pruned from steamers or /what size is my tool ?

[iansoady]

Just ordered some of these: http://www.onlyqualitytools.com/catalog/Vessel/Double-Ended_Power_Bits.html (http://www.onlyqualitytools.com/catalog/Vessel/Double-Ended_Power_Bits.html) which are a lot cheaper than the full screwdrivers. They are said to be dual JIS / Phillips so assume they are the former as they will also fit the latter according to the Vessel website.

That tool place is unusual in charging low carriage so have bookmarked it for the future. We'll see what the bits are like when they arrive......

These arrived this morning after ordering them yesterday and I'm very pleased. I've tried them on a couple of Honda screws and they fit beautifully.

Although why they invented another "standard" when Phillips already existed and is an ISO standard is another question entirely.

[Mustang]

the #1 reason fasteners get the type of drive head they do is for ease of assembly on the production lines ,
think air driven tools ,and ease of one handed fastening 
you sometimes only have moments to fasten something at your work station before the product moves on down the line  .....................

notice in the video that the car only stops moving during break time .

http://youtu.be/GHtr9sq7ZbA

[Sin_Tiger]

True but you have to remember that they bought in the brake system (and clutch hydraulics) and electrics from Japanese manufactures. Arguably a shrewd decision that gave them a great proven basis for concentrating on what they knew they could do well themselves. At that time they probably didn't have the sort of clout they have now to dictate detailed design specs without a severe cost penalty

[Mustang]

absolutely 

even in the dodge video you can see pre assembled parts or assemblies going on that are usually sourced already assembled

[iansoady]

There have just been a couple of programmes on BBC about the MINI plant in Cowley. Apart from the moronic presenters, it was very interesting and showed just how much of a modern car is just "press and click". May be available to our colonial friends on iplayer or something? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p033zflq

I was particularly interested as I designed the paint control system for the Rover 800 at that plant (dates me somewhat) as well as the build control system for the Rover 200 at Longbridge. Much has changed but much remains the same.

[Sin_Tiger]

  What hasn't remained the same is the personal engagement and I believe genuine passion for what the people at the Hinksey factory do. Having toured on an open day and sat around with quite a few later over a beer and burger, I was impressed with what Mr Bloor and his team have done. I'm not saying the bikes are the greatest thing on the planet blindly but having spent a lot of time going around factories worldwide, I've never experienced such an atmosphere 

I can also see me getting into trouble for dragging things off course again 

[JoeDirt]

But the current Triumph has nothing in common with the Meriden company other than the name. All the bikes have been designed from the ground up in the last 20 years or so.

My point exactly... bikes... not fasteners. All companies... new and old.

~JoeDirt

I can also see me getting into trouble for dragging things off course again 

How did I get on this steamer thread... 

[Mustang]

 

[Nick Calne]

I think design detail matters and contributes a lot to the aesthetics / quality of a product.  My own experience of controlling design projects is that weaker designers tend to be inconsistent and trash about speccing this and that.  You have to control what happens.  Maybe triumph just weren't that good / thorough in the early days?  Certainly there are some other tell tale clues that their design skills were ...um emerging on the steamer.  Looking at the new xcx the fasteners look more consistent.  They mostly seem to be hex head and stainless.

I also think that if you are designing an 'adventure bike' some element of making it easier to fix in the field with limited tools should be on your agenda.  In such a setting would you ever choose a screwdriver over a set of allen keys?

[nickjtc]

I also think that if you are designing an 'adventure bike' some element of making it easier to fix in the field with limited tools should be on your agenda.  In such a setting would you ever choose a screwdriver over a set of allen keys?

Ah yes, but how many are used 'in the field'..............??

[Nick Calne]

If the answer is more than none, then it matters.

[nickjtc]

If the answer is more than none, then it matters.

Yes indeed.

How the people managed who rode old British bikes on adventure trips, the bikes requiring at least two different sets of spanners, is amazing. Yes, I know, the bikes never broke down  :icon_wink: :icon_wink:

[iansoady]

Real old British bikes just needed one set. I think you're referring to those new-fangled Triumphs and Nortons that mixed BSF/W and UNF/C......

[nickjtc]

I think you're referring to those new-fangled Triumphs and Nortons that mixed BSF/W and UNF/C......

Yes. I was thinking about the '67 N15CS mongrel and '71 Commando I once had. Needless to say they never made any 'adventure' trips. The only adventures were from the garage/carport/shed to the driveway and back. 

[Nick Calne]

What? There were bikes with a mixture of fastener systems? No wonder the British bike industry was doomed.

Not so much a further nail in the coffin of a dying industry, more a bsf/w threaded bolt with a rounded off philips head!