Another ECU question

[t4tiger]

I am currently trying to sort out low end rough running issues. I have read lots and lots on tuneecu and am now trying experimenting with different maps.  Whilst the downloads seem to work fine, some values stay the same, specifically ift, ltft and iacv.  I thought they would be different for each map and would come as part of any new map.  Is this wrong? Thanks

[Timbox2]

I was waiting for BB to chime in on this as Im still not 100% on how it works but here is my undertanding. The 3 Items you talk about, IFT, LTFT and IACV are all "Adaptive". Now, I must admit I thought that if you blew a map in it reset them all, but maybe you have to reset them by either doing the 12 min job, or maybe by doing a TPS reset, this is what Im not sure about. I have a memory of a suggestion that you do the "12 Minute Tune" after blowing a new map in to reset the Trims but again Im not sure. Not sure anybody, including Triumph, ever really understood what was going on with the Sagem FI system

[t4tiger]

Thanks for that.  My understanding is that the sagem doesn't need the 12 min adaption.  I had assumed that a new map would come with the trim settings that make it work effectively.  This doesn't happen for me. The settings I mention stay the same no matter what map I put in.  The tables definitely change and she runs different.  It just doesn't make sense to me to have to change the trims each time.  I am doing the sagem adaption but surely this just tried to make it run with the three settings I mention and not actually change those settings?  Confused or what....

[t4tiger]

Any clarification appreciated..

[Ron in Buffalo]

I had a rough running issue. I change spark plugs. Engine light came on after change I rode it a 1000 miles. I downloaded tuneecu adjusted the trims and tried couple different "tunes". The tuneecu told me I had an issue with #1 coil. The coil stick had excessive cracks. I bought a coil stick off ebay. I change it and it seems to help. But not totally after I put it back together still had a slight engine miss. Remember everything time I did something I had to take gas  tank off (big pita). Tuneecu was not showing any fault codes after I change coil stick. Still had miss. At this point I was ready to take it part and sale it parts on ebay.
I went to a friend he told to check the plugs. Because they had less than 1300 miles on them.That was the last thing I wanted to do was to take the tank off again. I did.  I had 2 spark were bad the tip was broke off one. Put 3 new plugs in started it up no more miss ran good. I had to break out tuneecu to undo everything I did.
Also changed my vaccum hoses in the process. Don't know if this helps but I would like what each "trim" on the tuneecu does.

[t4tiger]

Thanks Ron. I think I've covered the mechanical possibilities 🤔. Right now interested in getting to grips with tuneecu. So my question about maps and trim settings being separate,/ combined with download stands. Anyone?

[London_Phil]

Are you sitting comfortably.... You may be some time...


http://www.triumphrat.net/ecm-and-fi-tuning-help-tips-and-tricks/167021-tuneecu-idle-fuel-trim-on-955i-sagem-with-o2-sensor.html
http://www.triumphrat.net/ecm-and-fi-tuning-help-tips-and-tricks/452450-idle-fuel-trim-co.html

http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/index.php?topic=15660.0

[Chris Canning]

Im not sure. Not sure anybody, including Triumph, ever really understood what was going on with the Sagem FI system

And frankly if you use that as your starting point it'll cause less stress because simply the Sagem is not an exact science.

I've had 2 885i's and a 955 god knows how many maps i've Had in each over the years the one dead cert is they change over time they are the only bikes I have ever had this happen with other bikes that I have with custom remaps that have been in for years run just the same as they always have done.

My 955 whilst having many maps in over the 16 or so years i've Had it,apart from each map doing its own thing over time has run really well,that was until the stepper motor went belly up a couple of years ago and ever since it has been a magical mystery tour I never know how it is going to run I even have 2 tickover settings the one is 1300 and the other 1100,I have even found that it doesn't like me starting it up and me just riding off,if I start the bike up and give it 30 seconds to get its shit together!! It behaves much better but an exact science it ain't and never has been.

What has lead me up the garden path in the wrong direction is the charging system makes sure it's good because if it ain't anything to do with the ECU and fuelling will have you chasing your tale.

[John Stenhouse]

As I understand it, and that's like Chris says not an exact science, the reason the trims don't change is that they are separate to the map and are designed to make the base map run "better" for each individual bike, so they stay with the bike when you change the map.

Let's see if I can give you an example: Say you and your tiger live in the Rockies at 5000 ft, a map that works at sea level would be too lean for your particular bike at 5000ft, so the trims, which, do change over time with how you ride the bike and where you ride, compensate by enriching the map and trimming it to make it run "better".
I think that's how it works anyway

[t4tiger]

Thanks John.  That really helps.  I can progress knowing that the ECU/download is doing what it's supposed to do.  Thanks for the links and other advice. I will get there.

[London_Phil]

Would it be reasonable to say the trim would be like offset value(s) for an  individual bikes sensors etc to allow the map to function without worrying about each bikes different character etc.
Seems that the Sagem is fairly basic, and as a result not as flexible as a newer style, and less able to accommodate out of spec/tolerance  components, and wear etc?

[Sin_Tiger]

Would it be reasonably to say the trim would be like offset value(s) for an  individual bikes sensors

[Bixxer Bob]

ok.  Simple terms:

If you have an O2 sensor you do an adaptive tune
If you don't have an )2 sensor you do a 12 minute tune.

Blowing in the same map as already in there sometimes resets the trims, sometimes it doesent.  I never managed to work out why.
To make sure the trims are reset I always blew in a different map then blew in the one I wanted.  I noticed this first when I used Tuneboy.  A full remap took longer than a simple overwrite.

The Triumph base trim settings are quite smooth but within  few miles the ECU, using the O2 sensor, trims it until it's rubbish again.  My theory is that you should reset everything by remapping then plug in an O2 bypass to lock it in base mode but never got round to trying it.

The IACV setting is like the idle jet when you had carbs.  IT should be set so that a throttle blip when the engine has warmed up picks up cleanly and doesnt pop too much on overrun.

The LTFT is a one-off setting and should normally only need trimming if the ECU is changed.  Changing it alters the fuel across the whole range which you shouldn't ever need to do.  It's normally about 4.18