I am about to do my first chain/sprocket switch. I have two questions: First, what size is the nut on the front sprocket? Second, what is the best method for locking the front sprocket? My initial idea was to put the mc in top gear and lock the rear brake. That is not possible at the moment as the rear wheel is at the shop for a new tire. Any other methods out there that anyone cares to recommend? If I have to, I can wait until I get the tire back. I am waiting on delivery for the MotionPro chain rivet tool kit anyway.
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Jon
wait for the wheel ,the brake is the only thing that will hold for the torque you need ...................................
I am ready to remove the sprocket cover.
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/sprocketcover2.jpg)
The cover is loose; I can feel it move but it won't come off. I have removed 8 bolts-3 from the slave cylinder and 5 from the sprocket cover. I haven't removed the slave cylinder cover. That seems to be stuck. How do I get the SC cover off? Keep whacking it with my rubber hammer? Pry it off? Jedi mind trick? Your advice to gently remove isn't going to work.
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Jon
keep ya hammer out and gently knock it till it can move. dont hit it too hard ya just wanna loosen it. then get wigglin till it comes free. or..........if ya brave get a pair of stilsons or an adjustable on it to get it movin
Quote from: "Mustang"wait for the wheel ,the brake is the only thing that will hold for the torque you need ...................................
Actually, if you are disposing of the chain, take the wheel off and jam the chain with a block of wood. Much simpler when you are on your own :)
Quote from: "rybes"keep ya hammer out and gently knock it till it can move. dont hit it too hard ya just wanna loosen it. then get wigglin till it comes free. or..........if ya brave get a pair of stilsons or an adjustable on it to get it movin
I whacked it a few more times and nothing. Out of frustration (with all of the bolts out) I pulled in the clutch and it pushed the entire cover free. But I couldn't pull it off because of the slave cover. So I put four bolts back in the sprocket cover and attempted to take off the (banjo?) bolt to the slave cylinder thinking I would keep both covers together. I was hoping bleeding the clutch wouldn't be too bad. The bolt didn't budge but trying to twist the bolt did break the cover free. Bonus! Cover off and nothing broken so far.
Now, how do I remove the rock hard gasket from the sprocket cover?
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Jon
Plastic scraper.
Quote from: "JetdocX"Plastic scraper.
Ok, I will try that. Soaking the gasket in brake fluid didn't do a thing except give me a wicked headache.
Quote from: "CHL"Actually, if you are disposing of the chain, take the wheel off and jam the chain with a block of wood. Much simpler when you are on your own.
My first attempt at that failed. I took an 18" piece of 2x4, drilled a hole in it and make a sandwich out the chain and the 2x4 with a carriage bolt. I put the end of the 2x4 against the cross piece of the swing arm securing it in place against the left arm with zip ties. Part of that may have to do with the fact that I left the mc in neutral. Now of course I can't get it to shift into 1st w/o starting it and I can't start it b/c I have no oil in the mc. I may have to put the cover back on, put in the old oil, start it and get it into gear.
Ignoring that, how did you use the wood to jam the chain?
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Jon
I have the mc in gear and the chain fixed in place. Now the problem is getting the front sprocket nut to release. I tried a 4 foot breaker bar with my 1/2 inch ratchet. All that accomplished was a sore back. I bought some better penetrating lubricant. My plan is to 1. spray the nut, tap it a few times, let it set for a while, 2. repeat a bunch of times and 3. build some kind of stand so that I can put the nut under constant pressure with the breaker bar overnight. Is there a technique other than spraying, waiting and respraying and rewaiting and...?
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Jon
Don`t want to sound stupid, but i take it you have bent down the tabs on the lock washer first?
tight aren't they ?
I had one so tight once that a hammer and chisel was required to get the nut to break.
chisel against one of the flats just before the corner hex , three pound estwing sledge hammer , one good smack , nut loose .
Quote from: "rf9rider"Don`t want to sound stupid, but i take it you have bent down the tabs on the lock washer first?
I have the tabs bent back against the sprocket.
Quote from: "Mustang"tight aren't they ?
I had one so tight once that a hammer and chisel was required to get the nut to break.
chisel against one of the flats just before the corner hex , three pound estwing sledge hammer , one good smack , nut loose .
