1996 Tiger - Running fine to not running - confused!

[richierich75]

Hi all,

Hope someone can help, because I'm just not sure what is wrong.

I've got a 1996 Tiger 900. Its done 17.5K, with a full Triumph service history. As a bit of history it has been stored for a few years, but done properly, with this fuel system drained (tank drained, carbs drained from float bowls), battery removed, air intake covered up, exhausts covered up, fresh oil, a dash of oil in each cylinder, protective grease to protect the finishes etc, you get
the picture.

I recently took the bike out of storage, cleaned the bike up, removed the plugs and turned the engine over by hand, checked it over, put fresh fuel in the tank, primed the carbs, new battery and it went first press of the button with a dash of choke, and settle down into a nice health fast tick over (1500rpm). As she warmed up, reduced the choke to hold the revs, and within a few minutes was happily idling with no choke.

As an aside I replaced the hydraulic fluid (clutch and brakes), fitted new brake pads all round. Took the bike for a test ride to check it all out and was absolutely spot on. So very happy indeed! Just ready for MOT.

About a week later tried to start her up and well its bag of spanners for some reason. The symptoms are it will only idle with at least half choke, at which point its idling 1500-2000RPM, any less choke and it just stalls. Touch the throttle, the engine just stalls. It will only run if you apply nearly full choke, so its revving at 3000rpm, open the throttle full, and then shut the choke off, at which point it starts hunting at 3500RPM, then revs fairly cleanly heading to the red line. To keep it running on the throttle (with no choke) you have to have more than 3000RPM, and at least 2/3 to full open, anything less it hunts varying RPM by about 1000, and then just stalls. It sounds a bit like its running on two cylinders possibly between idle and 3000RPM, but as I say its hunting. On the choke it can by carefully adjusting obtain a steady 1500 RPM, but its not that sweet. The exhaust is smokey, on the garage wall there is lot of soot and carbon dust coming out of the exhaust, which worries me, all because its running so richly.

Yesterday I check over the ignition system. The coils are made by PVL.

No1 Coil Low Tension 0.07Ω High Tension 13.38KΩ
No2 Coil Low Tension 0.07Ω High Tension 13.21KΩ
No3 Coil Low Tension 0.07Ω High Tension 13.15KΩ

Which seem quite reasonable.

The spark on each plug wasn't yellow and quite bright. Only observation was No 1 cylinder plug looked a light white and hence lean, the No 2 and No 3 where more black.

I fitted an in-line fuel filter (too late now), but as a preventative measure. I flushed the carbs with a 50/50 mix of petrol and redex, then flushed the carbs with petrol. Had a go at starting it up and well no different, other than when initially from cold on choke, as you'd normally expect), the exhaust was clean. It was only as a engine temp rose, the choke was reduced, and well it started to go sooty again, particularly from the right exhaust.

So today going remove the carbs and air box, and then strip / clean the carbs over the coming week or two.

Having looked at the cost of parts, while its removed I'm going to replace the carb to cylinder head rubbers (£6 each from World of Triumph), and fit a new airfilter - any thoughts here, a genuine Triumph one or replace the filter in the box with a K&N element?

Has anyone got any ideas? How can it go from running perfectly to being such a dog???

Never had this on any other bike I've owned from 125 Hondas to 500 Kawasaki's and a Trident Sprint Sports.

Any help will be gratefully received  :-)

[richierich75]

Just looking through the threads on here, and does this stuff really work?

http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,11967.0.html

http://www.performancemotorcare.com/acatalog/Profi_Fuel_Max___Fuel_system___carburetor_cleaner.html

I could save me a lot of hassle!

[London_Phil]

Mine is the same. I had Mikunis, and then fitted Kehins for this issue. Fitted TT600 coil packs, and tried a spare ECU and ignitor and all made no difference.
Cure easy, Take her for a good run, and it will sort itself out. It would appear that the jets become clogged with dried fuel muck of some kind, and I have found this happens every time I use my Tigger. Always settles after 10 miles or so. I am sure its not an actual fault, just a quirk, as it were.
I recall Mustang saying its no issue running with the choke out enough to keep from stalling, and easing it off as you go.

[Mustang]

typical symptoms of clogged pilot circuit.

or water in the fuel tank will do it

and I've seen the same issues happen from aluminum oxidation in the petcock causing it to clog and starve the engine for fuel, 

1. try the magic elixir, if its just plugged pilots it will sort it

2.if that doesnt cure it ....check the other two things above

3. if thats not it  go back to original plan and manually clean the pilot circuit

oh and one last thing ...........on tanks that have sat empty for a long time they sometimes get a white chalky plastic residue from the plastic that upon first fill up  will clog all the filters and jets . ask me how I know

[ssevy]

Not a Steamer owner (yet, but soon I hope), but we classic triple owners have a terrible time with our carbs, made worse because we have metal fuel tanks which also rust. Removing and cleaning the carbs became a ritual every spring when taking my Legend out of storage until I sealed the tank with Caswell (I know, not an issue with plastic tanks). The seafoam worked pretty well for me as a solvent, (I swear it is just laquer thinner in a fancier can if my nose can be trusted), but I found that Star Tron really works for keeping the fuel system spotless and the fuel from breaking down. Since I began using that for storage and every other tank, I have not had to touch my carbs. Three years now, and it always starts right up in the spring after having sat for 4 months. I am not sure if Star Tron will unclog a system that is already clogged, as I used it as a treatment after having manually cleaned my carbs, but it does prevent clean systems from getting nasty, and seems to prevent the ethanol mix from going bad in the first place.

