No not the way your thinking,I was in Windy Corner today for the Americans on here one of two retailers in the UK well known for their Triumph connections,the other being Jack Lilley.
Now I've not long come out of a 3 year experience in the bike trade,the UK retail customer is an interesting animal,but as if thats not enough,a dealer who has put his heart and sole into a business just to have a suite from company turn up and pull the plug becuase it's not glitzy enough,is nothing short of criminal,not even allowed to be a service center,no doubt because company that has taken over elsewhere would loose out because WC reputation is/was so good.
Looks like Triumph are certainley competing with the Japanese importers when it comes to slash and burn. :(
Seems to be the way of the world all round these days Chris, I see the same at work. Dont matter if youve been the best at what you do for years, if your face dont fit the latest fashion your gone. I was brought up with the belief that a companys most important assets were its employees, dont seem that way anymore :(
The way Triumph are treating their dealers is the one thing that puts me off buying another one. You buy a bike from tour local dealer only to find they aren't next week so you gotta go somewhere else for your service/warranty.
I think it will cost them in the long run.
same thing happens on this side of the pond too!
Having had a good, long run at designing and building motor retail buildings (dealerships) in the past, for a wide range of manufacturers, I can confirm that the level of duplicity, business sneakiness and general a55hole-ness is quite high.
But... There is a lot more to it than you'd imagine however, so I'd be thinking about giving Triumph the benefit of the doubt. (for now) Has the dealer sold enough bikes? Do the premises meet the brand standards? Have there been a lot of complaints about the dealer? Is the dealer also selling bikes from other manufacturers and giving triumph sufficient precedence? Have they got enough workshop space? Is the dealer discounting the bike below what Triumph think is OK? Is the dealer able to demonstrate financial stability/sound business planning for the future? Is the dealership owner/principal about to retire? Is the lease up on the building and they can't afford the renewal unless they change business structure/swap dealers about? There are a million reasons "why" that might not be immediately apparent.
The dealer is unlikely to give you the whole story and Triumph will be looking for the most productive way to sell motorbikes and to protect their brand. That's what they do. That's what they gotta do. I have never seen a motor manufacturer work in any other way.
On paper I see nothing wrong with your post,except Triumph have gone round in circles here in the midlands and disappeared up their corperate ass,they started big with one dealer Idle garage went bust and took both Triumph and Honda and other private punters for a couple of Mil thats pounds!!,they then went small,Pole Postion/Black Country Motorcycle/Action Motorcycles/and one on the A45 who's name escapes me,all closed and now Windy Corner,and now their going the corperate bullshit route all smoke and mirrors,and anyone who's had a Triumph any length of time knows not to go anywere near a dealer unless he's been at it few years or has poached staff from else were.
Honda did the same to a solus dealer here in B'ham who had been selling Honda since 1964,and it's replacement last less than 2 years and shut.
The reality,they can't afford to leave the small guy in business because the punters will go to them given the choice for the personnel touch,and yet strangely enough Ducati are ahead of the game,while they still do the corperate thing,there are still service centers and independent oulets supplied by Ducati(in a round about way)
If Triumph want to be just A.N.other manafacturer they doing a pretty good job :( ,but with no bikes with variable fuel map/ajustable suspension they've a long way to go.
I have a bike with three fuel maps. You can keep that bullshit trickery. I have a right wrist that gives me an infinite level of control over the motorbike. :roll:
Sorry, but you brought it up.
As for the boutique dealerships...I don't need 'em. I try not to go there.
Quote from: "JetdocX"I have a bike with three fuel maps. You can keep that bullshit trickery. I have a right wrist that gives me an infinite level of control over the motorbike. :roll:
Sorry, but you brought it up.
Not at all but if Triumph want to go smoke and mirrors,they better come up with a dam sight more moden stuff than the making now,if Ducati can do it out of a garden shed in Bologna,then I'm sure they can.
Who's replacing them Chris, another car dealer?
Stratstone are replacing them according to Triumph's dealer finder...
Idunno. The Ducatis I'm seeing on this side of the pond are way too complicated. Some of them have 3 different computers on them and cost way too much. Duc is trying to outdo BMW. Guess what? I won't buy a BMW because they're just too complicated for their own good. Motorbikes are supposed to be essential.
