Cold start issue getting worse

[metalguru]

As per my last post,
What are ALL the sensor voltages please?

[Bixxer Bob]

I've also read through this again and I'm getting the feeling that the latest problem is corrupt trims.  Use TuneECU to blow in the map again, but do it this way:

Read the map from the ECU. If you can't that's a good sign - means map is corrupt.

Load correct map from TECU archives.

Blow into ECU.

Turn ign off, wait for the relay to click (5 secs or so), turn back on, re-establish TECU connection.

This is the bit I can do with TUNEBOY but not sure if TECU does it; reset the trims.

Turn ign off, click, on again.

Start the bike.

[benebob]

Metal
Here are the readings I got this afternoon.  Started up just fine and took an idle, pops and farts but kept running.
Pulse
1.962 1.885 1.946
Coil
1.490 1.471 1.503

tps
3.4  .55
o2
.075  -2
Temp
34c  2.33v .94v
Fuel trim
4.3%
Idle
1240  4
0%  4.8
Baro
1006

Let the bike warm up fully then ran down the street.  ran fine save the poops and farts.  came to stop sign 50 yards from my garage and it stalled, took about 30 seconds of cranking (5 seconds a piece) then it finally started, ran fine again around the block without stalling but still popped and farted.

Bixxer, what do you mean by blow into the ecu?  Do you mean blow into the breather tube thingie?   Also what do you mean by reset trims?

[Bixxer Bob]

Blow = load a new tune to your ECU

I've just checked, TECU doesn't do trim reset like Tuneboy.

You can reset them doing this though:

Use Tune ECU to make sure the following conditions are met;  the bike is in neutral, the engine is idling, the coolant temp is between 80 and 96 Deg C and there is a minimum airbox temp of 21 Deg C.

Blip the throttle to more than 3000rpm

Let it settle, wait 30 secs and blip again.  Keep doing this until it sorts itself out.  Watch the O2 sensor reading while you do this, 0.46v is midrange, it'll swing between 0 and 0.9v

I'm not sure if this still works if the map has been modified to lock out the O2 sensor.  It should, but you never know....

[metalguru]

Definitely concur with BB on this, it is easier to start from a level playing field as we can then start the process of elimination.

The TPS looks out of range but could be peculiar to your bike.
When resetting the TPS and any further adjustments must be made with the engine hot. The THROTTLE on the diagnostics page will prove when the voltage stabilises.
When you have installed the std map for your bike, and reset the TPS, if you bring up the TESTS on TuneEcu and on the left hand side there are a series of buttons. Double click on Idle Speed Control, you will hear a slight noise from under the tank, this is normal and will clean out the IACV. Start the engine and run until TPS lamp glows green and the two arrows closeby will illuminate showing the O sensor is on line.

Idle fuel trim set to 0:0.
Long term fuel trim is like a main jet, adjust till even running is found, should be between 3 and 4:5 all bikes are different and a rule of thumb are within a certain region.
IACV is adjusted by blipping the throttle and adjusting IACV either up or down until the revs drop evenly down to idle and not below or hover above.
By this time you will have found a very accurate voltmeter too.
It would be better to know the Throttle Bodies are accurately balanced too, but this is a good start and progress.

If you are uncertain of any adjustments with TECU please consult the text on the website.

[benebob]

Thanks will try to get to it tonight depending on the weather.  Downloaded the 172 map again last night to make sure the last one wasn't the issue.  Is there a proceedure to reset the TPS with tune ecu.  I've read different threads with totally different proceedures.

[metalguru]

The one to read is for the Sagem ecu.

[benebob]

Bike has been running for 30 minutes and tps light has not come on, still reading notta.  Did Triumph call Lucas for theirte, computer?  Heck even my TVR seems to have a more advanced  ECU system (at least quicker).   I'll give it another 10 minutes then shut it off.

Update, 50 minutes and nothing. 

