that holds the brake lines too it. youll see lots of lil air bubbles cme out. do that till all ya air bubbles have gone. dont forget to put a rag underneath to catch brake fluid n change it when it every so often. then bleed the brakes startin with the caliper furthest away from the cylinder as normal.
Vacuum pump?! You lazy git. I suck pumping the lever with one hand and spanner twirling with the other. Brake fluid is an aquired taste. Sure gives you cotton mouth tho
:twisted:
I dont neccessairly advise this method, just stating how dumb I am. The vacuum pump was feeble and you can pump all you like, but you'll be there a month of Sundays and not see any benefit if the slaves were near dry.
Quote from: "BruKen"Vacuum pump?! You lazy git. I suck pumping the lever with one hand and spanner twirling with the other. Brake fluid is an aquired taste. Sure gives you cotton mouth tho
:twisted:
I dont neccessairly advise this method, just stating how dumb I am. The vacuum pump was feeble and you can pump all you like, but you'll be there a month of Sundays and not see any benefit if the slaves were near dry.
ya must not have read the bloody directions ............
dry calipers after rebuild ,both sides ,two new dry brake lines , and empty master , 1 bottle of brake fluid , 1 mighty vac and 10 minutes brakes full and bled easy peasy and I don't have to drink it :shock:
I got better things to do then spend all day fussing about with someone elses brakes
It's always easy in theory :roll: So why does it never work that way for me huh?! Just once I'd like to be able to apply easy theory to spanner twirling but the gods of Dumbass are always watchin. :x
so here was the culprit. A broken right front banjo fitting after a low speed tip over in mud and ice.
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/BobTosi/DSCN1194.jpg)
The solution, fittings and hose from the local hot rod shop, $50.
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/BobTosi/DSCN1195.jpg)
installation complete:
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/BobTosi/DSCN1196.jpg)
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/BobTosi/DSCN1197.jpg)
Ready to start the bleeding process:
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/BobTosi/DSCN1199.jpg)
What was left in the MC after the broken line, looks like crap doesnt it?
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/BobTosi/DSCN1198.jpg)
About 12 ounzes of fluid later and about an hour, I've got good brakes again in the front. The feel is good but I would like it to be firmer than it is. The Mighty Vac worked well along with the conventional method. I flushed the left side also, so now both sides have fresh fluid.
Well after a few miles I could stand the lever being spongey anymore. I bleed the master cylinder and that helped a little I guess. Then I bleed both calipers again and it is a little better but not what it was before I replaced the broken line.
The part I dont get is that the lever felt rock hard before. Even after the broken line and the field repair. Now I've got brakes but the lever feels spongey but works. Just not the hard lever I had before which allowed 1 finger braking in the dirt or on downhills.
Anyone got any ideas on how to proceed ?
start over you still got air in the brake lines , new lines hold a lot of brake fluid :shock:
so some more squeeze squeeeze twist, squeee squeeze twist, repeat as neccessary :roll:
wHUT THE mUSTANG SAID....
You got air in the lines. :wink:
QuotewHUT THE mUSTANG SAID....
You got air in the lines.
_________________
Yeah but whats it going to take to get it out! :BangHead
The old fashioned way :)
Squeeze, release the bleed screw, tighten the bleed screw and then release...
And don't let the reservoir get empty :)
I need a robotic hand :BangHead I've been working on this for awhile now. :BangHead
I talked to a motorcycle mechanic yesterday and he said I could take the calipers off and raise them up and try that. This would help get the air out of the caliper if it was there. He also suggested turning the whole system upside down to force the air out that way. :roll: :violent1
does this sound like :Topes :ImaPoser
You just have to be patient :(
Try alternating side to side. If you have got all the old crap out and have a clean container you can recycle the fluid as it comes out.
Two questions for you :)
How far can you pull the lever back?
Do you have the original rubber hoses?
And - so, I lied - does pumping the brake make it firmer?
Never tried this but:
Pull the lever as hard as you can and ty-wrap it to the grip. Walk away for the evening, drink beer, etc. In the morning, cut the ty-wrap and see how it feels. :wink:
Never tried it on the steamer, but on my truck I do a gravity bleed. It can take some time though. Just remove the cover on the reservoir, loosen the bleed nut, put a jar or bowl under it, and let gravity do the work. Just keep the reservoir topped up. I don't know if there is anything on the steamer that would prevent that from working though.
Another useful thing--BMW makes DOT4 brake fluid in two different colors. Buy a jar of each, and every time you flush the brakes, switch colors, that way you know you have pushed everything through.
Geof
Quote from: "abruzzi"Another useful thing--BMW makes DOT4 brake fluid in two different colors. Buy a jar of each, and every time you flush the brakes, switch colors, that way you know you have pushed everything through.
