front cam chain guide explody - help!

[mantramoto]

Thanks Mustang - I will post after I have removed the head. I am only able to work on it very occasionally. The next job is to scoot back the airbox and remove the carbs. My new cases should be in soon so I can compare them and see if I can use the older one or not - I don't think I will know till it comes off. Even though I would like to replace the lower case I have a feeling that replacing it may be way over my head as it would require me to swap out the tranny, clutch etc. - corect?

[metalguru]

Be careful just replacing the upper case only as these cases are line bored at manufacture to match each other. If you are replacing the cases it is a full strip out anyway. Just take it step by step according to the manual and they are very straight forward, just remember to clean everything very well removing ALL traces of gasket and gasket goo and assemble in an environment you would be happy to eat from. You have been confident to go in and have a look so the rest is proceedure. Believe me I have seen far worse cases that have been repaired and are fine as there is plenty of 'meat' where the chain has made contact, looks like the tensioner has failed in your case. If you do carry on and strip the lump label and bag parts for later assembly and if you get really stuck then just ask.

[Mustang]

^^ this

and take lots of pics before and as you disassemble they will help refresh your memory 3 months from now

[mantramoto]

A little excited but mostly nervous - thanks for all the advice! I will keep you posted...

[mantramoto]

So before I start trying to bang off the head - what is the bolt shown here and do they need to come out first (there are two of them on either side of the head - stainless I think)? Haynes does not mention them - it just says "remove the head", after mentioning other screws. In addition to these - do I need to take anything else out that is in there? Or do I just take off the carbs, remove the two bolts attaching the head to the frame and bang away? Thanks for the help!

[JetdocX]

I can't see what you're pointing at.  

There are two bolts on the exhaust side that need to be removed before the head will come off.  They are inverted, head down screwing up into the head.  They will probably take an angle driver to remove.

[mantramoto]

Thanks JetdocX, I have taken care of everything on the exterior - these stainless steel ones are inside and sunken down next to the spark plug.

[mantramoto]

Well whatever those screws are that I mention above they obviously don't need to come out to lift the head. Today I was able to remove the carbs and air filter, support the engine and lift the head.  I am finding it difficult to get the head out from under the frame because the engine bolts (8 of them) are too long to pull out the top as they hit the frame. As pictured here you can see that too much of the bolt remains inserted into the case to slip the head off to either side. I think tomorrow I will try zip tying the bolts halfway pulled out to see if that gives me enough room. Any other ideas are EXTREMELY welcomed. Please excuse the excessive mud/dirt - I use the bike primarily off road.

[mantramoto]

Here is an angelic glow over the head of my Steamer with the carbs dangling out of the way on the left. The angels were singing when I got the carbs and air filter off and then sighed when I couldn't get the head off. Keep in mind - I'm a winemaker - not a mechanic.

[Mustang]

<HINT>ya know if you unhook the throttle cable at the twist grip you can put the carbs on the bench and won't run the risk of ruining a perfectly good throttle cable </HINT>

it will be a lot easier for you if you unhook the alternator and pickup sensor  wires and put a jack under the sump and pull out the remaining four engine bolts and loosen the swing arm pivot bolts and let the lump down out of the frame .
you also have to get the chain and front sprocket before you can drop the engine . oh yeah the skid pan and footpegs gotta go to if you haven't already removed them

[mantramoto]

Thanks Mustang - I thought I would take the easy way out this time round but much more complicated stuff may be in my near future. Thanks JetdocX for the idea of holding 4 of the 8 bolts with the zip ties to get the head out - it worked like a charm! However, now that the head is off I am able to see the damage to the case where the slot should be for the front cam chain guide - in the pictures you will see that it is almost non-existent as it has been ground down by the loose chain that was in there before. I have included a picture of what the slot should look like from the new cases I bought. The guide will still fit in the old case but it is not nearly as secure.

Do you think that I could get away with using the cases the way they are or is that asking for trouble? It seems that with the head in place keeping the guide snug and the pressure of the chain it would keep things where they need to be but maybe someone else has more experience with this than me (like everyone here!).

I would love to not change out the cases because that seems like it would be 10 times the work that I am already committed to by using the old case as is. How huge of a job is it to swap out the cases? I know all the guts of the engine need to be swapped out once it has been removed but do they come out as individual pieces or does some of the stuff come out partially assembled (does that make sense?)?

Also - in looking at the area around the cylinder sleeves I see a considerable amount of what looks like sludge. Is that from small amounts of oil getting into the coolant from the sleeves that may not be completely sealed or is that just old coolant that has turned weird? I have only had the bike for about a year and I doubt if the previous owner drained the coolant much. The strange thing is that I never saw coolant in the oil - I would think that if oil got into the coolant then coolant would get into the oil.

Sorry to be so long winded but I am at a critical point of deciding what to do. Thanks in advance for any input!

[JetdocX]

Unless you're figuring on unloading that bike very soon, I'd do the extra work.  Think of it a penance for riding on with the bike making massively bad noises.  Bad boy!  Disassemble engine!

The sludge is from old nasty coolant.  Maybe it's time to clean and flush your radiator and thermostat.

I have a real service manual if you would like to borrow it.  Sounds like you may need it.  Baby steps and small bites.  Beg, borrow or steal any special tools you may need along the way.  

You're going to need a higher quality torque wrench to reassemble the engine.  Start looking for one now.  I may even be able to loan you one, provided I'm not using it at work.

[mantramoto]

Thanks JetdocX - I may take you up on the generous offer! I have one from cycle gear but I have no idea how good/bad it is.

As for the sound - yes it was present for quite some time. Everyone told me they are supposed to sound like a tractor! I took it to the dealer to have them test ride it and they said it was all good and normal. Also took it to a guy who owned two steamers and is a part time mechanic - he thought it sounded fine. With so few around it is hard to tell! Truth is it only sounded horrible at certain speeds and certain rpm's - the faster I went the less sound it made so I obliged with higher speeds (wish I knew then what I know now!).
 
How difficult is it to swap the cases?

[JetdocX]

I don't know.  Never been that far into a motorbike.  And so far I'm glad.

Get the engine out of the beast and it's mobile.  Spend the $$ and get the parts cleaned.  Then have a trained eye inspect them for premature failure.

If you're unsure of your abilities, and or a clean place to work, I'm sure a local machine shop would love to blueprint that engine for you.  It's a damed rare bike!

So you're at a place where it's probably going to cost more than the bike is worth to repair it.  I've been there.  I love riding my bike.  So I'm twice into more than it's worth, fuck it.  I still get the, "What is that?" whereever I take it.  You either love it or hate it at this point.  Or both.  If you love it, or love it and hate it at the same time, spend the time effort and cash and straighten it out.  If you just hate it, then part it out.

[Jaythro]

I'd be thinking of a stainless pin thru the plastic cam chain guide and 2 drilled notches into the edges of the tunnel where the small alloy spuds have worn away to prevent it dropping thru into the lower case (or a hole right thru from the outside sealed with chemical metal or a grub screw)

I think It prudent to Stop where you are and evaluate really just how much work there is in flushing cleaning stripping down and rebuilding to the new cases How much chance of a fubarred screw or a misaligned dog for a gear etc

If it were me I'd be looking to clean everything really really well test the idea of the stainless pin and the notches and Personally I think It will work fine You could buy another guide and set it up in the second block to do your measurements to make sure you're happy! It would be just an Hour or two fettling around against at least a day to strip clean and start to rebuild the other? And teh block is scrap anyway so what have you to loose?

At the end of the day, provided that you can get the new guide to perform at 85% of it's design spec it will be fine

It broke up and the engine still ran a testament to triumph build quality!