front cam chain guide explody - help!

[mantramoto]

Thanks guys - Jaythro I think that is a great idea - saves me time and money and sounds reasonable. JetdocX I do really like the bike but my finances and skills will be the limiting factor. I don't want to part her out quite yet. I like the idea of using a pin or a screw to keep the guide in place from the top - seems it should work just fine that way. Also a thought, could a bead of aluminum be welded there to simulate the original slot(?).

If I go the route of a screw from the outside, what would be the best sort of metal to use? Do I need to be concerned with the heating of the two different metals and compatibility with respect to that? Thank you both.

[BruKen]

Thanks guys - Jaythro I think that is a great idea - saves me time and money and sounds reasonable. JetdocX I do really like the bike but my finances and skills will be the limiting factor. I don't want to part her out quite yet. I like the idea of using a pin or a screw to keep the guide in place from the top - seems it should work just fine that way. Also a thought, could a bead of aluminum be welded there to simulate the original slot(?).

If I go the route of a screw from the outside, what would be the best sort of metal to use? Do I need to be concerned with the heating of the two different metals and compatibility with respect to that? Thank you both.

It would be extremely difficult to weld that as oil would have penetrated the metal, and ali welding has to be fastidiously clean. I think the blue-ing suggestion is what I would have gone for. I'd hate to have to split the crank cases. Too much heartache, you can bet on that.

[Mustang]

JD has the answer
you got new cases that was the hard part .....................

swap the guts or get a shop to do it for you it will be worth it .

I fear you'll be sorry if you start drilling and pinning the case to hold the slider in

[mantramoto]

Thanks for the advice BruKen and Mustang - I agree that the best way will be what JD suggested however I am trying not to leave any stones unturned at this point. I am thinking that if I put a bandaid on it now I can always come back and do it right the next time having taken it apart once it will be easier the 2nd time.

Having said that - what do you think of these ideas from a friend that is not a Steamer owner?

.......

Mantramoto, it's hard for me to give accurate advice without knowing the motor and holding the parts in my hand, but here is my impression so far.

- The only "right" way to fix it is to use a new case.  Complexity of the swap is unknown.  With the motor out of the bike, maybe a shop or side-job mechanic could do it for you?  Perfect outcome is not assured even if you pay someone.  If you want to tackle it yourself, you really need to review the manual for the critical steps (setting bearing pre-loads, special tools, etc.).

- Anything but a new case is a hack.  Question is, how critical are those nubs and what kind of forces do they receive with an intact tensioner system?  Are they really necessary if your hydraulic tensioner is working?  Is the movement of the plastic slider similarly constrained with/without the nubs in place and the chain under tension?  Anyway, sounds like welding is out. I don't really like the idea of set-screws to immobilize the part, and it looks like access is a major challenge here anyway.

- What are the dimensions of the good nubs on the replacement case (length/width in mm)?

- Here are some other hacks to consider:

(a) Grind off the remaining nubs and dremel/file slots into the case (looks pretty thick in that area).  Use JB-Weld to epoxy some appropriately sized aluminum stock into your new slot.  I cringe at the idea of using JB-Weld internally, and if that metal came loose down the road it could spell trouble, but it is a hack after all. You'd have to go in with the precision of a dentist...

(b) Looks like the nubs are pretty short top to bottom?  Is there a nub on the corresponding part of the head that attaches there?  I assume not.  Is the head contact area wide enough to overlap the nubs?  How about if you drill the head and install some pins or set screws to point downward into the gap where the case nubs used to be?  You'd need a drill press for the precision, and the head would have to be beefy enough in that region to engage a good amount of pin.

(c) Bail on the nubs.  Drill a hole for a large bolt behind the plastic slider - something like an oil drain plug to provide good support for the plastic.  Shim the bolt to achieve proper positioning of the slider, loctite it in place to seal it, and call it a day.

[JetdocX]

He's calling anything other than the case swaps a hack.  I'd have to agree.  Sorry.

[Jaythro]

Yes I agree with you guys that Changing the cases is the perfect solution but we don't live in a perfect world.

