Tiger not starting after riding for a while

[BykBoy]

I am having a hard time starting the Tiger after it heats up. After about an hour of riding (especaill in slow trafic, or when riding in the dirt at slow speeds), if I kill the engine (using the kill switch or tunring off the ignition) then hit the ignition to try to start it back up, the starter engages but it sounds like the timing is off. The ignition seems to (for lack of a better term) 'slip' and the engine does not 'catche' and start up. Sometimes the 'slip' stops after a few treys and the bike will start. If this does not happen, I have to wait about 15-20 min for cool down or something, and then it starts up. It always starts up after the cool down period.

As for the obviouse: the kickstand is up, the bike is not in gear, and the kill switch is not engaged...

Additional information: Battery is new, ignition relay looks OK, bike starts and runs without a hitch when cold, and the bike's computer does not report any errors (my friend has one of these car computers that can talk to the Tiger, but he is not a motorcycle mechanic...). Bike has > 60K miles but has undergone regular service at authorized Triumph dealer.

Does anyone have similar experience with EFI bikes?

[swamper650]

Just a thought...check out all electrical connections to the starter and relay. Also check battery ground. If all ok, check out the amps draw on the starter both cold and hot...may be a bad starter........

[katoomon]

Will it bump start (begin on a hill) under these conditions?

Your description is not very clear.  If I understand you correctly, the starter is spinning but not engaging and turning the motor?  Most motorcycle starters have a freewheel/pawl ring (called a sprag clutch) like a bicycle freewheel, that is always turning  That's why you hear the starter type noise when you kill the motor, the starter is always connected.  When the motor is started, the speed of the engine overruns the starter clutch.  When the sprag clutch fails, the starter motor spins freely and the engine does not turn when you press the starter button. Or, the sprag clutch freezes up and the starter motor spins with the engine; not good as this will definitely kill a starter motor with high rpm and a wicked ugly noise as your starter explodes.

Why the EFI bike question? If it is a fuel delivery issue:
1. When was the last time the valves were adjusted?
2. Has the FI ever been synchronized?
3. Which fuel map?
4. Spray some wd-40 around the intake while it is idling, if the rev's increase there is a vacuum leak.

Just throwing some ideas out there.

[BykBoy]

Thanks for the input. Let me see if I can try to explain the simptom better:

When I push the starter button, I can hear the starter engine try to start the motor. The normal sound of the starter is :
"ehgh ehgh ehgh ehgh..."

The cycle and beat are constant. The engine usually starts after the 2nd or 3rd "ehgh".

When I push the starter button if the bike is hot (after riding in slow trafic, or off raod at low speed but high RPM), the sound I hear is more like:
"ehgh ehgh eh ehi ehi ehi ehi".

The cycle changes, but the beat stays the same. Sounds like the cycle does not complete itself...

It's not the same sound as wehn the battery is drained. In that case, the cycle stays the same, but the beat slows down with each revolution.

check out the amps draw on the starter both cold and hot...may be a bad starter........

I'll try that, but I would expect the computer to log a flag if there were any problems with the starter.

Will it bump start (begin on a hill) under these conditions?

Don't know... it only happend when I was in the flats... :oops:

Why the EFI bike question? If it is a fuel delivery issue:
1. When was the last time the valves were adjusted?
2. Has the FI ever been synchronized?
3. Which fuel map?
4. Spray some wd-40 around the intake while it is idling, if the rev's increase there is a vacuum leak.

Just throwing some ideas out there.

All scheduled maintenance was performed by the dealer on time. The fule map was done 50K miles ago for the high flow can... No issues there.

As I said before, after the bike cools down, it starts up and runs without any problem.

I had the stator/rectifier replaced by the dealer, and I replaced the colent temp sensor. The computer does not list any errors. The dealer can not re-create the problem so they can't figure out what's wrong...

My guess is a faulty relay, but I checked the relay next to the fuse box and it looked OK.

