Getting Stumped now

[Jaythro]

About a year and a half ago a guy in my old bike club contacted me about his Girly

So I said I would have a look and So far the bike has eaten 2 x rectifier regulator and 1 x alternator and a new battery

We changed all three last time and now he tells me that it's at it again?

I did the wiring mod complete with Dual lines and fuses and it's been fine for 6 months and 5,000or more miles?

Is it Quality of the parts ? I used Electrexworld RR99 reg rect and they sent me this G75 Generator

and a new battery all fitted at the same time and tested for outputs values were acceptable

Any views?

[Chris Canning]

Blimey I sound like the guy at the warranty dept(sorry) but are these genuine Triumph parts,because if they ain't you wistleing in the dark,with no reference points,regardless of output values.

How long did the Triumph parts last?,what broke first?

The headlamp relay has to be the classic story for sticking to the hym sheet,as much as it goes against the grain,for no other reason they(Triumph) have done more homework than we have.

[Bixxer Bob]

In a parallel universe.....  Blackbirds have a nasty habit of eating reg/recs and windings.  Most need doing in the first 25k miles, I was lucky and got 55k out of mine (something like that anyway).  To get to the point, the Electrex replacements come highly recommended on the 'Bird forum so that's what I have now (not looking to contradict you Chris, just saying etc...).  

And to use one of Chris's phrases, there's been War and Peace written on this subject including ideas for why the various parts fail, just use the Search button. I would be looking at the quality of connectors, oil in the genny housing breaking down the insulation etc.

[Chris Canning]

In a parallel universe.....  Blackbirds have a nasty habit of eating reg/recs and windings.  Most need doing in the first 25k miles, I was lucky and got 55k out of mine (something like that anyway).  To get to the point, the Electrex replacements come highly recommended on the 'Bird forum so that's what I have now (not looking to contradict you Chris, just saying etc...).  

And to use one of Chris's phrases, there's been War and Peace written on this subject including ideas for why the various parts fail, just use the Search button. I would be looking at the quality of connectors, oil in the genny housing breaking down the insulation etc.

Well at least it gives the man two different options,Honda couldn't make a regulator so long as they got a hole in their corporate arse VFR's/ Blades/Blackbirds,so going off the beaten track is a must do,Triumph do not,slightly different for me as I have a bit to do with the bike breaking game,but if mine goes belly up i'll be buying second hand bits,when things go wrong it's all about cutting down the options,not adding complications,buy hey ho.

[Jaythro]

So I tried teh search button there are a lot of cariables for "Oil in Generator"

So If i get the what you folks are saying is that there should be no oil in the left side casing at all on a 955 Girly?

[Bixxer Bob]

They all end up with a bit, it's the same problem on the 'Bird, and theory has it that the oil breaks down the insulation in the windings but I don't know of anyone proving that.

I've not done the oil in housing thing, but you could PM Evil Betty; he's an expert!!!

[NKL]

I don't buy this oil on windings thing, earlier bikes virtualy run the generator  open to the sump. I blame poor connections, if an alternator goes open circuit (battery disconected) they self destruct, they basically keep generating more and more amps (unlimited) and melt.

[Jaythro]

Okay time for an Update So He took it to someone else after taking my advice and getting a new battery

They replugged the reg rect into the standard loom where I had worked out there was a broken wire a year and odds ago

Result He broke down mid week and expected me to abandon all and go rescue him!

So today I set aside and hour or so and tested ....

Output from alternator Between the phases were all approx 28 v ac

From the battery whilst on orginal main loom connection battery did not seem to be getting juice

Remove plug of original loom and rewire the mustang (or whoever mod) we get 14 ish volts + / - 0.5v

Switch off and remove neg wires and go to 10 amps on the meter and look for discharge whilst ignition off or on park lock but no sidelamp and the result  = o.ooamps

Turn to sidelamps on park lock and you get a small surge settling to 1 amp ish

Am I going Mental? By my reckoning there is F**k all wrong with this bike??

Agree????? ...............................Disagree???

[Bixxer Bob]

Nothing wrong as far as I can tell, it all seems good.  Pity the other "helper" didn't check to see if undoing your good work actually made things better or worse.

It astounds me that people (including supposedly trained, knowledgeable Triumph techinians) will throw up all sorts of dark imaginings of weird electrical faults rather than just bite the bullet and accept the battery is s****ed and buy a new one.  It's not like it's the most expensive part of the system..... :roll:

[cosmo]

It astounds me that people (including supposedly trained, knowledgeable Triumph techinians) will throw up all sorts of dark imaginings of weird electrical faults rather than just bite the bullet and accept the battery is s****ed and buy a new one.  It's not like it's the most expensive part of the system..... :roll:

Probably because weird electrical faults are Triumph's history (well, more Lucas, but Lucas and Triumph are one and the same to most folk).

And, if it stumps you, it's easier to blame the smoke generator than to actually try to understand the whole thing.

Cosmo

[brad1098]

These babies can cook.  What fuses/connectors are between the R/R.

Stretch is the expert here.........dial the red phone to Stretch.

[oxnsox]

I just replaced the battery on mine, when it wouldn't start after a month in the garage. After a jump start from the car it ran like a bag full off arseholes all 12miles into the shop where I put a new battery in.... problem solved and all good for the rest of summer.

(Actually my biggest concern was driving it with the alternator trying to charge a duff battery. Was worried the system might not like running into what was effectively a short for 30minutes.... but all was good>)

[Bixxer Bob]

I just replaced the battery on mine, when it wouldn't start after a month in the garage. After a jump start from the car it ran like a bag full off arseholes all 12miles into the shop where I put a new battery in.... problem solved and all good for the rest of summer.

(Actually my biggest concern was driving it with the alternator trying to charge a duff battery. Was worried the system might not like running into what was effectively a short for 30minutes.... but all was good>)

Exactly.  My dealer told me the injectors weren't firing so no fuel getting to cylinders was a duff ECU (BIG BIG bucks).  No it wasn't, the battery was flat (and as it turned out, knackered).

When the battery is duff, rough running is down to the ECU not consistently getting enough volts to function properly.  ECUs either function or they don't, they don't underperform when the volts drop like say a bulb.  If the volts are borderline the ECU cuts in and out hence the rough running.  Worse, the cutting in and out is not a full data store like when you switch off so the stored values can become corrupt.  (On a normal shut down the ECU holds a relay closed keeping itself supplied with volts even though the key / ign is now off until it's sucessfully stored all the variables then it opens the relay to shut itself down.  If you listen, you can here the replay click a second or two after you turn the ign off).

When the battery is duff you don't have enough volts to throw the engine over properly, resulting in kick back (think back to the old 4 stroke kickstart days).  The sprag clutch on the starter is not designed to take this reverse force and is slowly destroyed by it.  Very expensive fix....

When the battery is duff the generator / reg / rec is overloaded leading to burning of plug terminals and generator /reg / rec death.

It's not all the battery's fault tho' a duff reg will allow the generator volts to rise past 14 volts and cook the battery (usually only on one of the three phases which results in burning of the spade connector for that phase and melting of the insulation for the generator coil on that phase also).

That's as far as I've read.... don't wait for the next exciting installment  :?

[cbxtc6]

Loads of info and insight here;
http://tigertriple.com/forum/viewtopic. ... =regarding

Good luck!

[Jaythro]

Well Alternator number 2 and regulator rectifier number 3

NOW the strange thing I have found is that there is a micro film of metal in an oily film so much so I could see the shapes of the magnets inside the rotor?

Jeez I'm beginning to wish I'd not done him the favour