Ok, I probably will try that. I have sprayed penetrating fluid, tapped, waited and tried to loosen it. The nut was under about 150Nm of pressure all night. Nothing. The manual has it at 132Nm. I know I have exceeded 200Nm with the breaker.
One thing...this is a standard nut?...clockwise to tighten, counterclockwise to loosen? Wouldn't be the first time I had it backwards.
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jon
Heat and Kroil. An impact driver is your friend. And reasonably cheap these days considering the time/knuckle savings. :wink:
Quote from: "97tiger885"Quote from: "JetdocX"Plastic scraper.
Ok, I will try that. Soaking the gasket in brake fluid didn't do a thing except give me a wicked headache.
Quote from: "CHL"Actually, if you are disposing of the chain, take the wheel off and jam the chain with a block of wood. Much simpler when you are on your own.
My first attempt at that failed. I took an 18" piece of 2x4, drilled a hole in it and make a sandwich out the chain and the 2x4 with a carriage bolt. I put the end of the 2x4 against the cross piece of the swing arm securing it in place against the left arm with zip ties. Part of that may have to do with the fact that I left the mc in neutral. Now of course I can't get it to shift into 1st w/o starting it and I can't start it b/c I have no oil in the mc. I may have to put the cover back on, put in the old oil, start it and get it into gear.
Ignoring that, how did you use the wood to jam the chain?
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Jon
It's been a while and I can't remember the specifics. I do know that using the rear brake and sticking it in gear didn't work.
But you should wrap the chain around the wood and then jam the chain in place so it can't turn, but upon itself (imagine a figure of 8) - hence only do it if you are binning the chain (which should be about 99% of the time). Don't forget to protect your swingarm.
The other thing I found, I originally had a 12" breaker bar which failed to move it. I then bought a 24" which also failed to move it. I then bought a 36" bar which pretty much got it straight away. Leverage is definitely key on one that his been in place for some time.
Next time I do it, I'll grab some photos, which is going to be too late for you :(
get about a 5 foot long pc of this that will fit over ratchet handle (http://www.mylampparts.com/images/pipe/24950.jpg)
+
an assistant to mash the rear brake peadal down HARD !
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/repairs/chain%20job/101_1695.jpg)
put the pipe at 12 oclock and pull it down towards 9 oclock the nut should break free and then unscrew by hand ,believe it or not !
Been there, done that, bent a snap-on torque bar, replaced it under lifetime guarantee, and cut the nut off with a angle grinder. It's cheaper than hernia repairs and less dangerous than having an pneumatic impact driver socket shatter on you too.
Quote from: "BruKen"Been there, done that, bent a snap-on torque bar, replaced it under lifetime guarantee, and cut the nut off with a angle grinder. It's cheaper than hernia repairs and less dangerous than having an pneumatic impact driver socket shatter on you too.
That was the end result. I tried leverage...overnight even...no results.
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/0422011137.jpg)
I tried the hammer and chisel route...no results.
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/0423011552.jpg)
I tried heating, followed by leverage and the hammer and chisel...nothing.
Finally, it was the RoboZip with the angle grinder attachment. See above for photo. At first, I thought...no problem...I will cut into the sprocket. It is done anyway...then I thought hhmmm...why doesn't the sprocket spin with the axle. It can't be just a press fit...there must be teeth. I looked at the new sprocket...sure enough, teeth. That meant cutting thru into the sprocket but outside the diameter of the teeth or cutting partway into the nut inside the diameter of the teeth and using a chisel to shed the nut. I chose the second method.
Cut 1:
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/0423011514.jpg)
Cut 2:
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/0423011523.jpg)
Cut 3:
Hmmmmm, no pic available. I then hit it with lots of PB Blaster and whacked it with the chisel...spun right off.
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/0423011555.jpg)
With victory comes the pieces:
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/0423011554.jpg)
I am now at the the stage of putting on the new sprocket and chain. The Motion Pro kit is in my mailbox, the gasket is waiting at Capital Area Triumph, the new nut is on order and I am still waiting on the tire. Now I need to figure out how to use the rivet tool.
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/0423011736.jpg)
Nothing on the outside broken, threads intact. The question is whether I broke anything inside with all the pounding and twisting.
