Ok fellas, thought I'd start a new thread on this one as I'm probably gonna have a shed load of silly questions to ask.
So here's the first 2.
1. Whats the silly little post holding one side of the ignition switch to the top yoke? Theres a bolt in the other side which I got out easy enough.
Any good tips for getting the switch away from the yoke without buggering anything up.
2. There are 2 small brackets on the front of the headstock near the top that don't seem to do anything and just appear to get in the way. Grinder time?
I've attached photos.
Cheers
is the headstock bracket for the steering lock?
Only a guess but the silly little post is probably whats left of the shear nut used to hold the ignition on, they use them for security reasons
As has been said, the bracket with the hole in is (i think) for the steering lock.
As for the sheer bolts that attach the ignition switch, i`ve got them out with a small socket, the bolts are softish, so get a small socket and hammer it over the bolt, the impact of the hammer should loosen it enough to undo it with the socket.
If it won`t come out, you`ll probably have to drill it out.
Chaps,
I'm having a bit of trouble getting the damper rods out of the steamer forks. the sprint ones came apart no problems, but the steamer ones don't have the nut recess in the top to locate my homemade extraction tool into. Any tips?
I'm also getting a bit worried that my stanchions won't fit the sprint lowers. looking on world of triumph, my stanchions don't have a bush on the bottom of them, yet the sprint stanchions do. Has anyone else who've done the conversion used the later steamer forks?
Also I'm worried that the Damper rods may be significantly different. The bolt securing the rod into the bottom of the steamer fork is significantly smaller than the sprint one. If the rod is smaller in general, the hole in the bottom of the stanchion will be smaller and thus the sprint rod may not fit or if it does, the gap the oil flows through may be alot smaller and thus provide alot more damping. I'm a bit reluctant to delve deep into stripping the steamer forks down if it's not going to work and I end up going back to the Mustang set up I have at the moment.
My steamer is a '98 and the sprint forks came off a '99 machine according to the seller.
Any thoughts gratefully received.
I think the Sprint forks you`ve got are the wrong ones, you need the early T3 model ones, i`ve used Trophy and Daytona forks with no issues.
Didn`t know the fork internals were different, do your Steamer forks have the drain hole on the bottom/side?
Can you post up a pic of the Sprint forks and internals?
Just re read your post again, you may need the other type of Steamer forks.
I presume your home made extraction tool is a rod with a nut welded on the end?
I made one as well, you need a 30mm nut on the end to fit the damper rods, what size do you have?
Just trying to figure out what size the recess in both sets of rods are.
Had a look at a parts diagram on line, all the early T3 models share the same part number for the bottom oil screw, same as the early Tiger forks, later Tiger forks is a different part number, so maybe thats the problem, you need a set of early Tiger forks?
early tiger forks are Kayaba
98's had showa forks .
that is why the different part #'s and probably is why stuff isn't matching up .
Thanks for your time spent researching fellas,
I was kinda getting to the point where I thought I needed some older steamer forks. I have the later Showa forks with no drain bolt. i made my own extraction tool with 30mm nut. It's in the attached photos.
I've looked at the parts lists again and like you say, the damper rod securing bolt has the same number on the sprint forks and on the early steamer forks. The small nylon bush on the end of the damper rod also has the same number so I'm pretty sure I'm either gonna need to get some older forks off fleabay or look to Sprint manufacturing for some new stanchions for the older steamer forks.
here are the pics of the sprint forks in bits and the steamer forks - the bolt that secures the damper rod into the steamer forks is alot smaller and requires a 6mm allen key to get it out.
Update: looking on sprint manufacturing, the bottom fork bushes are 20mm wide for kayaba and 15mm for showas. my sprint ones are 20mm so they must be kayabas.
Seems the problems solved, you need a set of early Steamer forks, ones with the drain holes.
There are a few sets on Ebay, depends how much you want to put into the project.
Bought a set last night for £90. It said they were straight and the stroke area was not pitted so touch wood they'll be ok. The lowers looked a bit shabby, but I only need the stanchions so the rest of them will go in the bin.
Keep us updated!
These are the ones I've bought, they were listed as 1997, but visually they look like the ones in Rybes pics so I'm hoping they're what I'm after. Do they look right to you RF?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190808257088?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190808257088?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
They have the drain holes, so should be fine.
Hi ....... Just to bring myself up to speed .... Is the plan to fit later bottoms to the early steamer forks making fitting the wheels easier ?
Im new to this but very interested
Ta
Chris
Quote from: chrisw on December 15, 2013, 05:24:02 AM
Hi ....... Just to bring myself up to speed .... Is the plan to fit later bottoms to the early steamer forks making fitting the wheels easier ?
