Can Stoner be Stopped?

[HappyMan]

I agree but his comments were immature.  I had him on too high of a pedestal.  He'll get there though.

[HappyMan]

Need I say more.....:roll:
Valentino Rossi and Casey Stoner exchanged words in parc ferme over a number of incidents in Sunday's MotoGP round at Laguna Seca.
The pair battled for the lead for 24 of the 32 laps, passing and re-passing each other several times. Rossi spent the most time in front and was ahead when Stoner ran wide at the last corner and dropped his bike in the gravel.
That granted Rossi an easy run to his maiden victory at Laguna, while Stoner recovered to finish second but complained about Rossi's riding after the race.
A brief conversation in parc ferme when Rossi attempted to shake hands with Stoner was caught on the BBC's live television coverage:
Rossi: "Great race."
Stoner: "No, you can't race this way."
Rossi: "That's racing, Casey."
Stoner: "That's racing? Ok, we'll see."
Stoner explained his complaint, claiming that some of Rossi's overtaking moves crossed the line between aggressive and 'too much'.
"It was about two or three moves, I think everybody will have seen them," he told the BBC. "A couple of other moves were alright, nice and clean, but there were a couple I wasn't happy with.
"I've been in hard racing all my life, some very aggressive racing, but today was a little bit too much. I nearly went in the gravel so many times and I don't think it was necessary. I was so nearly on the floor it wasn't funny."
The Australian later expanded on his view, and also suggested that Rossi braked earlier than usual at the final corner which caused him to run wide before falling in the gravel.
"I was just trying to find a point where I could get past where I knew he wasn't going to come barreling up the inside and wipe us both out," said Stoner. "We're here to try to score points, not to end a race. Even when I ran wide in the corner I could easily have gone into the back of Valentino and both of us gone down.
"He seemed to brake a lot earlier than normal. I nearly stayed on the track and I'd completely let off the brakes just to get it round to the right of him. I'm disappointed with my mistake. I could have caught it, I suppose. He'd done it a few times in the race so I should have been expecting it, but that time I just couldn't stop quick enough. I felt like I was going to plough into the back of him so I just let the brakes off and went around."
When asked whether the outcome of the race makes him think he should be more aggressive in future, Stoner replied: "I don't know whether I should because I've had problems before. I got fined two years ago for getting slightly in the way of Dani Pedrosa on a qualifying lap. I didn't mean to but I got fined for it.
"Dani or Valentino wouldn't get fined for this, but I get fined for it. So I'm worried if I do the same display I'll have punishment put on me, so I prefer to stay away from this and ride clean, aggressive but clean. If everything's kept fair and square it's alright, but I'm wondering sometimes whether they make decisions for certain reasons.
"But, look, Valentino rode a great race and I have nothing against that, just a couple of his overtaking moves, for me, were past the point. But I spoke to him about it on the podium and we'll just get on with the next weekend."
Rossi dismissed the claims of over-aggression, telling Italia1 television: "What a great race. I'm sorry Stoner complained. I understand our fight was very aggressive, but I think he complained most of all because he ended up behind. I'm very sad that he was angry at the beginning but I think after a race like this it's normal when you arrive behind.
"I think the battle was normal, I never touched him, I never ran wide. The overtaking moves were tough but I always passed under braking, which is where I'm stronger. This is racing and every overtake was very clear for me.
"The only time he tried to pass me he touched me with the wheel on the elbow, so I should be more upset than him!"
He was also quick to deny that he braked earlier than usual at the final corner on the lap of Stoner's fall.
"No, no, no. I never make this type of thinking in my career and I become angry if he says this," said Rossi. "I'm good to overtake, not to brake before. I think he made a mistake and you need to admit when you made a mistake. I didn't brake before, for sure. I didn't even know he crashed, I saw the next lap."
Rossi added that he was genuinely quick enough to win the race and warned Stoner that he is fighting hard to win the championship.
"I was going quick and, except on the front straight where the Ducati is a bit quicker than our bike, I don't think I was slowing him down. I wanted to win, Stoner cannot think we're here to play games: we're fighting to win, this is racing.
"I've been racing for a long time and, except for these last few years, I remember races to be like this and no one ever complained. Casey is very strong, but we are fast and we are ready for the battle."
The Italian went on to describe one of the moves that Stoner wasn't happy with, where Rossi squeezed past Stoner into the Corkscrew and bounced wide over the gravel as he dropped down the hill.
"It was fun, like an old style race with some hard overtaking back to back. That move was fantastic, he braked late but I braked even later. We went a bit wide but that's a peculiar corner so it can happen. When I realised I was going on the gravel I worried a bit, but the gravel here has good grip!
"In the end, it was the most important victory this year and I think I deserved it. Anyway, he made his mistake alone."

[katoomon]

I've watched the Laguna race 4 times now and whilst I'd agree the track levelled up the two bikes, the difference was experience and "the will to win" on Rossi's part.

Rossi's had some bad luck in the past at Laguna and he certainly had some good luck this weekend when he barrelled down that corkscrew across the sand!

Something happens to that crazy Harpo Marx look-a-like when he flips his race visor down. It's like he's two different people. He's now secured the psychological advantage over Stoner until Brno. If Rossi can finish ahead of Stoner there, it would be a massive dent in Ducati's hopes of securing the title for a second year.

Whatever happens this season Rossi (with his new 2 year Yamaha deal) will almost certainly go on to win in excess of 100 GPs and become immortal. Having said all this, I still hope Stoner joins him on that pedestal - maybe in ten years time !

As I stood near the top of the corkscrew, the race announcer told us that positions had changed twice...  On the first lap...  It was a tremendously exciting race.  I was fortunate enough to be at the corkscrew when Rossi went wide and got a 6-frame sequence of his new line (here's one below).  There were many Rossi fans and not everyone was bummed when Stoner ran off the track, although it sure took all the excitement away from the race.  Rossi rode fierce, hard, and showed a commitment to overcoming previous bad juju.

