Pops bangs and rough running

[Stretch]

Oof.  It's so hard to find a good dealer.

[oxnsox]

Not Good BB... You may be right about the state of his battery but it is more likely related to the way he connected it to your bike... you know sparks and arcs and surges....  Theres sensitive bits ensconced in an ECM which can easily be befuddled by bad power.
Of course a manufacturer can design and engineer these things to minimise the likelyhood of that, but they only go soo far.... it's a money thing... :?

Some years back I was wandering thru Leicester Square and spied a van full of Geeks with far too many aerials on it, all pointing at a Picture theatre. Just a little intrigued I asked the bloke outside having a fag what was going on...  He told me they were going around the country gathering 'background noise levels' (this in an electrical and RF sense) so that ECM designers could take these into account and cater for them in their designs.  Essentially to ensure that when you drove your box past say a shopping center, airport, radio-station, celltower etc that the ECM unit didn't get confused by the 'noise' and do something silly like accelerate, brake or deploy the airbags....

The really interesting, and relevant bit, in all this. These blokes were funded by ECM and vehicle manufacturers to identify the problem and come up with a solution that had a per unit (vehicle) cost of......
....under 50p ($1).

[Sin_Tiger]

..  He told me they were going around the country gathering 'background noise levels' (this in an electrical and RF sense) so that ECM designers could take these into account and cater for them in their designs.  

Yup, with certain Range Rover immobiliser & alarm systems of the early 00's, it's known if you drive into certain filling stations the car wouldn't start due to interference from the radio controlled remote price signs (cost of petrol going up as fast as it did   ). Some owners found out the hard way that if they pushed the vehicle off the forecourt to clear the pump for others that suddenly it started again  :?: I believe LR sorted it once they knew what caused it.

I am of the firm opinion that the reason there are fewer UFO sightings now is because the alien ECM's are all screwed from the leaked radio crap in our atmosphere  :lol:

[Stretch]

I am of the firm opinion that the reason there are fewer UFO sightings now is because the alien ECM's are all screwed from the leaked radio crap in our atmosphere  :lol:

Makes sense.  The infamous 'Roswell Incident' occurred just a few years after the beginning of radio broadcasts of soap operas.  Poor devils.

[Sin_Tiger]

Makes sense.  The infamous 'Roswell Incident' occurred just a few years after the beginning of radio broadcasts of soap operas.  Poor devils.

 :lol:  :lol: I always thought 'Neighbours" was the work of Satan  :oops:

[Bixxer Bob]

Reminds me of an incident with neighbours a couple of years ago.  All neighbours within about 50 yards of where I live started to have problems with their car locking remotes and some cars wouldn't start until pushed up the road a bit.  Eventually, unbeknown to me, one neighbour called OFCOM (interference investigators in the UK) bloke turned up on my doorstep accusing me of blazing out RF on 433mhz and 2.4ghz (public frequencies).  I invited him in because it's my job in the military to know a bit about this stuff.  He couldn't find anything that might be the culprit, but I persuaded it might be next door on the adjacent wall.  Neither of us could explain the dual frequencies though.

Neighbour was helpful and he quickly identified the source.  Neighbour had bought a video sender so her son could watch satellite tv in his bedroom (takes output from the satellite box and transmits it on 2.4 ghz to receiver module upstairs.  It was faulty and pushing out loads of sideband white noise which would interfere with car ECMs. One half of the problem solved then.  A bit more investigation revlealed that the module incorporated a tv remote function back to the satellite box downstairs.  This was jammed on continuous transmit - on 433mhz!!! Hence the remote locking probs.  Neighbour took it back to the dealer and had it replaced and all the problems went away.

[Bixxer Bob]

Having hijacked my own thread, I thought I should get back to the subject in hand.  After three weeks, I'm now back to where I started before the dealer screwed up big time, including I fixed the errant rev counter.

In the last couple of days, my Tuneboy arrived and that, plus hours of reading everything I can about the Sagem S1000 ECM (there's loads of good info on the Tuneboy site for starters) I have drawn the following conclusions:

1.  The dealer's a dick.
2.  The rev counter reading 4k with the engine stopped was caused by an incorrect (note not corrupt) map.
3.  Did I mention the dealer's a dick?
4.  The throttle bodies not fueling was caused by low battery voltage.
5.  The dealer's still a dick.
6.  A new battery and a remap back to standard fixed all of the above probs in about 5 mins.
7. The dealer's dickness is not improving...

What I worked out is that problems the dealer said were caused by either my farkle wiring or a bad earth or both, was in fact a duff battery.  New battery solved those problems.

The rev counter problem was more interesting... the map the dealer loaded just before the problems started was for a 2005 Speed Triple tune(God only knows why he did that).  I discovered the ECM tune has two parts: a base program and the map.  The Tiger base is the same as the base of the Daytona ECM that I bought from Ebay - explaining why that cured the rev counter problem temporarily even though it didn't run very well because the fueling was wrong. However, the Speed Triple has a completely different base program - hence the rev counter playing up.  As soon as I loaded the standard Tiger tune the rev counter behaved normally.   Engine runs smoothly so if I have time, I'll take her for a run tomorrow night.
   :lol:

[Bixxer Bob]

Having had some time to reflect, I've been pretty hard on my dealer on here, and his guys were always courteous and helpful - although one could argue not always knowledgeable. I think maybe they created a problem in their zeal to give me back a fully sorted bike, and then lost their way when it gave them problems they didn't understand.

