Winterising

[Bixxer Bob]

Ok, here's deliberately stirring up some discussion.

I've been reading up on winterising bikes.  I don't usually do anything special to mine because they get used all year round, but I have some Italian fillies to look after now.  The first one has a plastic tank, but also has a good passage in the hand book regarding the fuel system.  In short, it says drain the fuel system. Period.  I plan to treat all the bikes with plastic tanks this way unless the handbook says different.

So far though, there have been no specific instructions for metal tanks in any of the handbooks I've read so I set about reading internet forums, keeping in mind that a lot is just best guess by the author.  Finding reliable advice is a bit trickier.  Anyway, most of them advise fill to the brim with fuel / fuel stabiliser mix.  Reason: to prevent condensation leading to rust and water in the fuel.

Despite all this,  I'm still minded to drain the tanks on all the bikes that will be in long term storage ie more than just a few months.  This would include sealing the tank vent so repeated expansion and contraction of the air inside can't then draw more moisture in.

Anyone got experience of this?

[Chris Canning]

My XT gets used all the time as and when,the other 3 stand during the winter priority number 1,they always have the oil changed before the winter sets in,never let e'm stand with used oil,the modern day crap thats called unleaded fuel will stand for around 6 weeks after that it goes off like a loaf of bread,emptying the tanks ain't the problem,you need to empty the float bowels because the jets gum up,blocked up jets are the biggest source of hassle I see from bikes standing.

I'd be inclinded to keep a minimum amount of fuel in with a stabiliser added,a lot depends on were the bikes are keeped,and I know it's frowned on,but I've never let mine stand for more than 6/8 weeks without running them up,the heat from the motor takes any damp out of the rest of the bike and thats in a garage with fitted carpet and central heating,but I've no doubt others will disagree.

[iansoady]

I've no doubt others will disagree.

But of course.....

I've never personally had trouble with petrol "going off" despite leaving bikes for up to 6 months in my unheated, concrete floored, draughty garage.... The Velo always started first kick, as does the A10. I'm sure some people have had trouble with petrol, just that I haven't.

And as to running the engine, IMO unless you get it good and warm (ie up to real running temperature - a 15 mile run or so) all you're doing is causing condensation to contaminate your nice new oil.

It is probably worth considering keeping the weight off the tyres (on centre stand rather than prop) and perhaps over-inflating them.

Remove batteries and give monthly top-up charge.

[Sin_Tiger]

Many years ago, a college mate who had several bikes used to drain the ones he want going to use and then blast the tank with a CO2 extinguisher, thrown out by the college a were at, then pop the cap on, never saw any rust in the spring, but not everybody has source of inner gas lying around.

[JTT]

but not everybody has source of inner gas lying around.

A good feed of chilli usually does it for me 

I think your on the right track with the plastic tanks for sure.  As for the steel, I've usually brimmed them, making sure to drain the carbs well (if carb'ed).  The only reason I would completely empty would be if I was worried about leaks from questionable fuel taps, etc.  In that case you might pour in a couple of cups of WD40 or similar, slosh it around and leave it that way.

[NKL]

Waste of time filling the tank with unleaded fuel, it's utter shit, it is hygroscopic and probably already contains water when you fill up. A friend of mine works at a Honda dealership and they have had bikes in that have been stored with fuel in them for long periods and the tank and fuel pump have rusted away.
If I was laying up a bike with a steel tank  for more that 4 months I would drain all the fuel out and put some oil in and swill it around.
But my KTM has plastic tanks so I will just leave it.

[Bixxer Bob]

This is more along the lines I was thinking because even if you fill with fuel, any water will gather at the bottom of the tank and rot the seams.  I just wondered how much of the folk lore of rotting tanks was down to condensation although it gets most of the blame (very little I suspect) and how much is blocked filler drains / careless fill-ups when it's raining etc allowing water in that then lies at the bottom of the tank slowly rotting away until a problem occurs. 

My reasoning behind this is my Blackbird has been stored sometimes for 3 months with no prep, just cleaned and put away, she's nearly 14 yrs old and has zero rust in the tank.

My other suspicion, that I've not argued through with myself yet, let alone anyone else, is that - just because you get condensation on a cold tank in warm(er) garage - doesn't mean there's condensation inside as well.  To get condensation inside, you'd need space in the tank with air that contained moisture, warm(er) fuel and a cold(er) garage.  I suppose there's an outside chance that this could happen if it was a mild day then a sudden temp drop at night but I'm not convinced. 