Im new to this but very interested
Ta
Chris
Plan is to fit the early Steamer stanchions to the Sprint lowers so he can fit the 3 spoke wheels, as the later Steamer forks are not suitable for the conversion.
Fingers crossed they turn up before xmas as I've pretty much got everything else sorted and this is now holding me up. Got a week off work over xmas and I've been promised a day in the garage to get it sorted.
RF, how have you secured the lower end of the gaitors to the fork bottom, as the sprint ones are bigger and the gaitors don't slide over. Or have you just left them floating?
I bought some aftermarket gaiters, they fit nicely over the bottoms without anything securing them.
yeah they look the ones. was just about to add i have a set if you get stuck but you found some :thumbsup. jus wait till youve finsihed the conversion and go out on it the first time. itll actually stop :bug_eye
That's what I'm hoping for Rybes, got a tidy set of the 4 pot calipers and a set of venhill lines. Also bought a 5/8ths master cylinder and replaced the internals with new.
Forks on their way, should be delivered Mon. Can't see her indoors letting me crack on with it xmas eve/day, so hopefully end of next week I can get them all swapped over and start building it back up again.
I'm looking at possibly trying to get to the Tiger meet next year, so hopefully I can thank you fellas in person with a pint or two of liquid refreshment.
Quote from: GavD on December 18, 2013, 11:05:34 AM
Can't see her indoors letting me crack on with it xmas eve/day,
Bummer :violent1 all the other kids will be playing with their new toys.
:wheel < GavD on his freshly booted tiger note the grin
Update: Forks arrived yesterday, much earlier than they said. I was on call last night for the leccy company I work for and ended up working most of the night getting power lines back up, so ended up with some unexpected free time today to tinker.
Right hand fork was no problem, stripped and swapped over to the sprint lowers in about an hour.
Left hand fork not so good - :icon_frown: when I stripped the Sprint fork down a week or so ago the stanchion didn't slide too well and the fork seal retaining spring showed signs of rust which when I got further in had migrated and caused some corrosion further in. Anyway I thought a good clean up might do the trick, but when I put the tiger stanchion in today, there were a couple of tight spots in the travel area. I used the old sprint stanchion & bush to try and work it a bit to see if it freed up a bit, but no joy. And it gets even tighter once you start to locate the top bush in place. So it looks like I'm in the market for a left hand fork leg now......... one bonus I suppose is that at least last nights overtime will mean there's a bit of cash to pay for it.
World of triumph want £300 for a new 'un, so think I'll be trawling fleabay again.
as the fork bottom is ally i reckon if you got a/some scotchbrite pad and wrapped it round a stick till it was a tight fit in the leg i reckon itll clean up. if it dont work at least it was worth a go n might save ya a few quid. as scotchbrites are plastic it wont damage the ally
I'll give it a go
Ta
You could try using some grinding paste on the Sprint stanchion and bush if the scotchbrite doesn`t work.
:iagree
Quote from: rf9rider on December 19, 2013, 11:44:38 PM
You could try using some grinding paste on the Sprint stanchion and bush if the scotchbrite doesn`t work.
You're not having a lot of luck mate :icon_cry: on the bright side, at least it's not slack.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on December 20, 2013, 06:32:48 AM
:iagree
Quote from: rf9rider on December 19, 2013, 11:44:38 PM
You could try using some grinding paste on the Sprint stanchion and bush if the scotchbrite doesn`t work.
You're not having a lot of luck mate :icon_cry: on the bright side, at least it's not slack.
Well, not slack yet anyway. Go easy with the abrading.... yiu can take metal out, but you can't put it back :BangHead
Before you go remove metal on the leg are you 100% sure the stanchion is straight? Slight curve will cause it to tighten the further it goes into the slider.
It don't matter which stanchion I use, it's tight with all of 'em. Also the bush that was on the bottom of the sprint stanchion that came out of it was not looking too good, almost like the outside surface had some sort of covering that has gone bad in some way.
I'm gonna try some scotchbrite first but i've also bought some fine cleaning past I was gonna try if Rybes's scotchbrite idea doesn't work. I was also considering using toothpaste which is a fine polishing paste.
See pics below for paste and the lower bush.
Any thoughts fellas?
I'm obviously not gonna re-use the bush that came out of the fork, the replacement Tiger ones I bought have much better ones that almost look new.
It looks like the same nylon-like layer bonded to the bush that I found on the bushes of my Blackbird when I changed them. They were in much better condition that those....
I seem to remember on the Blackbird bushes the nylon was on the outside (like yours shown) on the bottom bushes and the inside on the top ones. I assumed it to be for oil retention to reduce friction.....
