Won't start after a long journey

[metalguru]

Bought one of these a few years ago for my Adventurer, and it does what it says on the tin.......exactly. Never had any problems with it and for a bike that is only ridden in the nice weather, it has started every time, even if left for weeks without a trickle charge.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-POWER-MO ... 53eb272628 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-POWER-MOTOBATT-MBTX14AU-SEALED-MOTORCYCLE-BATTERY-/360427497000?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item53eb272628)


Or to be model specific...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MotoBatt-Quad ... 2316f01ffe (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MotoBatt-QuadFlex-MBTX12U-Battery-Triumph-Tiger-955i-EFI-T709EN-2001-2006-/150708690942?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2316f01ffe)

[Chris Canning]

A lot depends on access to the battery,if you have ever owned a BM 1100s you'll know what I mean,access is zero impossible to bump so you need a top line battery no matter what the cost hence the mighty PC680.

But the Tiger is a different animal,access is seconds,and I've bumped a Tiger in the past,it was high altitude that caused the problem but still the same result,hang on I'm rambling :oops: ,I'd be far more inclined to buy a cheap battery,look after it and have it on a battery tender and bin it after a couple of years,those Motobat are good but I'd bet good money a Dynavolt would give it a good run for it's money at half the price,well the fact is you could buy 2!! for the same.

My trade connection sell Varta,realtively cheap and cheerful,and certainley the best warranty of any battery supplier I've ever come across,non of this we'll check it and let you know, they just change e'm,although have only had 3/4 duds in 300 sales.

[Goodwinsplace]

I ended up buying one of these late last night:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150676813016? ... 1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150676813016?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)

So with the cable and battery purchased just waiting for delivery next week, I will stick the battery on the optimate for a day to give it a good start - then get into looking at the TuneECU.

Thanks again for all the help and advice, I will probably post again when I get to the above stage for some tips.

[Goodwinsplace]

Update: new battery installed, I conditioned it first using my optimiser.

Started it up and ran it for a few minutes, still with an engine light on. Turned it off.

About 15 minutes later I started it up again, no light. Rode it 10 minutes to go and wash all the salt off it from the Brighton trip. It rode fine for a few minutes then revved high, sticking around 3.5 - 4 rpm. Dropped down a few seconds later and then did it again after a few hundred meters.

Any ideas?? I'm guessing TuneECU isn't going to be much help as I don't have any light. I'm going to sort my laptop and hook it up anyway.

[iansoady]

All this high revving at idle sounds to me like the IAVC (stepper motor) is sticking. I don't know whether TuneECU allows this but Tuneboy certainly has a function of testing the IACV.

Another possibility is of course air leaks in the pipes from the IACV to the throttle bodies.

Remember that idle speed is controlled by air being bled by the IACV into the throttle bodies downstream of the butterflies hence is independent of cable stops etc.

[Goodwinsplace]

Just looking at the TuneECU website and it has something around IACV on the Tests description:

Triumph Sagem Double-click to "adjust IACV".
It is possible to reset these two last parameters by right-clicking the arrows active during the adjustment.

The documentation on the TuneECU website isn't the most descriptive (to me a n00b in this area) so not sure what the above test includes.

My bike is a 2003 so I'm guessing its a SAGEM ECU?
I have now installed my cable drivers and TuneECU running on a laptop so hopefully get it hooked upto my bike tomorrow afternoon to get some more details.
Does anyone have any tips on things I should test via TuneECU in any particular order?

How accessible is the IACV and pipes, to check. I have read some scary threads around springs, white plungers and IACV which I want to stay clear of. I'm happy to do some tests both computer and visual but if it's a large job happy to pay for it to be completed in a garage or by someone on here   or even change the whole part out if affordable.

Edit: Just to add the high revving is also when I rode today, I could feel the bike pulling when I was riding, only in second gear at the time but it was noticeable via the pull so I dipped the clutch to confirm. The revs raised up, I pulled over, tapped it into neutral blipped the throttle and it settled down again.

[metalguru]

All this high revving at idle sounds to me like the IAVC (stepper motor) is sticking. I don't know whether TuneECU allows this but Tuneboy certainly has a function of testing the IACV.

Another possibility is of course air leaks in the pipes from the IACV to the throttle bodies.

Remember that idle speed is controlled by air being bled by the IACV into the throttle bodies downstream of the butterflies hence is independent of cable stops etc.

+1 with Ian on this one as the IACV pipes are the first place to start before even starting on tuneECU. Remove the tank and all will be revealed, 6mm silicone vacuum hose is the good replacement as the convoluted pipes do break up. Model shops can supply the pipe, 1mtr will be more than enough.
The IACV can be acessed once the airbox is off and a clean of its working faces, with a squirt of silicone lube (not WD40) will bring it back to life, then reset it on pc. Seems like alot of work to remove the tank and airbox but it all comes off in big lumps, there are reams writtten about proceedures on here, just keep reading BEFORE attempting any work.