 :?:  :?:

[iansoady]

Could be one or more coils or crankshaft position sensor failing when they're hot - otherwise perhaps a temperature sensor isn't working properly and not giving correct mixture. Do you hear the fuel pump start up when you switch the ignition on before pressing the button? Is there a smell of petrol from the exhaust?

If I understand your phonetics correctly, it sounds as if it's trying to start but just not catching properly. So it doesn't sound like a starter motor / relay problem to me.

Maybe something else to consider is valve clearances. If they've closed up you might be losing compression when it's warm, but of course there's a fair bit of dismantling to get at these.

[Mustang]

gotta go with Ian on this one sounds like an ignition pick up failure to me . or possibly valves , but I'm leaning towards the pick up sensor .

Been there done that !

[BykBoy]

gotta go with Ian on this one sounds like an ignition pick up failure to me . or possibly valves , but I'm leaning towards the pick up sensor .

Been there done that !

Where / what is the pick up sensor?

[BykBoy]

Could be one or more coils or crankshaft position sensor failing when they're hot - otherwise perhaps a temperature sensor isn't working properly and not giving correct mixture. Do you hear the fuel pump start up when you switch the ignition on before pressing the button? Is there a smell of petrol from the exhaust?

Yes, i can hear the fule pump start up. No, ther eis no smell of petrol from the exhust.

[2004Tiger]

I am having a hard time starting the Tiger after it heats up. ....

How hot is it? Do you have the coolant expansion tank problem of reversed tubes so you have lost a lot of coolant? This is known to cause severe overheating problems in stop-and-go traffic and slow riding. If so, I can imagine the computer sensing the too-hot condition and not allowing it to start. This might sound like ignition failure while cranking.

[Mustang]

gotta go with Ian on this one sounds like an ignition pick up failure to me . or possibly valves , but I'm leaning towards the pick up sensor .

Been there done that !

Where / what is the pick up sensor?

If it is like the steamers it is on the crankshaft on the right hand side and it is what sends the signal to the ecu it is the modern version of a set of points .
When they fail you will not realize what is happening other than no spark , the bike will spin over on the starter motor fine but it aint gonna start until the pick up sensor cools off enuff to work again , usually when one fails happens when you are riding and your tach will drop to zero even though the engine is still turning over . IE rolling in gear with clutch engaged like you were riding it !

[Stretch]

The Crankshaft Position Sensor on a 955 is on the left side, just inboard of the alternator cover, at about the 2:00 position.

Not the three wires coming out of the alternator cover, but the big plug in the middle of the silver machined area.

[BykBoy]

I am having a hard time starting the Tiger after it heats up. ....

How hot is it? Do you have the coolant expansion tank problem of reversed tubes so you have lost a lot of coolant? This is known to cause severe overheating problems in stop-and-go traffic and slow riding. If so, I can imagine the computer sensing the too-hot condition and not allowing it to start. This might sound like ignition failure while cranking.

Good point... I'll check the tubes to make sure they are not switched...

[BykBoy]

The Crankshaft Position Sensor on a 955 is on the left side, just inboard of the alternator cover, at about the 2:00 position.

Not the two wires going into the alternator cover, but the big plug in the middle of the silver machined area.

Thanks!  I'll have a looksee.

[NortonCharlie]

I assume you have checked the oil recently.  How old is the oil and does it smell like fuel.  The symptoms are indicative of hot oil failure.  Could be a ton of other things but the oil could do it.

[Mustang]

The Crankshaft Position Sensor on a 955 is on the left side, just inboard of the alternator cover, at about the 2:00 position.

Not the two wires going into the alternator cover, but the big plug in the middle of the silver machined area.

Thanks!  I'll have a looksee.

when the sensor failed on the wifes steamer we could get it running right away by pouring cool water on the case and it would be just enuff to drop the temp and let it start and run for about 5-10 minutes before it would die again , took about a half a dozen times to get it home instead of on the side of the road . that's how I determined it was the sensor .