The only thing to make the Girly better...

[JTT]

Thing is, if you ride a single seat sport bike your chain tension will always be set up the same. If you buy a versatile bike like the tiger that can be on or off road, one up, two up, luggage, no luggage... e.t.c. Could take a heavy passenger, a light passenger...

Its quick and easy to adjust preload on the rear shocker, but can take longer to adjust the chain. Sometimes I'll be dropping my girlfriend, then riding home or riding to work straight after (this might not seem a problem, but I'm a big guy (23 stone, 6ft) and the mrs is a big girl too (5ft8, size 18-20). So it does make a difference.

Dan, I'm not sure I understand your chain adjusting issue....so are you adjusting the chain tension dependant on the weight on the bike?

[Chris Canning]

Thing is, if you ride a single seat sport bike your chain tension will always be set up the same. If you buy a versatile bike like the tiger that can be on or off road, one up, two up, luggage, no luggage... e.t.c. Could take a heavy passenger, a light passenger...

Its quick and easy to adjust preload on the rear shocker, but can take longer to adjust the chain. Sometimes I'll be dropping my girlfriend, then riding home or riding to work straight after (this might not seem a problem, but I'm a big guy (23 stone, 6ft) and the mrs is a big girl too (5ft8, size 18-20). So it does make a difference.

Dan, I'm not sure I understand your chain adjusting issue....so are you adjusting the chain tension dependant on the weight on the bike?

As there's no rising rate linkage thats the way it is,don't beleave me,sit on the bike lean down check the chain tension,now get a passenger on the back and check again,if you have set the chain as per the book for 1, with two people on it'll be like a banjo string,hence why Dan is having to run it slack.

But having now seen he's not even on setting 5 at his weight no wonder it's like it is  :roll:

[JTT]

As there's no rising rate linkage thats the way it is,don't beleave me,sit on the bike lean down check the chain tension,now get a passenger on the back and check again,if you have set the chain as per the book for 1, with two people on it'll be like a banjo string,hence why Dan is having to run it slack.

But having now seen he's not even on setting 5 at his weight no wonder it's like it is  :roll:

Yes, I recognize that the chain will get tighter as the suspension compresses, but regardless, you set chain tension based on maximum distance between countershaft, swingarm pivot and rear axle.  If you don't you risk damage to countershaft seals, chains and significantly effected suspension (chain will bind it at full compression).

The safest method to set chain tension, at least in my experience, is to remove the shock (or compress with a strap or someone sitting on it) and swing the rear wheel up (compressing suspension) until the countershaft, swingarm pivot and rear axle are in line....this is the longest distance it can get.  If you set a little slack at that point, you will never be too tight through the whole range of the suspension movement...and yes, on the Tiger that will look quite loose.

[Chris Canning]

Well yea!!,you can always tell when your chain tension is correct because everyman and his dog wants to tell you your chain looks slack!!.

The problem in Dans case he's a big guy with a large passenger which means he's using what must be close on max for the suspension travel,and hense has to set the tension for that synario,the problem being when he's only one up thats a lot of slack chain he's got.

The design of the bike doesn't help without a rising rate linkage,but that can ge got round with a quality shock that uses a lot less travel copeing with the weight.

I found my stock Triumph shock garbage with half the weight thats Dan has on his god knows how he rides it,and it's why I've had trouble getting my Ohlins how I wanted it because with two of us on and a fully loaded tank bag and topbox I didn't want a bike that was yawning forwards and backwards on the suspension I wanted a bike that was R1 and I have  :D ,it only starts to use up the suspension travel when I'm really pressing on.

[Ironhorse]

But Chris, what you might be forgetting is that in the right scenario, anyone of us can also compress the rear swing arm to its maximum travel and thus do serious damage if the chain is too tight. In fact, there is only one chain setting that is correct regardless of the load on the bike.

[Chris Canning]

But Chris, what you might be forgetting is that in the right scenario, anyone of us can also compress the rear swing arm to its maximum travel and thus do serious damage if the chain is too tight. In fact, there is only one chain setting that is correct regardless of the load on the bike.

The first bit your right,the second bit your wrong,this is a chain set for two up with gear on my Tiger,when we are on it the amount of slack is perfect,if I only rode 1 up I wouldn't have this amount slack even though I do and have ridden like this it's not ideal.



Just to show what happens when you do compress to the max,French railway crossings normally consist of either one or two set of tracks and large wooden sleepers in between,on being confronted by yet another crossing I just turn the wick up only to realise that the road drops away on the other side so we are airborne at around 110 this is what the caliper does to the can on full compression.

[JTT]

But Chris, what you might be forgetting is that in the right scenario, anyone of us can also compress the rear swing arm to its maximum travel and thus do serious damage if the chain is too tight. In fact, there is only one chain setting that is correct regardless of the load on the bike.

That's my point, thanks Ironhorse.  No matter, what kind of shock, how much or how little weight is on the bike, the swingarm must be able to travel it's full range.  Old MX motto, if your not using 100% of the travel at least once in a moto, your setup is off.

In fact I'm not even 100% convinced that rising rate has anything to do with chain tension as the only thing that effects it is the length of the swingarm and the relationship between the rear axle, swingarm pivot and countershaft.  Granted, modern linkage (rising rate) rear ends generally have shorter swingarms, which definitely effects chain tension.