It was a great weekend, a little over 800 miles rt.  No ride report since I was traveling with some iron butts, and well, who has time for pictures.  Their usual pace was not conducive to road photos.  They were up for some decent mountain roads though and we scraped hard parts on Hwy 4 in the tight, banked, switchbacks.  You know you are on a great mountain road when it gets so narrow the centerline disappears.

[HappyMan]

Can't wait for the Brick Yard.  Hope it's just as exciting!  I was bummed when Stoner went down and if he'd one the race my hat would be off to him.  He stuck with it and really raced his ass off.  He should have had more grit than to whine about it but he's got time.  He lost my respect, however.  Looks like he's ready to take a good drink from that bottle in your last picture....

[katoomon]

New camera, can't help it...  Spies and Vermeulen are some of the most athletic riders out there, they hang off in the corners more than any other riders.  Might be a Rizla requirement thing.

We didn't have a Mladin/Spies battle at the AMA Superbike following Moto-GP Mladin ran away from everone and won uncontested.  Spies came in second, uncontested.

Have a most excellent time at The Brickyard.

[HappyMan]

I like Spies.  Awesome photo!!  Can't wait to get the Brick Yard!!!

[Advwannabe]

If anyone can do it it's Rossi but holy crap Stoner is fast.  I'd sure like to see Vale on that Ducati......

Hey Happy, sorry to have to pick this up days later, but that's life at sea.

I agree with everything you've said with regard to Casey's maturity, but my argument was based on your comment above.

A lot of people acknowledge that the kid is doing well, but there is always that undercurrent of 'is it the bike?' which is what you appear to be intimating. Comparing Stoner's record over the last two years with other Bridgestone and Ducati riders gives the lie to that one IMHO.

So what are we left with? A fast kid with some growing up to do. I was pretty unimpressed with the way Caparossi nerfed Harada off to win his 250 world title back in 1994(?), but he's turned into a fast Motogp rider and a pretty decent bloke as well. Give the kid time. Here's another interview based on what he and his parents did to get him where he is. Quite revealing...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Jul/080731a.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Jul/080731a.htm)

Looks like Suzuki are going to re-sign their riders for next year, but I hope there is a spot for Spies somewhere in Motogp. Another kid with a lot of potential.

[HappyMan]

No, there was a time I thought it was just the bike but the kid is damn good and I'd be the first to admit that.  I am sure he will go down as one of the best but I hope he grows up.  If he doesn't then I don't want him dragging down a great sport.  I really believed he had a lot more class than that.  Like I said, if he'd won I would have taken my hat off to him but now he's just lost my respect.  Respect is earned and he's got time to earn it back.  If he'd taken the time to shake Rossi's hand and say "Enjoy it for what it's worth Vale cause I'm gonna nail you next time" I'd be quite impressed with him.  I'm mean that kid didn't give up against an Italian that was bound and determined to not let him win.  If he'd taken it with stride he would have looked pretty damn cool.  I really enjoy Rossi but when Pedrosa is kickin' his ass I'm not wishing he'd go down, I'm even rooting for him to give it his all.  I don't even like him but I respect him and I feel that way about most of them.  I'm not a "my guy's got to win at all costs" kind of fan.  I love the sport more than the rider.  I'm just sayin....Stoner had a great opportunity to look pretty good.  He should have just left his mouth shut.  He's young and he'll learn.

[ChrisN]

Thanks for the photo Katoomon

AWESOME !

[katoomon]

Thanks for the photo Katoomon
AWESOME !

thanks, you are most  welcome.  Here's a few more.  No one has dial up anymore do they?

[ChrisN]

Can Stoner be stopped ?  from what ?  Falling Off !

He's now handed the last three GPs to Rossi who's sitting on a 75 point cushion with 5 races to go. Even if Rossi uses his pit scooter it looks like the title is his for the taking.

It's a real pity Stoner is having front end problems which I suspect may be inside his helmet. No one enjoys a one horse race, although at least it's moved the spotlight further down the field to the likes of Toseland who's showing great promise for us Brits.

[Chris Canning]

I'd say more like moved the spotlight to WSB,the Moto GP movers and shackers must be shitting themselves with the spectre of another era like they had with Doohan in 90's,i've been to Valencia no end of times including the first in 99,i'll not bother this year thats for sure,there have been plenty of Stoner knockers,but without him it would been just another procession,like it's going to be till the end of the season.

[HappyMan]

Stoner is still too cocky.  His interview about the Bridgestone changeover for Pedrosa was rediculous.  It's good for him to get psyched out but I suspect he'll be back at the top next year.   Next year has promise for several.  I'd sure love to see Hayden come back as well.

[ChrisN]

I'd say more like moved the spotlight to WSB,the Moto GP movers and shackers must be shitting themselves with the spectre of another era like they had with Doohan in 90's,i've been to Valencia no end of times including the first in 99,i'll not bother this year thats for sure,there have been plenty of Stoner knockers,but without him it would been just another procession,like it's going to be till the end of the season.

Times are certainly changing Chris. If you don't go to Valencia at least you'll get to enjoy Eurosports last TV coverage of MotoGP. I think next season all we'll see in the UK is the main event. No more coverage of qualifying or 125/250's. The BBC will probably have the race back to back with Formula 1. Although the way its going it'll be difficult to spot the difference !

[HappyMan]

The BBC will probably have the race back to back with Formula 1. Although the way its going it'll be difficult to spot the difference !

No kidding!  Let's go back to two strokes and no more on board electronics.  I liked it best when we got a nice power slide and we actually got to watch the skill of the riders.