I used to do dew-point calculations in the old days when I was looking after radars, time to get my old books out I think

[Chris Canning]

I've never expended too much thought on rotting tanks mine have always seemed pretty good.,but with two mates who make a steady living out of folks who lets their bikes stand,the real killer is unleaded going off in carbs,ultra sonic cleaning is the ideal way,but good old fashioned elbow grease and an air line will do.

Re the unleaded going off,you can smell it,the fact that you can still get a bike to start and run on the gunge thats been in your tank for six months isn't the point,it'll run crap in comparison to fresh stuff from the fuel station,hence why I keep all of e'm pretty low(store it for the lawn mower) and then straight round to the pump for some prestine fuel.

[NKL]

The problem with water in fuel is only going to get worse the more ethenol they add.

[Sin_Tiger]

I meant inert of course  but nice catch JTT

[kraftykarper]

A timely conversation, as temperatures are due to drop to 0 tonight.

I've had modern bikes for around 20 years, and my winter strategy has been to put the bike on the centre stand in the garage, so that no wheel touches the concrete. Top up the tank with hi octane unleaded, and more recently I connect up the Optimate 4 to the battery once a fortnight, for a few days. Optimate say there ok to leave on permanently, but the scrooge in me thinks of the electricity bill!

Then if I dont get out on it in 4 weeks I will start it up, and let it tick over till the cooling fan cuts in, and its reached normal operating temperature for a couple of minutes. I don;t think doing this once a month causes any problems. If you can get out on the bike so much the better, but if its icy its no way for me.

If I do get out on it, wash it down when I get back, with the pressure washer on low pressure, and watching those brakes and bearings. Then leave ticking over till dry, put it back in the garage, and spray with Silkolene Pro Prep, or Putoline maintenance spray. I;ve never used ACF50 but some say its the best.

I,ve never had any problems looking after bikes like this. But some people reckon i am a bit OCD !!! 

[metalguru]

In our glorious country we don't so much have a climate as just weather, most of it damp!
In my experience over the years, unless one has a temp stable and dry environment to over-Winter then temperature/humidity changes seem to cause the greatest problem.

My proceedure differs between bikes off the road for Winter and bikes off the road for longer.
The ones off the road for longer get cleaned and dried thoroughly, the brakes lubed with rubber and copperslip grease.
Then I spray inside the tank and all the extremeties including inside the exhaust system with a copious helping of Duck Oil with an air powered atomiser, a tool similar to those used for coating the inside of car body panels. Have recently used ACF50 and will judge the results. In the past have been known to place the bike inside a Bale bag and suck the air out, seal the bag and cover in blankets for insulation.

For shorter periods ie 2-3 months, then a coating of Duck Oil/ACF50, the fuel drained, brakes serviced after lay-up as the fluid change will dispel any water inclusion and covered in a polythene sheet and a layer of blankets.

IMO the most important point to consider is the temp/humidity changes which cause the condensation on the outside and inside of all metal surfaces, especially when a sudden change takes place ie opening a door to the outside. If this change can be slowed or omitted then the less chance condensation has in forming, so insulation is quite high on my agenda.

As for the modern fuel, in modern bikes this should be drained as already stated here that it goes off in no time.
A comparison has been made about older bikes and lawn mowers still going with gone off fuel.
This can be explained as to why this occurs is simply down to compression ratios. Most modern bikes are running CRs in the region of 11-12:1 which was mainly used in racing engines of the distant past but quite the norm now.
Older engines have a CR of at least half and mowers even less. 1970's Hondas were about 8-9:1CR.
I have been re-building a 1950s Perkins outboard motor and the CR worked out to about 6:1!! No wonder they were no good when they were new, but would run on virtually any thing that would burn, or at least ignite.

[chairhead]

My winter strategy is to put some M+S marked tyres on,pack the snow chains and ride to Bavaria and Austria to find snow covered hills,breathtaking vistas,great tasting German dark beers and like minded folk

[Chad]

My winter strategy is to put some M+S marked tyres on,pack the snow chains and ride to Bavaria and Austria to find snow covered hills,breathtaking vistas,great tasting German dark beers and like minded folk

and who could possibly argue with that

ive never had this issue with winterising , my bikes have never sat for more than a couple of weeks at any point in the year.

and then they get my full on OCD treatment

[Bixxer Bob]

Like I've said already, I don't do anything special to my bikes as I tend to ride them then wash them all winter, but this lady is paying for my work so I owe it to her to do the best I can for her. 

I think, on balance, I'm going to drain everything that's stored long term.  Steel tanks will get a little oil sloshed around inside after draining and will get a rinse out with petrol before filling when brought into use again.  I'll check them every couple of months to make sure nothing is going amiss.  That should do it I think.