The alternatives?

[52blackshadow]

I've notices a certain rivalry here between Tiger riders and those who may favour the BMW R1200 (or earlier) GS.



How do you all feel about the alternatives?  I currently have a Cagiva Elefant in the garage next to the Tiger and a couple of older BMWs (an airhead and an oilhead).  This week I've booked a test ride on the KTM 950 Adventure.  It looks to be everything the Tiger promised but didn't quite deliver but has anyone out there tried one, and what did you think?



Cheers,

              Keith.

[Brock]

What didn't the Tiger deliver?

At least the seat doesn't cut your arse in half...

The KTM looks like an incredible bike but a bit radical if you do any miles. I tried the 'dero and the Caponord (and the GS, but I daren't talk about that...) The 'nord was a very nice bike with a stonking engine. But buy an Aprilia? Nah.

[52blackshadow]

Morning Chris,

                       the Tiger has dissappointed me in terms of the finish, and the off road ability (more styling than ability).  It has also felt fragile, and I have had a couple of little faults which have made it unrideable to me for short periods.



The KTM seems rugged, less complicated than the Tiger and to my mind, more rugged looking - what the hell, it's a bit ugly but if it's as nice on the road as the magazines say then it sounds like the sort of bike I need.



Cheers,

             Keith.

[Brock]

That's a pity...my first Tiger wasn't perfect, with niggling build quality and corrosion problems. I reckon it had a couple of hard winters without being cleaned before it came to me. Still, I had enough faith in the bike to buy a new one recently. So far I'm amazed how much better built she is.

Having tried several of the alternatives, I have to say this;

1/ The Tiger doesn't feel any more "fragile" than any of them. OK...you can buy more off-road tyres and Touratech boxes if that's your thing, but underneath the trail-bike add-ons they're all very much the same.

2/ None of these bikes are REALLY intended for off-road use. Blimey...some reviewers even reckon the Tiger is one of the best in that department! It's horses for courses really...real off-road bikes are smaller, lighter, pared down to the bone and much less comfortable than the bikes we're talking about.

I agree...the KTM looks the business. So does the GS when it's all tarted up with engine bars, square boxes, sat. nav. etc.

Good luck mate, but maybe the bike you're looking for doesn't exist.

That seat on the KTM...ouch!

[52blackshadow]

Afternoon Chris,

                          I suspect you're right and the bike I really want isn't available at the moment, that's why I'm willing to try all the alternatives.



I don't really want fantastic off  road ability, simply a well built bike that stands the rigours of everyday use throughout the year without failing me, but my Cagiva Elefant is much more capable off road than the Tiger. It's practical for a days reasonable green laning straight from the factory, but with enough power and high enough gearing for everyday road work.  Sadly the Ducati engine isn't the best bet for reliablility!



I'd love to believe that my Tiger is just an abused bike which has had a bit of bad luck, and the next one will be better, but if the KTM has lighter weight, better protection from stones etc. better power and a good name for build quality and reliability then I'd be a fool not to at least try one.  Honestly, I'm not trying to slag the Tiger off, simply searching for the elusive 'All rounder' in the motorcycle world.



The seat doesn't feel too bad sitting on it in the shop, there is also a Gel seat available for about £ 70.00 which gets good reviews.



Ride safe,

                Keith.

[Sasquatch]

I can sum up the comparasons simply.  It goes like this:



The Tiger, GS (any), Capo, Strom, etc. are "Dirt Legal Street Bikes".





The KTM is a "Street Legal Dirt Bike".



There, is that an easy one?



I spent last weekend at the Big Cat Dual Sport rally in McCall, ID.  I had the wonderfull opportunity to swap bikes with Patrick Garrihan for about 20 miles of gnarly run down, high mountain jeep track.  If you do not know who Patrick is, well, you probably do not follow off road racing.  He is a factory KTM racer, 7 time ISDE medalist etc. etc..  One seriously fast dude.



I thought I would be able to keep him in sight with me on his factory 950 KTM, and he on my Big Assed Tiger.  Forget it.  The guy was gone, flat gone, vapor trail in the distance gone.  And I have about 20 years of off road racing under my belt as well....