That's what Diamler meant to make when he invented the motorcycle in 1890: something that could show off the power of the internal combustion engine in a compact form. Putting all these complex computers on this simple design approach you lose something of the beauty of it.
Quote from: "nickcalne"Stratstone are replacing them according to Triumph's dealer finder...
Yep,and just thinking about it Triumph do not have a dealer that has been going more than 3 or is that 4 :oops: years here in Triumphs backyard,and they've been going since 91,not much of a track record is it.
As for complicated,it's the way things are going,your average biker who doesn't know a bed spring from a shock spring thinks it's great that you can push a button and ajust it,and BM have the sales the prove it.
What happens when the bikes come down the food chain?? ah well thats another story!!!.
Quote from: "Chris Canning"What happens when the bikes come down the food chain?? ah well thats another story!!!.
I think we already know the answer to that one Chris, look at the 955i Tiger. Once you have FI on any bike it's too complex for most folks to fix, and many so-called Triumph workshops come to think of it. Without the likes of Tuneboy and TuneECU we'd all be at the mercy of the trade or with rough running bikes we can't sell on.
Cars are no different, but at least there's a healthy network of independent car workshops with intelligent techs armed with generic software that will allow them to diagnose accurately and fix problems.
As others have said though, Triumpgh is no better than anyone else. I know a BMW dealer that sank over a mil into new premises and BMW would still only give him a one year, year on year franchise. there's no loyalty. It's about selling the brand in the way the brand dictates, even down to sending in undercover agents to check on the sales process. And selling is the key. Customer and level of technical service comes a distant second.
Sometimes you get lucky though, a friend wrote to Mr Bloor direct complaining the heap of junk and about the tactics of a dealer he bought a Sprint ST from (bought as the cheapest deal he could find). Bike was never very good from the start, then on a service they tried to charge him for brake pads that didn't need doing, then his alarm went up in smoke. He included the baked alarm in the letter (have you smelt a burned out Datatool alarm? You'll never get the stink off your hands, trust me, I know). Triumph arranged for the bike to be inspected and serviced at a different dealer and it came back after 2 weeks like the bike he always knew it could be, it was brilliant. Needless to say which dealer he'll use in the future.
Well for me Triumph have been better,thats probably the whole point of my post,they've got to were they are because they have been different,if I can work it out why can't they!!.
Mainly, the folks that set up bike dealers are passionate about bikes, and usually will provide good service.
When they get bigger the accountants and marketing people take over. Seems the same for bike makers. John Bloor was quite clear about his ambition for the marque at the start but, of late, and whilst fighting their market share (it's that or go under) they are becoming a victim of their own success.
We can't complain too much though, Triumph listened after the 1050 came out and built the 800. Honda for instance are still trying to tell the customers what they need. Take the VFR1200 for instance, everyone wanted an updated Blackbird. We got something with a peanut tank and seat like a plank.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Take the VFR1200 for instance, everyone wanted an updated Blackbird. We got something with a peanut tank and seat like a plank.
And it looks appalling, all these new "insect" look bikes look rubbish to me, that's why I'm sticking with my Girly, which gets serviced, when there's something I don't want to do, at a Yamaha dealer :?
Quote from: "John Stenhouse"... when there's something I don't want to do, at a Yamaha dealer :?
Couldn't make it up could you? :lol:
I used to get the 'Bird serviced at the BMW dealer where I bought it (don't go there), the techs used to like getting their hands on something different. Then I discovered BSD at Peterborough who do most of the bike mags work. Marc had a 'Bird of his own and was really good with mine. Then when I got more time on my hands I started doing everything myself. Since my debacle with dealer re-mapping the Tiger's never been to anyone else.
In the midst of a huge economic recession Triumph is doing it here as well. RPM Motorworks was top in the region 4 times and top in the nation twice in R & R. Some formula Triumph has for their parts, service and customer apreciation numbers.
It was a perfect little 70's style dealership with Triumph only. The owner wore many hats, as it should be. Triumph in their infinite wisdom said. Build a new million dollar plus glitsy building in a high profile area or we are taking the dealership. H-D style
So under pressure from Triumph my "local" dealership is now in downtown St. Louis, which I despise. In a glitsy conglomerate dealership with KTM "dirt only" and Ducati, which they push and promote.