These polymer coatings on bronze bushings are quite common now. The principle is to increase initial conformity and reduce stiction.
No joy with the scotchbrite and paste :icon_mad:, so I've ordered a LH fork from Sprint manufacturing.
Quote from: rf9rider on December 15, 2013, 08:19:17 PM
I bought some aftermarket gaiters, they fit nicely over the bottoms without anything securing them.
RF,
Have you got a link? Or are they for a certain bike?
Ta
Gav
I got them off Ebay.
I`ll have a look through and let you know.
Cheers
Bushes are known as DU bushes if you didn't know. Mild steel case with bronze then PTFE bearing layers like most bearings readily available in std sizes. They could be OEM specials but worth measuring and checking with simplybearings.com as there typically £3-6 delivered from them.
Had a look back through my old Ebay stuff, can`t find them.
Just measure the stanchion width, then measure across the top of the actual fork leg, measure the length required then search Ebay with your measurements.
Quote from: akendall1966 on December 25, 2013, 08:22:05 PM
Bushes are known as DU bushes if you didn't know. Mild steel case with bronze then PTFE bearing layers like most bearings readily available in std sizes. They could be OEM specials but worth measuring and checking with simplybearings.com as there typically £3-6 delivered from them.
I sell Du bushes at work ....... let me know the details and Ill check em out
Quote from: rf9rider on December 25, 2013, 09:18:46 PM
Had a look back through my old Ebay stuff, can`t find them.
Just measure the stanchion width, then measure across the top of the actual fork leg, measure the length required then search Ebay with your measurements.
Cheers for looking RF,
I'll wait until I get the other fork sorted then I can get the bike back down on it's wheels to take some length measurements. As my set up is going to be pretty similar to yours, I was hoping you'd come up with an easy 'click here' option for me, I've done a bit of googling, but there aren't many options for 43mm forks & 62mm bottoms, they either appear to be far too short or too long. I reckon I'm looking about 250mm long from the top of the fork bottom to the bottom of the extra yoke that mounts the mudguard.
Now, where's that fork ............... come on Santa you're late!!
Quote from: GavD on December 27, 2013, 01:53:13 PM
Quote from: rf9rider on December 25, 2013, 09:18:46 PM
Had a look back through my old Ebay stuff, can`t find them.
Just measure the stanchion width, then measure across the top of the actual fork leg, measure the length required then search Ebay with your measurements.
Cheers for looking RF,
I'll wait until I get the other fork sorted then I can get the bike back down on it's wheels to take some length measurements. As my set up is going to be pretty similar to yours, I was hoping you'd come up with an easy 'click here' option for me, I've done a bit of googling, but there aren't many options for 43mm forks & 62mm bottoms, they either appear to be far too short or too long. I reckon I'm looking about 250mm long from the top of the fork bottom to the bottom of the extra yoke that mounts the mudguard.
Now, where's that fork ............... come on Santa you're late!!
are these any good?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rubber-Fork-Gaiters-40mm-x-60mm-x-210mm-/321277301999?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item4acd9e94ef
I think they're gonna end up being a bit short. Also the fork stanchions are 43mm so I think that may be stretching it a bit. I'll wait till I can make some accurate measurements.
I`ll measure mine up over the weekend and let you know. :thumbsup
Thanks,
Thought I'd better post some photos to sparkle things up a bit.
My one legged tigger now has yokes all in place and hopefully tightened up enough. I'm using the original Adventurer risers but will need some additional ones to bring the bars back to me a bit as these ones sit a bit more forward than the originals.
Got the additional top yoke in place with the mudguard & this morning got the brakes all done and bled & new pads. Brake lines are an amalgamation of the Venhill set-up I had before and the HEL over the top loop that came with the calipers. Gonna see how the over the top looks once it's all together as it will obviously be an underneath the mudguard loop with my high mudguard.
gettin closer everday now till ya can get out on it :hat10 bet ya cant wait
Weather dependant of course rybes, bit of a fair weather biker nowadays!
Looking forward to a little spin to see if it's much different to the mustang setup I was running.
Gonna have to leave the rear as the 6 spoke at the moment as I don't have a tyre for the rear, so it'll be an 18 inch rear instead of a 17. not sure how much effect it would have changing to the 17.
I had the 6 spokes on my first Steamer, it tended to tip into the corners faster, plus as you probably already know, it raises the seat a little more.
As for the handlebar risers, i bought a set of Rox Risers, which raise the bars and brings them back, along with the Moose bars, it makes the riding position about perfect for me.
Replacement fork has turned up, but at some point it has been resprayed and doesn't match the other leg, so gotta get the rattle tins out again. Think I'll just go for black Hammerite smooth.
