Variation on the 12 minute Tune

[Bixxer Bob]

We know the Sagem-based Triumph FI systems are adaptive, in that they self-adjust when the O2 (Lambda) sensor indicates that the mix is outside limits.  What I didn't know until recently was that the ECU goes through a cycle of storing the trims (what Triumph call an adaptive loop) when the following conditions are met for between 10 and 30 seconds:  the bike is in neutral, the engine is idling, the coolant temp is between 80 and 96 Deg C and there is a minimum airbox temp of 21 Deg C.

When all those conditions are met, and you read the ECU with TuneECU, the O2 reading should be Zero although it can fluctuate slightly either way.  I understand that, if it's more than +4 or less than -4, a trim cycle is necessary.  To force a cycle, blip the throttle.  THAT'S IT. Then leave it for at least 30 seconds.  It may need several "blips" ie several cycles, to bring the reading within limits but it should go.  

If an O2 reading of -19.6 is seen, the Tune needs to be re-loaded and the above process repeated.

I also understand that the Long Term Fuel Trim should never be touched unless the ECU is changed; it's just for adapting the ECU to the bike.

This goes against a lot of what I've been doing as an enthusiastic amateur when playing with the TuneECU settings and it could be that this is what the "12 minute tune" is based on but has been corrupted as it's handed down, I don't know.  Oh, and I haven't tried it myself yet, but this is "from the horse's mouth" so to speak.  :D

If you fancy trying this, I'd recommend first making sure that you have no IACV tube air leaks, the baro tube from the airbox to the ECU is in good condition with no leaks including the white plastic elbow and grommet where it enters the airbox (the sensor is just that - sensitive, so don't blow down it, but sucking is ok) your valve clearances are good and the throttle bodies are balanced.

I've done countless hours of reading and re-reading any scrap of information I can get my hands on relating to the Sagem and have gradually developed some understanding of how it works, but it's very hard to separate the good from the    

This is possibly the most accurate piece of FI information I've discovered in 4 yrs of owning a Girly  :D

[iansoady]

Useful post - many thanks.

[metalguru]

Very interesting post that, like yourself I have read and re-read data untill confused at times.
I do aggree totally in the findings but would that not bring back the maladies of surging, rough idle, bad behavour in town etc, that we have worked on removing for so long?

[Bixxer Bob]

Very interesting post that, like yourself I have read and re-read data untill confused at times.
I do aggree totally in the findings but would that not bring back the maladies of surging, rough idle, bad behavour in town etc, that we have worked on removing for so long?

Quite possibly, but this is what the dealer was supposed to do to set the bike up when new and before delivering it to the customer.  I suspect many were never done.

What we need is for someone with the surging to do the service checks I listed, then run it to see if it's still rough and if it is, then try this.

[Chris Canning]

I'm always happier talking suspension/wheels brakes than fuel maps,but what always bothered me,Triumph dumped the Sagem system years ago what do that tell ya :(

[Sin_Tiger]

I'm always happier talking suspension/wheels brakes than fuel maps,but what always bothered me,Triumph dumped the Sagem system years ago what do that tell ya :(

It was expensive

[delecti]

hi,
I have put SA_riders mod update on T10773 with mods on fuel trim which has the bike running perfectly (although using more fuel but worth it) may be a waste? if for instance you warm up the engine after washing to dry the internals and it meets the specs 80-96 deg and 21 ambient and blip the throttle leave 30secs it may reset? :shock:
Mark

[Bixxer Bob]

It seems so. But I don't know whether it's one hit or a gradual thing. I suspect the latter because the info says it might need doing more  than once.  I disabled the trim adjustment in my map so whatever I put in stays there.  What we need is for someone to come along with the usual probs and try this (after doing the IACV tube checks etc first) instead of tweaking maps and see if it helps.

[Chris Canning]

This is about as far as my input goes on maps,and as I told Bob on a PM this is all I've ever done,that is particulary in the winter if it's stood for a while fire it up,let it warm up and on the way to the temp coming up given it 3/4 sessions of 5/6 blips on the throttle,done for no more particular reason than I do!!

The last map that I had put in while ago was crisp and aggressive and would have got on my tits on a 500 mile day but it's softened off by some margin since it was put in.