[Timbox2]

+2, Mine did this(High Revving), was the stepper motor itself on mine and after trying to repair it which resulted in the springs round the garage routine I coughed up for a newun :oops:

[Goodwinsplace]

I've already prepped myself around removing the tank and read the step by step on here. Just hope I can get into all the gaps.

Just a quick question:

The IACV can be acessed once the airbox is off and a clean of its working faces, with a squirt of silicone lube (not WD40) will bring it back to life, then reset it on pc.

Most of what you posted was clear, I just didn't get the above, squirt the IACV? Then reset it via TuneECU - would this be TPS and ISCV adjustments?

[Goodwinsplace]

Timbox - How much is a new one? I imagine this is going to be the case. As previously mentioned I have a trip planned for May and need to get this bike running properly before that.

Also is it a straight forward fit?

[Bixxer Bob]

I agree with the above, but given that you've had battery problems, I'd reload the tune first.  A corrupt tune will do all sorts of weird things and it's the easiest thing to do once you've got TuneECU up and running. In my case some years back the dealer hooked up a dud backup battery (ok, he probably didn't know it was dud or he wouldn't have done it, would he  :? ) while loading a new tune for me.  The dud battery dragged mine down and resulted in failing to blow in the new tune properly resulting in it not ticking over at all and running really rough on big throttle settings until 5k making it just about unrideable.  After the dealer failing to fix it a second time, I eventually fixed it myself by simply fitting a new battery and blowing in the correct tune.  Both Triumph, TuneECU and Tuneboy manuals warn about doing anything to the ECU unless the battery is fully charged because the write process to the ECU requires the input voltage to go high (11.7 volts if I remember rightly) and a poor battery can't do it.  It means the write process is interrupted as the voltage drops and the tune either fails to load or is saved but incomplete.  If it is incomplete, the ECU hangs when it gets to the corrupt line in the software then resets itself.  Parts under its control, like the IACV,  will stay in whatever position they were in when the reset occurred until the reset is complete.  If the IACV was wide open when the hang occurs, then it will stay wide open for however many seconds it takes for the reset until the ECU regains control.
 
As MG says there's loads about it on here, but just to repeat, download and save your tune before you do anything so you can always go back.  Make a note of all your trim readings, again so you can go back.  Then identify the tune in your ECU.  Download the correct one from TuneECU website, load it to TuneECU and blow it into your ECU.  Try the bike out.  If it's still crap, then start pulling it apart.

[Bixxer Bob]

Took so long to write that I got overtaken by other posts  :oops:

IACV was about £67 if I remember right.  Tim and I have both done the exploding IACV bit as you've no doubt read, but you don't necessarily need one, do you?  Do the cheap stuff first, like what I said above and what MG said about the pipes.

[Goodwinsplace]

Thanks for that, the support on this forum is great, much appreciated.

I want to give TuneECU a blast and backup the current setup.
I don't know the full history of the bike, it's fairly comprehensive on it's service history. The bike has a Triumph race can fitted, I assume this will impact on the mapping.

One quick question, would doing a 12 minute tune be worthwhile before connecting TuneECU? To be honest I didn't let the bike warm up much today, more of a start and ride due to where I keep the bike at a friends garage.
I've not tried to see if I get any raise in revs when it's left to idle.

[Bixxer Bob]

Doing the 12 min tune can't hurt if it'll run long enough without touching the throttle.

It's hard to pick what to do with so much advice, but not as hard as doing it for yourself when there's no advice to be had  :lol:

For what it's worth, I'm with Tim and MG about the AICV and pipes, just wanted to make it clear that other things can have a similar effect so shouldn't be discounted, especially when it comes to parting with cash.  Re-loading the Tune is daunting the first time, but Tim's nearby and he knows how so it can't hurt to get that out of the way first.  Nothing like starting from a known good base  

[Goodwinsplace]

As previously said, this forum is a bit of a comfort blanket as well as a scary reality check as well  :shock:

I have just double checked my documents, from what I can see my engine number is 179*** (wasn't sure about giving out full number), so have just looked at this tune on TuneECU website: 955cc Tiger From VIN # 124106 to VIN # 206546 / Sagem ECU MC1000

955cc Tiger to VIN 206546 with aftermarket exhaust (TORS) - Am I right?

So here is my thinking, get upto the bike tomorrow afternoon when my mate is around:
- 12 minute tune (hopefully without high revs).
- TuneECU, backup existing map
- TuneECU, update with the above tune (if confirmed on here correct)
- remove tank, check pipes
- remove tank, scratch head and worry I have just ruined a £3k bike, then look at how I go about changing stepper

Hopefully I won't get all the way to the end of the above points.