I'm not sure I could keep my cool going into the shop face to face if they were anything less than apologetic so I intend to write to them and try to square it that way. Life's too short etc...

Not sure I'll ever let them near my bike again though :roll:


Anyway, with a Tuneboy I have a whole new world to explore and understand. And then I could offer my services to my dealer as a freelance ECM troubleshooter :lol:

[Stretch]

I'm glad it turned out alright for you, Bob.

I agree though, it is easy to be hard on a dealer.  We who love and intimately know a certain model expect the Triumph dealer to know our bikes as well as we do.  After all, he's the dealer, right?  He has access to all the factory information and service issues, right?

Considering how many bikes a dealer would have to keep up with if he actually knew each one as well as we know Tigers... is unrealistic at best.  My own dealer, whom I have a great deal of respect for, is completely clueless about Tigers.  When I took mine in for a TOR tune reload, it was the first Tiger he'd seen in two years.  They just don't have much call for them in this area, so he spends his time with bikes he actually has to deal with.  That's reasonable.

I'm glad to hear there was nothing wrong with your original ECM.  In my dealings here on TigerTriple, I have only heard of two bad ECM's... Kev187 (after his bike was hit by a car), and SilverStripes.  There are a few ongoing threads dealing with rough running, and I'm wondering how many of those issues are also due to tune maps that have somehow been corrupted.

[Bixxer Bob]

Agreed Stretch.

My getting a Tuneboy is only the beginning.  I plan to learn all I can about what goes on inside the ECM and use that to cure my surging and popping on overrun if at all possible.  I'll start a thread and keep it up to date as I go so that we can all benefit.  After all,  I've made a substantial financial investment in the Tiger now, may as well see it through.  

Meanwhile, I've started work on a set of headlamp wire guards.  I'll take some photos as I'm going and post it as a project when I'm done if it's good.  I'm trying to keep away from any processes (such as welding) that others won't have readily to hand so others can have a go too.  My idea is similar to the Touratech ones, but without the ugly mounting arrangement (or the outrageous price).  So far I spent $10 on a garden sieve to use the wire mesh because I couldn't find anything else suitable.  

[Stretch]

Most of my Tiger projects were done with scrap metal.  Let 'er eat.

[Bixxer Bob]

Last update on this one; after re-doing my farkle wiring, took her to work today - 70 mile round trip - with a standard post vin 955i Tiger map and all trims set to zero, inc the throttle posn, runs very sweet, better than all the time I've owned her.  Surging is much reduced, still there slightly but much better, and popping on overrun is all but gone.  Still burbles a bit but no loud bangs.  This popping cure might have been due to fixing all the leaks in the pipe joints though.  

Next is to play about witht he map, compare it with the TOR etc and see if I can get it spot on.

For what it's worth, it seems a good battery, a clean uncorrupt map and zeroing trims will fix the worst of our troubles.

[Sin_Tiger]

7. The dealer's dickness is not improving...

    missed that first time around.

I found when I actually got to speak to the mechanics, they were quite knowledgable but what they were telling me wasn't the same message I was hearing at front of house and vice versa, what I told the desk didn't have the same meaning by the time it got to the worshop. I know few other nationalities understand Jockanese but you'd think we'd be able to understand each other  :roll: GONAENODAETHAT

Back OT Glad to hear your getting somewhere Bob, Sagem God status (is there such a thing?) in the offing maybe  

[EvilBetty]

Well I'm not about to drop money on a Tuneboy right now, but I have a new battery on order, a new exhaust clamp in hand, and a little hope in my heart :)

I was planning on getting the TOR tune done tomorrow but I won't be able to clean up the exhaust joints and seal it back up until Saturday.  Then I might as well wait till I have a good battery before I let them load the new tune.

[Bixxer Bob]

New battery first is a good idea EB.  I'm sure that my poor battery was the cause of most of my woes (corrupt maps etc), not helped by the fact that the dealer was using a jumper battery that must've been flat also.  Otherwise the mapping issues shouldn't have occured.  The Tuneboy info sheets warn of the connection between a poor battery and failed loads.  I read somewhere (I'll have to track it down again) that writing to the ECM requires a certain voltage which a poor battery can't manage.  That ties in with what I know about blowing eproms in the old days, but we're getting off subject now.

I have heard of ECMs going comatose due to failed tune loads caused by low volts, but I'm not sure how that's possible.  The instruction set in the chip which controls the up / download is seperate from the volatile memory where you blow the tune so shouldn't be affected by anything done to the tune.  I'm no expert though so I'll try to read up on it, unless there's a ready-made chip expert out there?