[threepot]

Got to be worth trying an additive..Profi?? then a good blast? I'm fitting fuel filters in both my bikes now.I fired up my Super3 for the first time in 6 months. Its been kind of neglected since I bought my Steamer. Was keeping the bikes in ..well you could call it a 'cold tropical garage'! Could grow mushrooms in it no prob!. Damp..condensation,you name it. Using a friends garage now,and decided to fire up the S3 today. Fresh fuel,fresh battery..bike started within a few seconds! I was amazed But,it was backfiring/missing Anyway,we let her warm up thinking it would get better,but no. Checked coil leads,firing order etc..no diff. Then just by chance when the middle plug lead was off,my friend shone a torch down,only to discover the whole plug hole was filled with water! Soaked it up with tissue paper,Bike runs nice now. Not taken it out yet. I did drain carbs when I parked it up mind,but that can be a bad thing..o rings can dry out. Given it a dose of Profi now,will leave that do do its work. Think the best thing is to put an additive in fuel when storing??

[97tiger885]

About a week later tried to start her up and well its bag of spanners for some reason. The symptoms are it will only idle with at least half choke, at which point its idling 1500-2000RPM, any less choke and it just stalls. Touch the throttle, the engine just stalls. It will only run if you apply nearly full choke, so its revving at 3000rpm, open the throttle full, and then shut the choke off, at which point it starts hunting at 3500RPM, then revs fairly cleanly heading to the red line. To keep it running on the throttle (with no choke) you have to have more than 3000RPM, and at least 2/3 to full open, anything less it hunts varying RPM by about 1000, and then just stalls. It sounds a bit like its running on two cylinders possibly between idle and 3000RPM, but as I say its hunting. On the choke it can by carefully adjusting obtain a steady 1500 RPM, but its not that sweet. The exhaust is smokey, on the garage wall there is lot of soot and carbon dust coming out of the exhaust, which lworries me, all because its running so richly.
L

Has anyone got any ideas? How can it go from running perfectly to being such a dog

I had similar issues a few months back after letting my 97 set for 2 weeks.  Took Mustang's advice that it was probably the pilot circuit. Put SeaFoam in.  Idled it about 20 minutes before it improved to where I could put it in gear and barely run.   Kept idling and it improved greatly.  Put in second dose with next tank of gas.  Stuttered once or twice on start up a few times but ran.   Very ugly smoke while idling.  Runs great now.  I would start with a carb cleaner.

[richierich75]

Thanks for all the thoughts.

I did some reading up on petrol, and with the current 10% ethanol content, I think this is causing the problems, because it can absorb moisture and also breaks down, which is no good when you only use a bike infrequently.

I've bought some Profi Carb Cleaner, a fresh gallon of unleaded, and will have a try tomorrow. I'm hoping the Profi will do its work.

Will post back, hopefully with good news . . . .

[recroy]

HI, I had the exact same problem. I pulled the carbs and removed the pilot jets. squirted some carb cleaner in them and let them soak for a few minutes and then hit them with compressed air. Totally solved the problem. Hope this helps. Cheers.

[John Stenhouse]

I did some reading up on petrol, and with the current 10% ethanol content,

you didn't read far enough then because we DON'T have 10% ethanol in UK fuel

[tigermack94]

hi all i haven't been on here for the last year or two,but just got my tiger running and hopefully this will be of some help,long story short as they say, bike was stood in a garage with seized engine for best part of 5 years the fuel tank was half full and the carbs were left full of fuel so when it came to running her up with the new engine and the old carbs i got some profi fuel max put one gallon of fuel in the now empty tank and added 50ml of fuel max filled the carbs with the fuel mix and spun her over she fired up first time but would not tick over so left her overnight and tried again next morning she fired up and ran smooth when she had warmed up i took her up the private road outside home and she pulled like a train with no problems so its worth trying profi fuel max all i did to my carbs was clean the dust out of the bowls,hope this helps,MOT's this saterday

[Bixxer Bob]

I did some reading up on petrol, and with the current 10% ethanol content,

you didn't read far enough then because we DON'T have 10% ethanol in UK fuel

Yet.......

[John Stenhouse]

Don't fuss, girlies run fine on E10, at least mine did all the way to Essen in the rain 

[Bixxer Bob]

I think the most important word there John is "RUN".  It's not the running on these fuels that causes the problems