Tried getting the new leg apart, but it was stuck solid, ended up drilling out the damper rod retaining bolt from the bottom of the fork, that sorted it ok.
Just gotta rub down both forks, mask up the one already built and get spraying then I can start to get the front end built back up again and sat down on it's wheels to measure up for fork gaiters. Also on the lookout for some risers to bring the bars back and up a bit.
I've also been looking at some Renthal bars and found some ATV ones in the UK for £40 that give a bit more rise and sweep back, might give them a go if the riser option doesn't work.
how bout these. theyd look lovely on it :bad http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-5-inch-16-5cm-Chrome-M12-ADJUSTABLE-Risers-for-1-Handlebars-PAIR-56-0652-/121155519682?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item1c356e84c2
:augie
bit dear buthow bout summink like this ? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-5-inch-16-5cm-Chrome-M12-ADJUSTABLE-Risers-for-1-Handlebars-PAIR-56-0652-/121155519682?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item1c356e84c2 or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201012321167?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 ive seen these last ones with the handle bar cut out set back. if i can find em ill post ya the link
these where what i was thinkin of. im sure ive seen em cheaper than that tho. if not cant see itbein too difficult to get some made or make yaself http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SW-MOTECH-MOTORCYCLE-31mm-UP-22MM-BACK-BLACK-HANDLEBAR-RISERS-/291033328725?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item43c2f02c55
The SW Motech ones were what I was looking at, or maybe some ROX ones that you just rotate and clamp in the right position.
New fork all done now, both lowers repainted.
Bolted it all back together and got it set down on the wheels for measuring up for the fork gaiters. Ordered them today so just gotta wait for them to turn up then strip it all down again to fit 'em.
Only thing then is to get out on a test ride to see if I need to do something with the handlebars.
comin tgetha well mate :icon_mrgreen: bet ya cant wait to get out on it
If this bloody rain ever stops
you got rain too ? ive been in denmark from 13th of dec. only had 1 or 2 dry days
It's been pretty relentless here, ground is full of water so it's got nowhere to go and hence lots of people are being flooded out.
Lots of power lines down too which is good for my overtime!! MORE TIGER BITS!!!
Got me fork gaiters and fitted them today, so that should be the last time I've got to drop the forks out. Got the tank back on tonight to get her running again as i haven't started it for about 4 or 5 weeks. Switched the fuel on and left it for a minute to fill up the bowls, only to find fuel dripping off the airbox on the left hand side where it is leant over on it's sidestand. Removed tank and had a good look around, but couldn't find anything obvious. Sticky float????
Left it a while then started it with the fuel off, got it running ok so left it running for a minute then switched fuel tap on. Let it get right up to temp then switched it off. Left fuel tap on for a while and no fuel leaking out so presume it was a sticky float that freed up with the vibration of the engine.
Just waiting on some new LED dash lights turning up as some of mine have started to fail then I can get the fairing back on and wait for some dry weather to get it out on a test run & decide if I need some risers. Will post up some finished pics when it's all back together.
Last thing will be to get some tyres sorted.
yep definatly a sticky float or a bit of crap stuck in the needle. had the same thing when i rode back from denmark the other year. stopped to check the map n saw petrol pourin out. just carried on ridin to save loosin loads. only prob was they wouldnt let me on the ferry :( so i jus kept tappin the carbs n evetually it stopped leakin, luckily
Cheers Rybes,
Just looked at weather and might get a break in the rain from tomorrow til sunday, so fingers crossed I can get out on it at the weekend.
what's the new trail dimension ?.................that's gonna be the determining factor in how it handles.
96mm is standard steamer spec.
I think you should be the forum test rider for these Michelin Road Angels :nod
i prefer the way my tiger handles now ive done this conversion. its abit twitchey at first but once id got used to it i wish it was always like this. not so slow or heavy to turn into bends. livin in a place full of twists and turns on the road and roundabouts :bad its suits perfect
Thing is the isle of Wight roads are quite rural and not very well surfaced so I don't get anywhere near the limits of the bike (my limits appear first). We do have 1/2 mile of dual carriageway - we call it 'the motorway'!!!! Only about half of it is national speed limit though.
I've got a virtually new Metzeler z6 on the 6 spoke that I'll chop over to the 3 spoke, so will probably get a rear to match. Even if I had some nice sticky modern tyres, they just get flattened on the centre around here so it never seems worth it.
whats the trail dimension now ?
No idea I'm afraid, not even sure how you measure it.