The Japanese lines have not gone there yet!
In all truth has anyone ever had a dealer they really, really trust? For the car I use the local garage as I'm friends with a few of the guys there. They do no better or cheaper job than anyone else, but at least they try hard for me. When they occasionally get something wrong, they fix it and we move on. With the bike you can't afford any kind of mistake and yet the standard of dealers and the mechanics therein is probably worse than for cars.
So maybe Chris is right to be p1ssed off as you can't build a rapport with an ever changing dealer. Stability - rerhaps that's something Triumph ought to consider and encourage. Maybe it's what they want, but the dealers themselves just can't keep it together in tough, ever changing times. Who knows...?
On the other note in this thread I would say I hope triumph stick with simple bikes that are easy to fix. Jeesh it's a comparatively expensive hobby without pointless electro-gismo's going wrong and costing a fortune all over the place. Don't need satnav, fuel computer, gear indicator, traction control, anti wheelie launch control or any of that stuff. Not interested in power commanders, chips, power control switches blah blah. Don't want a datatool alarm either.
I had my Tiggers valve clearances done at a Honda dealer, only because the spanner man there is ex Triumph and came recommended, more importantly he was Triumph all through the Nineties and up to 2007 so knows Tiggers well.
Buy him beer!
Often!
Quote from: "nickcalne"In all truth has anyone ever had a dealer they really, really trust? For the car I use the local garage as I'm friends with a few of the guys there. They do no better or cheaper job than anyone else, but at least they try hard for me. When they occasionally get something wrong, they fix it and we move on. With the bike you can't afford any kind of mistake and yet the standard of dealers and the mechanics therein is probably worse than for cars.
So maybe Chris is right to be p1ssed off as you can't build a rapport with an ever changing dealer. Stability - rerhaps that's something Triumph ought to consider and encourage. Maybe it's what they want, but the dealers themselves just can't keep it together in tough, ever changing times. Who knows...?
On the other note in this thread I would say I hope triumph stick with simple bikes that are easy to fix. Jeesh it's a comparatively expensive hobby without pointless electro-gismo's going wrong and costing a fortune all over the place. Don't need satnav, fuel computer, gear indicator, traction control, anti wheelie launch control or any of that stuff. Not interested in power commanders, chips, power control switches blah blah. Don't want a datatool alarm either.
It's the rapport thing,the net makes it too smaller world to go into detail,but my days of paying retail are long gone,getting a bike MOT'd :wink: ,chains/sprockets/tyres it's a two way thing with my suppliers,but I now find I'm out on limb with the Tiger,wheels brakes suspension and just about anything else I do,but I don't set the motor up,I've only got one as opposed to a.n.other who deals with loads,but I have to say going to what is now my local dealer Pure Triumph in good old sunny Birmingham and being treated as a faceless punter,does not sit well with me at all.
Quote from: "Chris Canning"... being treated as a faceless punter,does not sit well with me at all.
I know exactly what you mean, had it happen at the BMW place when I had my 650GS and the service manager changed. Luckily the owner intervened or I'd not have gone back.
Also happened recently at my Nissan dealer. The lady that had seen us spend over 50k with them down the years left and suddenly we were just "a faceless punter" as you put it. It takes years of cultivation to get a good relationship going but it can be lost in a moment - either way....
Actually, Windy Corner dumped Triumph because Triumph wouldn't allow them to sell any other marque of motorcycle.
It's not about Triumph dumping WC, but the other way around.
I strongly suspect, that WC were looking to sell Victory cycles as well as Triumph's and have decided to put their eggs in the Victory basket.
I am with Triumph on this one. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with selling any brand of second hand motorcycle. Hughendon M40 always seem to have more second hand - none Triumph - motorcycles out front than they have Triumph's in the showroom.
I don't want to go to a car dealer to buy my motorcyle stuff
the guy that works on my bike for me isn't even licensed but he does however build aircraft engines and I know that whatever I ask him to do will be done correctly and with attention to detail.
Quote from: "CoolHandLuke"Actually, Windy Corner dumped Triumph because Triumph wouldn't allow them to sell any other marque of motorcycle.
It's not about Triumph dumping WC, but the other way around.