I have learned that if something is functional and safe or can be made so then it is usually okay and I am willing to give it a shot

Half an hour playing with a drill and a stainless rod of about 3 or 4 mm in diameter surely is worth a go

Surely those little edges cannot compete with a rod carefully fitted and inserted I mean the guide doesn't do anything more than guide and protect the casing and shouldn't really be under enormous pressure besides the new guide will have flexibility

I would say if you can get a cube of alloy (or a block of hardwood) to neatly fit into the tunnel and carefully tap it into the tunnel to prevent distortion of the edges you should be able to centrepunch and drill down vertically and make 2 notches without wrecking anything and remove the block and finish the insides after

Hopefully my diagram clears up what I mean The left part is a top view and the right side is what I envisage for the inside edges of the tunnel it doesn't have to be a perfect circle it's as long as the pin is supported and doesn't protrude a dab of good silicone gasket will help cushion and retain it and stop it moving to much

Mustang and JetDocX I am not thumbing my nose at you guys merely offering a solution that I think is worth a try for a relative novice with restricted funds


.

[JetdocX]

Every time I take a shortcut, it ends up biting me in the ass later.  Just sayin'.  Although I do like the pin idea and might be tempted...

[mantramoto]

Thanks Jaythro - I like this idea. There is a hollow pin that is surrounded by plastic that usually fits into the slot on the new guide. I think I will put a smaller diameter pin through that hollow one and try something like you have outlined by perhaps using a dremel tool. My only concern may be that a hard metal like stainless may begin to erode the aluminum under lots of vibration??? Thank you very much for the diagram. I am still considering other options (other ideas are welcome) but this one seems like it should do the job. I will make a decision in the next few days as other ideas may get posted and give myself some time to chew on it. Thanks!

[Mustang]

Thanks Jaythro - I like this idea. There is a hollow pin that is surrounded by plastic that usually fits into the slot on the new guide. I think I will put a smaller diameter pin through that hollow one and try something like you have outlined by perhaps using a dremel tool. My only concern may be that a hard metal like stainless may begin to erode the aluminum under lots of vibration??? Thank you very much for the diagram. I am still considering other options (other ideas are welcome) but this one seems like it should do the job. I will make a decision in the next few days as other ideas may get posted and give myself some time to chew on it. Thanks!

as much as you are afraid to swap the cases , it is the only proper and viable solution , just sayin ,
I myself would never  even consider drilling the case and pinning it .....swap the cases , or pay someone to do it for you.

I was just looking at my spare case I have and there is no friggin way you are going to be able to drill a perfectly straight and square hole in that case with a dremel, hand drill or such  .

Let me know how it turns out , because I am betting that at the end of the day you will be swapping cases after all .

Here's something else to consider , where did all the aluminum from the case end up ?


That's right in the oil , pumped thru a running engine that has a lot of little nooks and crannys not to mention oil passages . that motor needs to be disassembled and flushed very very good . or you will be looking at this next  when it goes pop

bearings don't like shit in the oil
this is why you need to disassemble and clean and use the new cases .

[mantramoto]

Hmmm, that's compelling. But the only guy I know around here that could do it would be JetdocX. Need some extra cash for that new 800 JD?

[JetdocX]

Hmmm, that's compelling. But the only guy I know around here that could do it would be JetdocX. Need some extra cash for that new 800 JD?

Need cash.  No time, unfortunately. :(

[BruKen]

True of all of us. Just admit to being scared. No shame.  :lol:  :lol:

[JetdocX]

True of all of us. Just admit to being scared. No shame.  :lol:  :lol:

Well, there's that, too.  I might try it if it was my engine, but I'd probably look for a Daytona engine to drop in instead.

[BruKen]

Just voicing my own thoughts JD. Swapping internals about shouldn't be too big a heartache. Splitting the crank of a 15 year old bike that has had time to corrode itself together is going to be a bugger of a job. Brings back memories it does. None of them particularly dear.

[mantramoto]

No worries JD, I understand. I have been circling the engine for the past few days like it is a wounded wild animal - wondering if I dare to pull out the thorn from its paw!