1/2 a mile of dual carriage way :bug_eye how do you handle such a fast road ? im sure early mornin tho must leave the roundabouts nice n empty
Quote from: GavD on January 09, 2014, 08:07:56 PM
No idea I'm afraid, not even sure how you measure it.
this is good reading and explains it and why it is so
using a std steamer front end with a 17 inch wheel mine only changed a little bit towards a more sport bike setup .(reduced trail)
this is also what needs to be done to improve steering on a sidecar bike , only you have to take out lots of trail
I'm curious what you ended up with as your pics make the bike look way too tall on the front end , as in an extended fork which will change everything .
http://blog.jpcycles.com/2010/06/motorcycle-frame-geometry-made-simple-how-your-motorcycle-handles/
BTW
96mm is the standard OEM steamer trail dimension
Bit of googling and some rough measurements using my spirit level and a piece of string and I've got somewhere between 87mm & 92mm. Bit vague I know, but has given me some idea. So it should steer a little quicker than the standard set up, but I've been running your cast wheel conversion using the steamer forks for a couple of years so it'll probably feel pretty similar to before.
i reckon the pics are deceiving because of the angle and because the bike is sat on a block there so the forks are fully extended.
now it's back down on it's wheels it feels about the same height. When i wheel it out into the daylight I'll take some side on pics and post them.
QuoteMotorcycle trail
The distance on the ground between a straight line drawn through the center of the front wheel spindle and a line drawn through the center of the headstock axis. The greater the trail distance, then the greater the straight line stability but the harder it is to make the bike corner.
http://bikearama.com/theory/motorcycle-rake-trail-explained/
Quote from: rybes on January 09, 2014, 08:57:57 PM
1/2 a mile of dual carriage way :bug_eye how do you handle such a fast road ? im sure early mornin tho must leave the roundabouts nice n empty
Yeah half a mile, sometimes i get it up to third gear :5moped
DO NOT plan a biking holiday here, you will be sorely disappointed.
i know mate. went there on holiday for 2 weeks as a kid. how the hell do ya live there ?
I spent part of my apprenticeship in White's in Cowes in the 70's there was still quite a cafe racer / rockers going on then. Went to work every day using the chain ferry from West Cowes. Remember riding a Goldie down the main street in Ventnor scared shitless I was going to drop my mates bike and embarrass myself into the bargain.
Anyway back OT. I would have thought the coat Road from Sandown would be a good test of how good your steering is. Unless the years have gilded my memories.
Sometimes it's nice to have a stretch of water between us and the real world. I'm a born and bred caulkhead (native) although I did escape a lot with the navy over the years. I live in west cowes and some of my older relations worked in Whites at various times.
Sin, your memory's ok, the coast road from Blackgang to Freshwater is the test track, but a bit rough in places.
Here we go then chaps, pics of it all back together. Can I ask a favour please of Rybes and Rf. Any chance of measuring your forks from fork top to centre of wheel spindle. I've ended up with 900mm spot on when the bike is on it's side stand, which is a bit more than I thought it'd be.
Thanks in anticipation
Gav
will do mate. im back on sunday so ill do it sun night or monday for ya. did ya use the sprint internals ? i used the tiger ones first time round n the forks were about 6 foot long lol
its lookin goo dtho mate. its hard to tell from the pics if the lenghts about the same cos ya high mudguard makes it look a lot longer. i like it :thumbsup :thumbsup
I used the sprint internals after reading your posts.
I have used some progressive steamer springs which are longer than the standard springs, but shorter than the standard spring plus the spacer that fits on top of them. So I made up some spacers to make the progressive ones as long as the standard + spacer. I think it's making it sit a bit high though. I'll wait till you measure yours, but i was thinking I could either remove the spacers or drop the yokes down the forks a bit.
Looks excellent mate :thumbsup funny but I think it makes it look 30kg lighter :icon_scratch:
I bet it don't feel it!
If anyone with a standard steamer could measure the forks from fork top to wheel spindle centre when the bike is on the side stand I'd be v grateful. Just to use as a comparison. Like a dummy, I didn't measure mine before I stripped it down.
from what i can remember mine felt slightly higher than it did from stock. think i got a set of standard forks too so ill measure them for ya too.
Quote from: GavD on January 11, 2014, 06:22:32 PM
I bet it don't feel it!
If anyone with a standard steamer could measure the forks from fork top to wheel spindle centre when the bike is on the side stand I'd be v grateful. Just to use as a comparison. Like a dummy, I didn't measure mine before I stripped it down.
95 steamer OEM triumph progressive springs .................on sidestand ,weighted with bikes weight , measured lefthand side .
812 mm from
axle center to fork tube top , not the cap also just the fork tube top
98 steamer sitting straight up with weight on it , traxxion reworked front forks ............. same ,
812mm axle center to fork tube top .