At an hour with no green light I blipped the throttle, it went to 3% at 4k.  Could that be the problem, if so then shouldn't it throw a code and wouldn't it run poorer then the higher the rpm?  It seems to be the opposite.  Functions normally with the bike off.  Full throttle goes to 77%.

[metalguru]

50 mins run time with no stalling   

I presume the readings are for the TPS? That will be correct.
Sometime the TPS lamp will not glow, it seems a glitch in the software, sometimes by switching from Diags to tests and back again will do it.

[Chris Canning]

It's a lot of work when you don't even know if it's a dud plug!!

[benebob]

50 mins run time with no stalling   

I presume the readings are for the TPS? That will be correct.
Sometime the TPS lamp will not glow, it seems a glitch in the software, sometimes by switching from Diags to tests and back again will do it.

Once it takes an idle it doesn't stall (and never did), only stalled coming off load or randomly at speed am I seeing it stall.  Still seems to be running quite poorly and riding it around the block confirmed that so nothing has been resolved by replacing the map and reseting the tps except that the map is new and the tps might have reset though the light never came on.

[metalguru]

As you can appreciate long distance diagnostics can be a bit tricky at best and long drawn out with 'poorly' running.

Connect up to the bike again with the engine at running temp, make sure the pc is connected to its power supply.
Triumph to comply with emissions set up very lean and can cause problems.
On the tests screen in the lower left hand corner you will find Long Term Fuel Trim (LTFT).
Memorise the present number you see.
Double click on the arrows and they will darken enabling you to adjust this value.
Click on the upper arrow and see what happens to the engine note, as you increase this value it is like making the main jet larger, if the engine falters like being on choke it is too rich.
If you lower the value it will falter and eventually stall.
Somewhere in the middle is ideal.

When you have this set right, may take 30mins to do, just above this adjustment is the Idle Air Control Valve. (IACV).
Darken the adjusters as before.
Blip the throttle to about 3-4k revs and see how it falls.
The higher the minus number eg, -8 going to -15 will bring the revs down quickly to below idle then recover back to target.
The lower the minus number eg -8 going to -4 will bring the idle down slower and if too low number the revs will hover above target idle.
Optimum will be for the revs to fall smoothly not abruptly to target, but not below and then back up to target.
Can be looking at 30 mins to get this correct.
Idle fuel trim needs to be at 0:0 at this stage.

If it is still 'poorly' after this, further investigations will need removal of the tank. (In the stickies).
As you have already said the engineer was highly accredited who carried out the previous work but by past experience has showed, because of the low mileage some maintenance works are not carried out.

[Bixxer Bob]

It's a lot of work when you don't even know if it's a dud plug!!

I wish that was all mine was Chris, it's running like a pig except on big handfuls of throttle.  I've done all the usual tricks and still not got it sorted. I'm not looking wider for things that might be wrong.

[Chris Canning]

It's a lot of work when you don't even know if it's a dud plug!!

I wish that was all mine was Chris, it's running like a pig except on big handfuls of throttle.  I've done all the usual tricks and still not got it sorted. I'm not looking wider for things that might be wrong.

What I'm getting at this guy doesn't know, I'll bet good money those plugs have been in from day 1,he doesn't know if it's ever been stripped and if it has,has it been put back together alright,you climb the ladder from the bottom wrung not half way up,you know as well as I do it could be a million and one things,but just like 2 years ago when my XT starting playing up with 1500 miles on the clock from brandnew the problem a dud plug  ,do the basics first and then the complicated stuff not the other way round but hey ho.

[Mustang]

What I'm getting at this guy doesn't know, I'll bet good money those plugs have been in from day 1,he doesn't know if it's ever been stripped and if it has,has it been put back together alright,you climb the ladder from the bottom wrung not half way up,you know as well as I do it could be a million and one things,but just like 2 years ago when my XT starting playing up with 1500 miles on the clock from brandnew the problem a dud plug  ,do the basics first and then the complicated stuff not the other way round but hey ho.