[JTT]

This picture makes it a little clearer, I hope.  It's irrelevant where the shock is mounted or whether it is attached to linkage.

[Chris Canning]

But Chris, what you might be forgetting is that in the right scenario, anyone of us can also compress the rear swing arm to its maximum travel and thus do serious damage if the chain is too tight. In fact, there is only one chain setting that is correct regardless of the load on the bike.

That's my point, thanks Ironhorse.  No matter, what kind of shock, how much or how little weight is on the bike, the swingarm must be able to travel it's full range.  Old MX motto, if your not using 100% of the travel at least once in a moto, your setup is off.

In fact I'm not even 100% convinced that rising rate has anything to do with chain tension as the only thing that effects it is the length of the swingarm and the relationship between the rear axle, swingarm pivot and countershaft.  Granted, modern linkage (rising rate) rear ends generally have shorter swingarms, which definitely effects chain tension.

Why should the swingarm be able to travel it's full range,the bike isn't a motocrosser it's a road bike thats had plenty of PR and some folk beleave it,that don't make it right.

I'd been tinkering with my Ohlins for years,when I rode a Multistrada last year and realised 'Eureka' it is possible to have a big Trallie/adventure bike not yawning backwards and forwards like some boat in a storm I pressed on and got it sorted.

The 955 Tiger rear end is old hat,hence why you don't see it on modern bikes,go look at the new 800/1300, Triumph learned and moved on,I can think of one sports bike that doesn't have a linkage and when it was raced at world level took the entire brains of Ohlins to come up with a clever internal system so as the tyre wore the shock could cope with it,it cost a fortune as opposed to the pennies it costs for a linkage,and hence why in World Supersport Honda do most of the winning and Yamaha do when a sponsor is prepared to pick up a large bill from Ohlins.

[Chris Canning]

This picture makes it a little clearer, I hope.  It's irrelevant where the shock is mounted or whether it is attached to linkage.

KTM have put up the same argument for years as the last bastion of that design and they've dropped it,and now prepared to pay 5 millions dollars for Ryan Dungey to ride for e'm,it doesn't work because all the effort has to go into the shock because they are such great variables that you don't get with a linkage.

[boonekaf]

it's not an R1 either ....some of us actually use the tigers suspension for what it is , a dual sport

[JTT]

KTM have put up the same argument for years as the last bastion of that design and they've dropped it,and now prepared to pay 5 millions dollars for Ryan Dungey to ride for e'm,it doesn't work because all the effort has to go into the shock because they are such great variables that you don't get with a linkage.

100% agree.  PDS = Piece of Damn Shite.  Has big effect on suspension performance, but still has little to do with chain tension.

Why should the swingarm be able to travel it's full range

Really?  This would be akin to raising the forks in the yokes till the tire hit the frame at full compression wouldn't it? If we really only want to use the first 1/2 of the suspension travel, at least take the time to put a travel limiter in the shock so we don't damage things should you incidentally run through a sharp dip, pothole or heave at speed.

No need to jump triples to bottom suspension.

Maybe roads are different on your side of the pond, but around these parts I've been on smoother MX tracks :lol:.  I ensure you, even on asphalt, with a shock set perfectly, I will regularly use 70% of the travel and 100% at least a few times per year.

To each his own, but I'll stick with allowing my suspension to work all the way through it's mechanical limits.

[Chris Canning]

In the days before rising rate suspension or should I say linkages and suspension ie early motocossers because of the various tensions that the chain would have to go to it would have to be set at it's most slack(like Dan is having to do) the problem being that chains came off,that was combated with a chain tensioner common even up to the late eighties.

What folks are missing Triumph built the Tiger less than 10 years from when the company started,Triumph have a history of copying others it's a safe route,you could argue that even with the latest 1300 they did the same,modern suspension has moved on and so have Triumph.

[Chris Canning]

it's not an R1 either ....some of us actually use the tigers suspension for what it is , a dual sport

Yes your right,but your in a very small minority,and you still have the same problem as Dan,but his situation hi- lights the problem because of his extra weight.

[iansoady]

As there's no rising rate linkage thats the way it is,don't beleave me,sit on the bike lean down check the chain tension,now get a passenger on the back and check again,if you have set the chain as per the book for 1, with two people on it'll be like a banjo string,hence why Dan is having to run it slack.

But having now seen he's not even on setting 5 at his weight no wonder it's like it is  :roll:

Yes, I recognize that the chain will get tighter as the suspension compresses, but regardless, you set chain tension based on maximum distance between countershaft, swingarm pivot and rear axle.  If you don't you risk damage to countershaft seals, chains and significantly effected suspension (chain will bind it at full compression).

The safest method to set chain tension, at least in my experience, is to remove the shock (or compress with a strap or someone sitting on it) and swing the rear wheel up (compressing suspension) until the countershaft, swingarm pivot and rear axle are in line....this is the longest distance it can get.  If you set a little slack at that point, you will never be too tight through the whole range of the suspension movement...and yes, on the Tiger that will look quite loose.

Absolutely. I always respect what Chris says but in this instance rising rate or other suspension linkage has nothing whatever to do with how tight the chain gets - it is purely a function of suspension travel and the relative vertical loci of gearbox sprocket, rear wheel sprocket and swinging arm spindle. Maximum tension (ie minimum slack) is when all 3 are in a straight line.