96 Steamer , Hagon Progressive springs, on side-stand , 855 mm, to axle centre, allow 1-2mm error for useless operator.
Thanks to mustang and Geoff, but there seems to be a big difference between yours :icon_scratch:
Rybes, I've still got my showas, which measure 890mm fully extended out of the bike.
I was going on an estimation of them compressing by 30-40mm under the bikes weight, but by mustangs measurements it looks like they sit down a bit more than that. Geoffs sounds about right. Got a quick run on it today and it did feel a bit more 'chopper' than before.
I've taken out the spacers I had made for it and it's now 10mm lower. I'll get out on it again and start tweaking it a bit to suit me.
Think I'll be needing some of those up and back risers too.
Gav, just measured mine, from top of the fork where it sits level flush with the yoke to axle centre is 93cm.
I have 1 inch spacers on top of the fork springs.
Yours might change a little as i see you still have the 18 inch rear wheel, where as mine has the Trophy 17 inch rear.
Looks good though. :thumbsup
Thanks, maybe it's just a case of getting used to it. I've got the chain adjusters flipped over to lower the rear at the moment, might flip them back to level it up again.
And then at some point get a tyre for the 17 wheel which will change things again. Looks like I've got a lot of tinkering and test rides coming up.
heres a pic of mine from the side. dont look much deiffernt to yours. i think yours looks taller cos of the mudguard and the fork gaitors
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af76/IM_Rybes/DSC02416.jpg) (http://s995.photobucket.com/user/IM_Rybes/media/DSC02416.jpg.html)
Ooops, just found I only had 25psi in the front tyre :bug_eye, might account for odd feeling from front end yesterday.
Started raining again so another spin around the block will have to wait.
I was comparing with your photos yesterday Rybes and you're right, it doesn't look much different. Have you got your fork tops level with the yokes?
the fork tops are but the fork plug is above the yokes. im leavin here tnite :icon_sad: so when i get back ill take some pics for ya
Thanks mate, you got pre-load adjusters then? I've just got standard caps. which are set level with the yokes.
Got the bike out for a 10 mile run in the fading light today, it definitely feels twitchier on the front end. It feels like it drops into slow corners. Above 25mph it feels better, but seems to follow and track any cracks in the road. Guess I just need to get used to it.
Anyway, it started to run a bit lumpy near the end, low down in the rev range, it sounded like it was misfiring on tickover and there was the smell of unburnt fuel. Switched off and left the fuel tap on, again fuel was dropping off the airbox LH side. Looks like I'll be getting the carbs out at some point in the near future. Wish I'd sat the tank back on her whilst I was doing the front end and started it occasionally instead of just leaving it for 6 weeks.
it's how much you altered the trail making it "twitchy"
pull those tubes up in the yokes about 20mm to get some of the bikes weight back on the front end
just stick with it and get used to it gav. once ya used to it youll be able to throw it about almost like a sports bike. i regularly get the center stand scrapin or me toes. what tyre pressure have ya got in it ? im on 42 rear 36 front. dont foget the tyres ya on now aint as flat as what used to be on there so thatllmake a differnce in the way it corners.
my forks are 930mm too but im afraid i lied to ya. mine aint flush at the top, they have 25mm stickin up through the top yoke not includin the fork cap. springs are hyper pro with i think the standard spacer in them
I was thinking of sticking my forks up through the yokes, but I'd have to chop some arcs into the plastic clock surround to be able to move the steering through to the locks. If yours are sticking up through by 25mm and are 930mm long, that effectively makes them roughly the same length as mine then at 900mm.
Gotta get the carbs sorted first anyway. Then think about the front end.
Just had another look, will have to cut an arc approx 3mm into the clock surround, so not too much. Might try dropping the yokes 20mm and give it a test run first before I actually cut the arcs out.
Just to add a comment on twitchiness. I fitted road orientated tyres instead of block tread to my 05 Girly and the change was shocking. That was without doing anything else to it. It felt like a knife-edge, dropping into turns and steering really quickly. However, a few miles and a few days getting used to it and it became awesome. Most noticeable once I thought about what was going on was the lack of weight on the inside bar when cornering. It needed a sustained counter steering push before the change. Afterwards, the bar weight was neutral meaning much sharper steering. Rybes is right, it'll grow on you.
I wouldn`t mess around with it too much before you get the 17 inch rear wheel fitted.
Mines not "twitchy" at all, although it took some getting used to compared with the original set up.
What measurement of air gap did you use in the forks?
As Rybes said, once you get used to it, it should handle like a sports bike!