To be continued.
Glad you got it sorted. It looks like nothing would have shifted it.
Any thoughts on the use of anti-seize on the threads of the front sprocket nut? How about between the nut and the sprocket?
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Jon
Blue loctite would be better there. Helps hold the nut fast while also sealing the threads. :wink:
Anything special about the nut holding on the sprocket? I ask because of the following:
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/nut1.jpg)
Is this wear? Another shot:
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/nut2.jpg)
The tire is in...still waiting for the nut. If the nut is nothing special, then I can use the one I bought.
++++
Jon
the original nut is counter bored so that when you tighten it it tightens against the sprocket and not the shaft
Quote from: "Mustang"the original nut is counter bored so that when you tighten it it tightens against the sprocket and not the shaft
Does this mean I should definitely wait for the counter-bored nut?...or it would be good but not necessary to have a counter-bored nut?
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Jon
you need the counterbore ..................
The mc is back together and on the road. The final issue is getting the shift linkage right. First attempt gave me 2 thru 6. I adjusted the rod and got 1 thru 6 but it is not quite right.
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/SL2.jpg)
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/SL1.jpg)
Anybody see anything here?
Could someone post a photo of a linkage so I have a comparison shot?
Thanks for all the help. And Mustang...be afraid...be very, very afraid...anything you can fix in 3 hours I can fix in 3 weeks.
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JonC
move the bell crank on the shifter shaft 1 notch or spline 1 way or the other and it will be back where it feels right for you .
When I changed my sprockets I used a 1/2" drive 16" breaker and a thick 6' pipe. It took all my strength to finally move it.
I think the PO had recently changed the set which is why I didn't have your problem.
I changed the set myself because I realized that rubber block on the underside of the chain run had been missing and that finger of steel was running against the chain for who knows how long (I'd put about 500 miles myself on the chain in that condition) so I felt like I couldn't trust the chain anymore so I changed out the whole apparatus.
If someone reads this and doesn't understand what I mean by the "rubber block" thing, please ask. It's unique to the Steamer model. Don't want you to lose a chain while in motion!
In mid-April I started a chain/sprocket replacement. I had to cut off the sprocket nut; so, I ordered a new one. Triumph NA was out of stock. The nut finally rolled in on the 10th of this month. I am so very glad the local shop had a spare nut from a parts bike. I now have a spare.
I used a 1/2 in drive 24 in braker and I 3ft piece of pipe and mine came right off/
I did the chain & sprocket job yesterday. I too have a slight issue with the shifter now that it is back together. I have all the gears, but when I push the shift lever down (like to shift into 1st gear) there isn't any spring tension to bring it back up to it resting position. If I move the shifter up, it is fine. I didn't mess around at all in that area, so I can't see why things would have changed. Any thoughts?
question here fpr 97tiger885. whats that cage around your sidestand switch ? is it a standard tiger part or did you rob it off somthin else ? i want one :D
thats a std. tiger part they all came with
Quote from: "D-Fuzz"I did the chain & sprocket job yesterday. I too have a slight issue with the shifter now that it is back together. I have all the gears, but when I push the shift lever down (like to shift into 1st gear) there isn't any spring tension to bring it back up to it resting position. If I move the shifter up, it is fine. I didn't mess around at all in that area, so I can't see why things would have changed. Any thoughts?
are your dowel locating pins for the cover in place so the cover went back on the same exact spot it came off .
if the cover is maybe binding up the shift shaft a little bit on the bearing and seal .
Quote from: "Mustang"thats a std. tiger part they all came with
gutted. mines never had one and they dont list em on bike bandit or world of triumph. anyone got one they dont want :wink: :wink:
rybes bike bandit is showing it as part of the left hand control plate (foot peg bracket) for 165 USDollars :shock:
oh yeah, i see it. lookslike ts part of that engine mountin foot bracket plate.suddenly i dont want one :lol:
my two tigers I bought brand new have it .............the sidecar tug that I bought 2nd hand it is missing and looks like someone snapped it off in order to get at the switch :shock:
Quote from: "Mustang"are your dowel locating pins for the cover in place so the cover went back on the same exact spot it came off .
if the cover is maybe binding up the shift shaft a little bit on the bearing and seal .
