Have I gone mad?

[Sin_Tiger]

A new steamer would be best. 

  but what colour 

[Nick Calne]

One with a euro compliant 1050 engine grafted in.

[ghulst]

Not sure if I'd want to go that way. To be honest, one of the biggest things I noticed on my rides yesterday, was my ride on the Tiger. I mean, I really like that bike, but I remember why I ride it less than I did my 1150GS or my steamer. The ergonomics are just not suiting me that well. :( It never really hit me that much, as I bought the Tiger after a short stint on a DR800 single-cylinder, so after that, everything is comfy. :D  But when I compared it to the KTM and the Yamaha, I really felt the difference. More on the Yamaha than the KTM even. And it goes a lot further than just changing the position of the handlebars, I think.

To get back to those rides, just a quick recap. The KTM was something. The 890 Adventure R has got a lot of grunt if you are willing to get it up in the rev range all the time. It was no fun to ride under 4000rpm and above that, it is in full attack mode all of the time. Another thing I really couldn't get used to was the lightness of all the switchgear, the shifter pedal, and the brake. You did not know you were pushing it, yet something happened. If you then combine that with the overall nervousness of the bike, I knew very quickly that I was not going to be friends with this bike.
The Yamaha was a different story. At least the shifter, the brakes, and the throttle had some weight to them. You feel something when you work them and that was a lot better. The engine also had much more low grunt, though noticeably less top end. I guess all the reviewers love their top end and drive in full hooligan-mode all the time. I am not one of those people, so the Yammie suited me much better. I will not lie, I love the looks of that bike. Especially that blue Rally version is something I love the look of. However, the saddle is what is known in the business as 'effective' and 'rally worthy'. In layman's terms, that means that it is rock hard and easy to slide along. That will have advantages in some places, just not on the open road where I use my bikes most. The wind protection is also less than I would want to have. I didn't even notice that on the KTM as I was too busy being annoyed with other things, but on the Yamaha, I really felt like it needed a bigger screen and a nicer saddle. And that would obviously kill the looks.

So, on with the program. I've got three big bikes lined up for Wednesday.

[Sin_Tiger]

Don't worry Nick's just having a dig at me  turns out that's not as easy as it first looks, so other plans are brewing 

That's what happens when professional magazine riders do reviews, they tend to focus a lot more on performance 

Ergonomics are so personal and can make or break a decision. I used to ride my XC 800kms in a day, Singapore to the Thailand border, it worked for me with nothing more than an adjustable spoiler on the stock screen. I had an hour on my friends cast wheel model of the same year and really noticed the difference from the comfort aspect which I found strange, as on paper it shouldn't have made that much difference 

[Nick Calne]

Can I guess, Sin?

Is it putting a boat engine in a steamer? Or better still putting a steamer engine in a boat?

Ghulst - we looking forward to the outcome later today!

[Sin_Tiger]

Can I guess, Sin?

Is it putting a boat engine in a steamer? Or better still putting a steamer engine in a boat?

Ghulst - we looking forward to the outcome later today!

Same issue with engine mounting points and spine frame, Google Doxford Opposed Piston engine to see why 

Is an Afrika Twin not in the running?

[ssevy]

If I had the scratch, I'd love to test ride some bikes, but I prefer to continue riding my Steamer, oblivious to all of the wonders of a modern machine.
I once test rode a sprint 1050 that was local to me for a friend in a distant state. I showed up on my 99 Legend, we switched bikes and rode some great roads, and then switched again and rode home. Compared to that 1050, my Legend was so underwhelming. That ride taught me never to test ride anything I couldn't afford, and so it has been since that day.
If I were in your shoes(riding boots?), I would be test riding everything that I could afford, and let the bike tell me when it's "the one".
Can't wait to read your impressions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ghulst]

Ghulst - we looking forward to the outcome later today!

Well, because of all kinds of circumstances (amongst which was major server-surgery of which this site profits as well), I had to postpone my meeting with the three big beasts until next week. However, I will try to ride a Ducati Multistrada tomorrow afternoon after some performance work has been done on the Saab. Not sure whether that will work out, but I hope it will.

Is an Afrika Twin not in the running?