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on January 14, 2014, 11:35:06 PM
Just to add a comment on twitchiness. I fitted road orientated tyres instead of block tread to my 05 Girly and the change was shocking. That was without doing anything else to it. It felt like a knife-edge, dropping into turns and steering really quickly. However, a few miles and a few days getting used to it and it became awesome. Most noticeable once I thought about what was going on was the lack of weight on the inside bar when cornering. It needed a sustained counter steering push before the change. Afterwards, the bar weight was neutral meaning much sharper steering.
nail on the head there mate
Cheers for the thoughts fellas, got a carb to sort out first which is doing my head in - I'll post about this later.
Fork air gap was 130mm as per haynes manual for steamer kayaba's. I've put 15w oil in, instead of 10w, i've got the Hagon progressive springs in with no spacers at the moment.
Tyres are 36psi front & 40 psi rear.
First of all, I've got keihins not the usual mikuni's.
Got into the carbs last night and found the LH one was filling up, but not stopping and fuel was coming out the back and into the airbox. Thinking back, when I was on my test run, I was getting some popping and banging on little or no throttle which was unusual and points to unburnt fuel in the exhaust. Anyway, got em out, rigged up the fuel tank on my bench and set about having a look.
1st strip, removed float and needle valve, nothing obvious visibly so gave it all a good clean including the hole the fuel fills through (used a tooth pick and a gentle twist with a phillips screwdriver to dislodge any gunk. Stuck it all back together - same.
2nd strip swapped over float and needle valve between centre and LH carb - same, LH carb not shutting off fuel. Put all the bits back to their original carbs.
3rd strip, left float bowl off and operated the float with fuel switched on, I could stop the fuel flow with finger pressure on the float. Bent the tab up slightly that applies the pressure to the valve stuck it all back together and although it still leaks a little, it's reduced it quite alot.
4th strip, bent tab again and this time it shuts off the fuel and when I crack open the float bowl, fuel comes out of the gap. Manual says fuel level should be 1.5mm above the mating surface of the float bowl.
Waiting on some clear tube to be delivered so I can check the height.
Checked the plugs, RH and centre are a nice brown colour, LH one is black, but not sooted up.
The only thing that worries me is that it was ok before, it's just been stood for 6 weeks so what would make it need to be adjusted?
Anyway, once I've set the fuel levels (might as well do them all while they're out) I'll get it back together then concentrate on the final touches for the 3 spokes.
Thanks again for everyone's input on my issues, i do appreciate it. Before the onset of the interweb thingy, there is NOOO WAY I would have tackled something like this.
Tramlining is your tyres, nothing else.
I`ve got the Mikuni`s on mine, if i leave it for 6 weeks the fuel goes off and clogs the carbs, meaning a strip down and clean.
Ok chaps, need some thoughts on the carbs now.
I've been tinkering and have got the float level sorted out just about on my iffy carb.
The haynes manual says the fuel level should be 1.5mm above the float bowl mating face.
I've checked all three using the clear tube method and the LH and centre carb line up approx level with the float bowl mating surface. The RH carb (which has been running ok and has caused me no problems) is approx 5mm below the line.
How critical is this level?
As long as the jets (or the tubes the jets screw into) are submerged in fuel surely it will work OK.
I've been watching alot of youtube about it and they mention a lot about the fuel level affecting the richness, I though the richness was purely down to the jet size and airflow.
Do I get into the RH carb and start adjusting too or should I leave well alone seeing as how that one has been causing me no problems?
I had 1 leaky carb on my bike recently which I cured by replacing the float to carb o rings ..... Im not sure if that was the actual problem but it worked .
In the tips section you will find the o ring sizes and I got all of them from work in bags of 50 for less than a tenner ........... If you struggle I can post you a handful
Quote from: chrisw on January 17, 2014, 10:53:42 PM
I had 1 leaky carb on my bike recently which I cured by replacing the float to carb o rings ..... Im not sure if that was the actual problem but it worked .
In the tips section you will find the o ring sizes and I got all of them from work in bags of 50 for less than a tenner ........... If you struggle I can post you a handful
his keihins are totally different than the mikunis you have ............won't be of any use to him
It does make a difference from my experience with older singles. I think the triple masks the effects but if you did a plug cut (stop the engine immediately on an on load run) you would notice it in the plug colours. That's not very practical doing it on the road side I know but it does work.
As I'm still waiting for my new carb rubber securing bands to turn up, I think I'll get into the RH carb this morning and try and get the level better.
Quote from: chrisw on January 17, 2014, 10:53:42 PM
I had 1 leaky carb on my bike recently which I cured by replacing the float to carb o rings ..... Im not sure if that was the actual problem but it worked .