Geof
Now that's a good idea. How much do BMW charge for this though? :)
Quote from: "JetdocX"Never tried this but:
Pull the lever as hard as you can and ty-wrap it to the grip. Walk away for the evening, drink beer, etc. In the morning, cut the ty-wrap and see how it feels. :wink:
it works on some bikes and not on others :icon_scratch . as long as the master doesn't run out of fluid filling the new brake lines , if that happens you get air and the whole process starts over . which is what I suspect is happening to bob with the mighty vac .....................new lines are a bitch to refill and keep the air out
QuoteHow far can you pull the lever back?
All the way but it is spongey. I get about a 1/4 in of travel then the brakes start working.
QuoteDo you have the original rubber hoses?
No, 2 factory steel lines and 1 new aftermarket.
I use a Venhill twin line set up, separate braided hose runs all the way up to the master cyl banjo bolt from each caliper. You bleed each line pretty much independent of the other.
Think it has been mentioned already but I tend to fill bottom up using a large syringe. Use ty-wrap or similar to hold the lever in to just before the piston covers the reservoir hole to minimize the air in there. Then push the fluid in, if your not happy you can do a bit of push and pull to try and dislodge any trapped air. Syringe is the one I got with my fork oil level tool, just give it a good wash out after so you don't end up with fork oil in your break lines or vice-versa.
OH - and finally ptfe tape on the bleed nipple threads make sure you not leaking air into the system as fast as your beading it out.
Its a bit of a OTT process but seem to be reliable in its results.
Quote from: "akendall1966"I use a Venhill twin line set up, separate braided hose runs all the way up to the master cyl banjo bolt from each caliper. You bleed each line pretty much independent of the other.
Think it has been mentioned already but I tend to fill bottom up using a large syringe. Use ty-wrap or similar to hold the lever in to just before the piston covers the reservoir hole to minimize the air in there. Then push the fluid in, if your not happy you can do a bit of push and pull to try and dislodge any trapped air. Syringe is the one I got with my fork oil level tool, just give it a good wash out after so you don't end up with fork oil in your break lines or vice-versa.
OH - and finally ptfe tape on the bleed nipple threads make sure you not leaking air into the system as fast as your beading it out.
Its a bit of a OTT process but seem to be reliable in its results.
Sounds like it will work very well! the tape is also a good idea, i always tend to close nipple as much as workable, but i will try the tape! It does not get in the system anyway. The oil dissolve the tape after a wile
QuoteI use a Venhill twin line set up, separate braided hose runs all the way up to the master cyl banjo bolt from each caliper.
This could be my problem because my setup is a single line to a splitter then a separate line to each caliper. I will try and bleed the system again and bleed it at the splitter also.
Quote from: "dave NL"Sounds like it will work very well! the tape is also a good idea, i always tend to close nipple as much as workable, but i will try the tape! It does not get in the system anyway. The oil dissolve the tape after a wile
The ptfe tape only has last while you bleed, once the nipple is closed its done its job, you can put fresh piece on next time. Just be careful not to cover the hole below the thread or the cone so it still seal ok when you do it up.
Quote from: "CoolHandLuke"Quote from: "abruzzi"Another useful thing--BMW makes DOT4 brake fluid in two different colors. Buy a jar of each, and every time you flush the brakes, switch colors, that way you know you have pushed everything through.
Geof
Now that's a good idea. How much do BMW charge for this though? :)
http://www.beastpower.com/p/bmw/ate-typ ... B-BRAKE-FL (http://www.beastpower.com/p/bmw/ate-typ200/super/ATE-SB-BRAKE-FL)
$14.95 per liter.
Geof
Ta.
QuotePlease note that the blue dye (in the Super Blue Racing fluid) will permanently stain the brake fluid reservoir after extended use.
That doesn't sound good :(
as long as you have a metal cylinder shouldnt be a prob. only ones itll change the colour of are plastic ones and on steamers their hidden away :wink:
Quote from: "rybes"as long as you have a metal cylinder shouldnt be a prob. only ones itll change the colour of are plastic ones and on steamers their hidden away :wink:
Ahh, that's not so bad. What about the sight glass?
It doesn't damage anything, and it doesn't stain it opaque. If you run nothing but the blue for a long time, the plastic will acquire a light blue tint. I haven't noticed it on the sight glass. It really is more of an aesthetic issue for anal-retentive M5 owners.
Geof
Quote from: "abruzzi"It doesn't damage anything, and it doesn't stain it opaque. If you run nothing but the blue for a long time, the plastic will acquire a light blue tint. I haven't noticed it on the sight glass. It really is more of an aesthetic issue for anal-retentive M5 owners.
Geof
Sweet. All I need to know. I'll add that to my shopping list for the next fluid change :)