I strongly suspect, that WC were looking to sell Victory cycles as well as Triumph's and have decided to put their eggs in the Victory basket.
I am with Triumph on this one. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with selling any brand of second hand motorcycle. Hughendon M40 always seem to have more second hand - none Triumph - motorcycles out front than they have Triumph's in the showroom.
That is factually incorrect.
Victory turned up after Triumph had sent the letter chopping them off.
Quote from: "Chris Canning"Quote from: "CoolHandLuke"Actually, Windy Corner dumped Triumph because Triumph wouldn't allow them to sell any other marque of motorcycle.
It's not about Triumph dumping WC, but the other way around.
I strongly suspect, that WC were looking to sell Victory cycles as well as Triumph's and have decided to put their eggs in the Victory basket.
I am with Triumph on this one. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with selling any brand of second hand motorcycle. Hughendon M40 always seem to have more second hand - none Triumph - motorcycles out front than they have Triumph's in the showroom.
That is factually incorrect.
Victory turned up after Triumph had sent the letter chopping them off.
You are right about Victory, my source was bad, sorry.
Here is an alternative view from Roger:
QuoteDear Windy Corner Customer
You will have witnessed Triumph Motorcycle sales growing at an astonishing rate, globally, in the recent years.
This has placed massive demands on its dealerships. Large High Street showrooms and work shops are now required to cater for the ever expanding Triumph model range. Increased workshop and sales staff are required to handle the expected extra flow of customers and sales.
We have been an agent for Triumph Motorcycles for 19 years and have enjoyed being part of their impressive growth, with 2009 being the most successful year for Windy Corner Triumph in Sales, Service Parts and Accessories.
Here at Windy Corner, Barwell we no longer meet the requirements of Triumph Motorcycles Ltd so have to 'Hand over the Baton' mid 2010 to an incoming large Motor Car Group, Stratstone.
Please do not think this is 'The End' for Windy Corner. Triumph Motorcycle sales and servicing together with parts, clothing and accessory sales will continue at our Barwell site as Windy Corner, World of Two Wheels albeit without factory blessing.
We intend to take our 'Award Winning' customer service and attention to detail (something you have become used to) into the fabulous Victory Motorcycles plus quality, low mileage, pre-owned machines of all marques, including Triumph of course.
We would like to extend our 'thanks' to all our customers for their support over the years and look forward to your continued support in the new chapter beginning mid 2010, Windy Corner, World of Two Wheels.
We would also like to extend our 'Thanks' to the hundreds of Triumph owners who have joined in our R.A.T events over the years. Our events will continue and will be open to all makes, as The Windy Corner Rider's Club.
Please feel free to contact me via email should you have any comments.
Ride safely
Roger
Windy Corner, World of Two Wheels
01455 842922
roger@windycorner.co.uk
Wonder what Roger meant when he said "we no longer meet the requirements of triumph" ?? It sounds very much like my little 'Triumph only' shop in Lakewood Wa. Not a fancy store, old building, only 5 employees (including Lon, the tech) Excellent service & really good to customers. I'm now concerned about their survival. It's the people there, but also partly selfish, as I dont want to ride 60 miles to Seattle to get service on my new 800, while under warranty. But also would change my satisfaction level as a cutomer if they 'take out' a small shop that is competent & fun to go to. Hope Triumph factors in the customers experience into their business equation. We're why they're successful.
Quote from: "jphish"Hope Triumph factors in the customers experience into their business equation. We're why they're successful.
Don't be silly!!!
Quote from: "jphish"Wonder what Roger meant when he said "we no longer meet the requirements of triumph" ??
Most vehicle manufacturers have requirements for their showrooms / dealers. If you wanna be the dealer in the territory you gotta meet the brand requirements or no go. The bigger Triumph get the more likely they are to make dealers tow the line and the more likely they are to make their dealership brand requirements more involved.
Typically the brand requirements set out how big the dealership should be, how much of the range it needs to accommodate, how much new stock, how much used bikes etc But they can also require geographical position, amount of window space, not sharing the building with other manufacturers, - the list can be extensive down to the carpets, door handles and in the case of some manufacturers, the toilet roll holder in the bogs.
All this gives them the perfect excuse to withdraw the franchise from dealers they don't like for other, typically commercial, reasons.