It was actually on the list in my first post. I hope to ride that next week. If all goes well the dealer will have a Triumph Tiger 900 Rally Pro, a BMW R1250GS and a Honda Africa Twin 1100 for me to ride.

If I were in your shoes(riding boots?), I would be test riding everything that I could afford, and let the bike tell me when it's "the one".

Funny you say that. I always also ride stuff that is beyond what I can afford. Mainly to see what way I need to look. Years ago, Triumph had a test ride thing where you could sign up to drive any Triumph and get a t-shirt after the ride. Needless to say, I jumped on that and test rode a Tiger 800XC. That bike was totally out of my budget as I could barely afford the '89 Honda Transalp 600 I had at the time. However, the bike did open my eyes to the joys of owning a triple. So, that triggered my search for the next best thing. I dug into Triumph-ness and found out there were more Tiger predecessors and ended up realizing that Steamers were the cheapest option to get a Triumph triple in an allroad frame. And so the search started. I sold my Transalp reasonably well and found a steamer from an inheritance, made an offer and the rest is history as they say. Now, some years and some bikes later, I have made the jump up to the 800XC I wanted years ago albeit an older one with quite some miles on it.
Right now, the situation is different as the business is doing well and I need to make some investments to not sponsor my tax man too much. (Believe me, I am wiring them some serious bike money regularly.) So, the search is on for whatever I like. Well, within reason, obviously. However, a 1250GS is not off the cards especially as BMW understand entrepreneurs and have much more attractive financial arrangements than the other brands have. And that is something that will have to weigh in at some point as well. After all, this is obviously a serious investment.

[Sin_Tiger]

  missed the AT in the earlier post.

I haven't done a test ride for a long time for reasons much as Ssevy says. The XC for me was the nearest I came to a "Steamer Feel" although many may disagree. I did ride the first model year Explorer and was pleasantly surprised just how easy it was to ride but didn't make quite the same connection. I rode several GS's out east, more because friends wanted to try a triple than me wanting a GS. Without prejudice, I really did not enjoy any of the GS's, in fact given the choice I felt more at home on the big Tenere but hated the looks and the dealer support was reputedly almost as bad as BMW at that time and place.

Now about that SLAB 

[Nick Calne]

We are lucky to have such choice. Very lucky.

From memory, the best upgrade for the saab was better front tyres.

[ghulst]

Well, here we go. A quick update to catch all of you up on what has been going on...





As I mentioned, the Saab has been tuned a little bit, so that was also an awesome opportunity to visit a Ducati dealer in that area. Did I mention that when you drive up in a convertible on a sunny day, and you have used sunscreen, clean your face before you put on your lid. The sunscreen will come along with your sweat and it hurts your eyes badly. Don't ask me how I know...





So, I had seen the 1260 Enduro back in October and I really liked the look and finish of the whole bike. That is not paint, that color is in the plastics, so that is really neat. The saddle is pretty narrow in between your legs and wider underneath your bum, so it is pretty comfortable to sit on. The bike also gave me a lot of confidence, so on my fourth turn, the lean angle on the bike was at least as steep as on my Tiger. The 1260 is pretty much an rpm machine. It loves you to rev it and you really feel as if the bike enjoys that a lot. If you are in the lower revs, it takes it a while to wake up, but when you are up in the rev range, it is off like a dog chasing the ball you just threw. With a matching smile on its face. Did I already say I loved the look of it?





When I got back, the V4S was ready for me. This no longer is a twin and the tests in the magazines rate this highly. In a German magazine, it almost beat the GS, so I had high expectations. Plus, it is the current ultimate gadget machine. So, I started off trying the adaptive cruise control as soon as I could. Which is a very, very nice feature. Especially when you do a lot of motorway miles, this will be a great thing to have on your bike. (Yes, bikers get lazier by the day. Holding the throttle for four hours at 120 is just no fun at all.) Anyway, that was about the best thing about the V4S. It felt alright, but I could not angle it as I did the Enduro and the engine was supple and nice but did not have any 'happy moments' as the 1260 had. It just did what you asked of it, but there was no excitement in it.


Unfortunately, they no longer make the 1260, so the only one I could buy was the demo and I am not sure I would want to do that.