But the ride taught me a few things:



1.  If you want to go hard in the dirt, buy the KTM.

2.  If you want to do ANY trips of decent length on pavement, Tiger rules.

3.  The Tiger still has alot of potential that I have not tapped yet.

4.  If KTM figures out the seat, and quiets a bit more of the vibration down, they will totally dominate the adventure dual sport market, period.

5.  Patrick Garrahan did not get to be a factory racer by talking a good line.  That guy is amazing on two wheels.  He flat railed on my Tiger.  He admitted that the Tiger was MUCH more capabable off road than he ever gave it credit for.  He also said it was MUCH better off road than the GS's.

[Brock]

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Nice one...puts it into context perfectly.

[BP_LONDON]

I can sum up the comparasons simply.  It goes like this:



The Tiger, GS (any), Capo, Strom, etc. are "Dirt Legal Street Bikes".





The KTM is a "Street Legal Dirt Bike".



There, is that an easy one?



I spent last weekend at the Big Cat Dual Sport rally in McCall, ID.  I had the wonderfull opportunity to swap bikes with Patrick Garrihan for about 20 miles of gnarly run down, high mountain jeep track.  If you do not know who Patrick is, well, you probably do not follow off road racing.  He is a factory KTM racer, 7 time ISDE medalist etc. etc..  One seriously fast dude.



I thought I would be able to keep him in sight with me on his factory 950 KTM, and he on my Big Assed Tiger.  Forget it.  The guy was gone, flat gone, vapor trail in the distance gone.  And I have about 20 years of off road racing under my belt as well....



But the ride taught me a few things:



1.  If you want to go hard in the dirt, buy the KTM.

2.  If you want to do ANY trips of decent length on pavement, Tiger rules.

3.  The Tiger still has alot of potential that I have not tapped yet.

4.  If KTM figures out the seat, and quiets a bit more of the vibration down, they will totally dominate the adventure dual sport market, period.

5.  Patrick Garrahan did not get to be a factory racer by talking a good line.  That guy is amazing on two wheels.  He flat railed on my Tiger.  He admitted that the Tiger was MUCH more capabable off road than he ever gave it credit for.  He also said it was MUCH better off road than the GS's.

AWESOME...Anything should be better off road than a GS imo. Those BMW cylinder heads are a nightmare when you have to push the bike through mud.....

[Guest]

The seat doesn't feel too bad sitting on it in the shop, there is also a Gel seat available for about £ 70.00 which gets good reviews.

Spoke to a KTM950 owner the other day. He had a Touratech seat on it which is wider and lower and more importantly, more comfortable. Didn't say how much £££$$$ though.

[52blackshadow]

Thanks for all the replies chaps, I tried the KTM on Tuesday evening and have to say it was the most fun I've had on a bike for a long time!



Sadly, the vibration was really extreme and the seat too hard and narrow for long distance use (business or pleasure).  As someone state earlier, the KTM is a street legal dirt bike, rather than a dirt usable street bike.



To be honest, I don't know whether the bike I want really exists yet. Perhaps I set my expectations too high?



All the best,



Shadow.

[sycamoredave]

If you are serious about off road/adventure touring, you should check out the April 2004 edition of "Rider" magazine.  Andy Kysely wrote an article about his conversion of a Suzuki DR-Z400S to an adventure touring bike.  He modified things like the hand shields, luggage rack, seat, shocks, brakes, air filter, and, added a lowering kit, hard cases, larger fuel tank, better tires, a GPS unit, skid plates,  and a few other mods.  He has commented in the article that he likes the bike, but it needs a few more horses.  I would think a similar approach to a 650 would yield a pretty nice combination.  Something to think about...



Ride safe ...  8)

[newmanr19]

I've notices a certain rivalry here between Tiger riders and those who may favour the BMW R1200 (or earlier) GS.



How do you all feel about the alternatives?  I currently have a Cagiva Elefant in the garage next to the Tiger and a couple of older BMWs (an airhead and an oilhead).  This week I've booked a test ride on the KTM 950 Adventure.  It looks to be everything the Tiger promised but didn't quite deliver but has anyone out there tried one, and what did you think?



Cheers,

              Keith.

I am selling my KTM 950; bought an 02 Tiger and I like it tons better

[Sasquatch]

To throw more fuel on the fire on the off road worthiness I find with my Tiger, read BigDave's post as well as mine from our ride at the ADVrider rally in Ouray, Colorado.  It is in the ride report section.