I was maybe thinking that. The dowels seems to have lined up ok, but it might not have to be off by much to bind. Problem is I filled it with oil already. Maybe I will try to give it a couple whacks with a rubber mallet and see if that helps.
Quote from: "D-Fuzz"I was maybe thinking that. The dowels seems to have lined up ok, but it might not have to be off by much to bind. Problem is I filled it with oil already. Maybe I will try to give it a couple whacks with a rubber mallet and see if that helps.
if you lean the bike over on the right side ,even as little as this
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/repairs/100_1558.jpg)
you can take the cover off and not lose any oil .
I would lean the bike over and loosen all the bolts holding the cover on and see how the shift works with everything loose , then when it's shifting right tighten up the bolts .
The problem appears to be solved. I loosened the bolts on the cover a half turn and knocked the top of the cover with a piece of wood and a rubber mallet. It moved it just enough to get rid of the binding on the shaft. I retightened the bolts and it shifts as it should again. Finicky thing. :?
One another note, I installed a 19-tooth front sprocket along with the 48-tooth rear. It makes a pretty significant difference. time will tell if I actually like it or if it makes any difference in fuel economy.
(http://www.rockcrawler.com/features/newsshorts/02august/snapon_imc500.jpg)
Quote from: "D-Fuzz"One another note, I installed a 19-tooth front sprocket along with the 48-tooth rear. It makes a pretty significant difference. time will tell if I actually like it or if it makes any difference in fuel economy.
post ya findind D. id like to know what differnce it makes for ya as im thinkin of doin it meself.
Well, so far the biggest things I have found is:
- 1st gear much taller now, too tall for any off-road applications for sure
- Around town riding at 50km/h (30mph), the revs are around 4000rpm in 2nd gear. I don't normally ride in 2nd at that speed, but for short bursts between traffic lights, I can comfortably stay in 2nd without the engine buzzing away beneath me.
- At freeway speeds around 100-110km/h (60-65mph), in 6th gear revs are around 4000rpm or just slightly above. Taking the speed up to 120-125km/h keeps the revs around 4500rpm, which is about 500rpm lower than before.
I find the happy point for my engine seems to be around 4000rpm, so the bigger front sprocket seems to make the bike smoother at the speeds I tend to ride. I'd like to get a tank through on the highway to see what fuel economy is like. Hopefully that will happen on Friday. If I was using the bike for more dual-sport riding versus touring, I'd likely have installed a 17-tooth front, just to make 1st gear a bit lower.
When I first got my bike it had a 19 tooth primary. Worked very well on the highway but off road things got pretty exciting. So shortly after I got the Tiger I replaced chain and sprockets with an 18 tooth primary (factory default). If I rode reasonably, without a lot of twist in the grip, I could get up to 55 mpg. After my last chain and sprockets wore out I replaced the front with a 17 for more off road ability (should say off pavement as the Tiger is not a single track vehicle even though I keep trying). The 17 is better for off road but still not quite low enough for slow going. I think a taller rear would help. The mpg has dropped to ~46. I have noticed that a 1 tooth change in the primary gives just a bit less than 500 rpm change.
I'd pretty much agree with Milton's assessment. As far as my off-pavement riding goes, I don't ride much that requires me to stay in 1st gear that much, mostly gravel fire roads and such, so the 19-tooth front is ok. If I could find a spare sprocket cover, I think I would do the conversion to separate it from the oil filler. It would be nice to have easier access in there.
As far as the mpg rating....Wow! I've never got 50mpg, even if I was using imperial gallons. It seems lately I haven't been riding much under 75mph either, which doesn't help. On our trip last month, when we were riding around 60mph I was getting in the 40's and I was happy with that.
miltons bike has keihin carbs yours has mikunis .............there in lies the difference in mpg , mikunis are thirsty dogs especially at 70 mph and up
on the wifes 95 , I took it for a 325 mile trip once by myself and was slab riding at 100 mph + ...............had to fill the tank 3 times :shock:
That explains things. I admit my bike is a little less thirsty since I set up the carbs according to your recommendations, but at 80mph+ it is still thirsty. Oh well, that's the price of having fun, I guess. :D