[ghulst]

A double post? From the forum-guy???    Yes, sorry. I felt it would be too much to put both test days in one post. It would be too much to read.


Anyway, it was the perfect morning this morning. 20 degrees, nice and sunny and so I got my Tiger out for a reference run before going out to the dealership. After all, it is just much easier to compare new bikes when you ride them back to back.



The first turn went to the Tiger 900. Fortunately, they gave me a white one to match my own Tiger. Unfortunately, they only had the GT Pro and not the Rally Pro, which I thought of buying. The first part of the ride was taken up by me playing with the controls and settings. There is just too much going on on this bike and I do find the switch between the mode button and the rest of the settings with the little 'joystick' a bit confusing. So, I settled on Road and Sport mode and decided to just ride. Which was nice. The Tiger is a nice bike, but honestly, it is not that different from my 800XC. So, I don't think I'd shell out another 12K to trade in mine on this. Unfortunately, I spent too much time comparing and not thinking about taking a picture, so I took one in front of the dealership...



When I got back, the biggest of the three beasts was waiting for me. A 1250GS with full luggage set. It really was a much better version of my old 1150GS with more power, more torque and more gadgets. ESA worked nicely and the engine pulled well from very low to very high. Great riders bike. And it gave me a bit of excitement when I decided to quickly open up the whole throttle on an empty road in third gear. And it pulled a wheelie. Well, a very small one as the bike immediately corrected it, but it was a wheelie. 
The only thing I really found lacking on the GS was the wind protection. That could probably be solved with a bigger screen. But other than that there were just little things like the actual sound the engine makes and the lack of real excitement. Again, this engine just does what you ask from it and it does that in a very convincing way. But you always feel that the GS is just listening to your commands and making them happen. It never seems to be doing something that it really likes itself. There is more than enough power in the package though. I was stuck behind a large lorry and two vans and just overtook them on a local road. I would not have done that on the Tiger...




And then there was the Honda. To be honest, I really wanted this bike to win as I really do like the look of the Africa Twin. I also do like the sound of the engine as it reminds me of my old Transalps, but then on steroids. Unfortunately, the dealership did not give me an 1100, but a 1000, so that has 10hp and quite some Nm less than the 1100. Also, most of the 1100 gadgetry was not on this and that did not do the bike justice. All of the bikes did have quick shifters and the one on the Africa Twin was the most convincing one in my opinion. But as I had never ridden with one, that does not mean much in this world. On the AT the wind protection could need some help and the saddle was pretty hard as well. It did give me a very 'commanding feel' though. As though I was just able to bend traffic around the bike. Disclaimer, when I tried it, that did not really happen, so I did need to stay in my lane.


So, what did I learn today? It is not going to be a Tiger as it does not make sense to spend the money to get the same bike. The other two? Well, the GS is the ultimate mile muncher. I can imagine getting on it, riding 1000 miles and then grabbing a sandwich. The Africa Twin is more of an adventure machine and it looks as if it is ready to ride you to Kenia to go spot some of the big five. However, it does take work to ride it, the saddle is terrible and it has less power than the GS. But you do turn your head after you have parked it.


Up for the next round. No idea on what though. I think I do like to try a real 1100.

[Lee337]

Sounds like an eventful few days.

[ghulst]

Oh, it absolutely has been. But now there are so many new questions.

[Sin_Tiger]

Great to be able to do that and not feel like a fraud as I would    Good comparisons 

Not a big fan of impregnated colour plastics, they all seem to fade with long exposure to UV  maybe that's not such a problem in the UK. I also worry about not being able to touch up a scratch. My tech toy wish list all got crossed off about 2005, I use only about 20% of what the SE can do.

I use cruise control a lot both bike and car and find it useful, in fact I miss it when I don't have it. I have used a couple of vehicles with the adaptive cruise and it worked but I didn't like it and it seems that you if have adaptive, you can't configure it for non-adaptive. On a busier dual carriageway or motorway I found it slowed down coming up on traffic while I looked for an overtake lane gap, then didn't get back up to matching lane speed quickly enough without overriding. Seemed to still be locked onto the vehicle I'd just pulled out to pass, this was evident on three different makes and I couldn't figure out how to configure it to do otherwise. I concluded I didn't want it on a bike.