In the tips section you will find the o ring sizes and I got all of them from work in bags of 50 for less than a tenner ........... If you struggle I can post you a handful
Thanks for the offer Chris but as Mustang says, they're not suitable for my keihins.
Ok a few hours to myself earlier and got the carbs sorted. All fuel levels now pretty much the same and steady. No fuel leaking out anywhere. Postie dropped in with the new bands for the carb rubbers and airbox rubbers so got it all slung back in, tank on and started her up. Straight away it sounded smoother on choke, and once she's warmed up settled into a nice smooth tickover. Sweet!!
Chucked in the 17" wheel on the back and took it for a little spin again. The tyres are the ones that came on the wheels and are both pretty much shot so gotta get that sorted out.
The handling feels like it did before and is a bit unnerving at slow speeds. It's when I turn into slow corners that I notice the biggest difference, I really have to put in alot of steering input, the bars turn alot more than they did before.
Still sounds like when I put non-blocked tyres on (Pirelli Scorpion Trails, which despite the name have a road-type tread). Since I went back to block tread I really noticed what's going on. Steering technique on block tread is countersteer, then body weight and countersteer in the turn, the countersteer being a fair bit of pushing pressure on the inside bar. With the road tread, it was more a bit of weight leaning in the direction of the turn then steer wher you want it to go rather than varying the countersteer. It's hard to describe, but it's what was happening. The steering was MUCH lighter.
you have lengthened your front end by almost 2 inches , std steamer forks are 885mm unloaded .
it makes a huge difference
pull the tubes up in the yokes to match what you extended the forks by , I bet the steering settles down for ya
read this ......it explains it all
http://chopperhandbook.com/rake.htm
Pretty much what I've just done in the last hour Mustang. I've removed the spacers I had made from the top of the fork springs and pulled the forks up by 20mm and I'm getting that familiar feeling back. It's not entirely like I had before but getting there.
I've now got 865mm from top side of top yoke to centre of wheel spindle, which is getting close to the measurement GeoffW made, but nowhere near your 812mm.
Maybe another 10mm for the next time and see what it's like then.
Quote from: GavD on January 18, 2014, 06:18:51 PM
, but nowhere near your 812mm.
I remeasured again for you and it's 825mm on two different stock steamers with the suspension loaded on the bikes weight .
must've been (http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/emoticons/5427.gif) the first time :ImaPoser
Doh :icon_redface:
Got my front tyre chopped over from the 6 spoke to the 3 spoke and with the forks up through the yokes by 30mm went for another spin. The tracking over the cracks (or tramlining as Sin put it) has gone and the steering feels pretty much as it did before. I've still gotta get a rear tyre sorted out, so I'm running with the 18" in the back at the moment, but once I've sorted that it'll be a little bit of fine tweaking with the forks to get to where I want it. Once the warmer weather comes back I might try a day out with the yokes back to level with the forks to see what that feels like on warm, dry roads.
Just need some up and back risers now to get the bars where I want them and I'll be happy.
Roll on spring!!
Cheers for all your input chaps, I'll post some more pics of the final product when I get the chance.
Getting there :thumbsup
I think I'm just about there now, got some Rox Risers which have bought the bars up and back a couple of inches which feels a bit more comfortable.
I've put the spacers back in the forks and have left them with 30mm sticking up through the yokes, just gotta get some decent weather now to get out and ride it.
Woulda gone out today, but I'm still suffering the effects of the demon drink after watching England snatch defeat from the jaws of victory yesterday against those damn Frenchies.
Anyway here's the final pics.
Now you know why us sweaty socks invented Whiskey :icon_rolleyes:
lookin good that is mate. nice to see you have some sun down there too. :thumbsup
Yeah, hadn't seen the big orange ball for a while. All's back to normal though, wind and rain coming back tonight!
Final post on this one I think;
After having a few problems with my carbs which I've now got sorted, I got round to getting a new tyre on the 17" rear. I've set the chain adjusters the right way up, and set the forks at 25mm up through the yokes. The bike is definitely a bit higher cos she leans over a bit more on the side stand and I feel a bit more on the balls of my feet when at standstill. Anyway, went for a spin and it felt GOOOOOOD. Front end feels stiffer and planted, and it holds a line well. Brakes are :bug_eye much better!! Altogether I'm well happy with the result and can't wait for the tarmac to warm up a bit more.
The carb probs I had, I think I've pretty much sorted, throttle response feels a lot crisper now and I get a lovely bit of popping and banging when I come off throttle.
glad its all sorted mate :thumbsup makes a big difference to the bike dont it. just wait till ya get used to it :bad
Indeed it does,
sorry to read about your 'issues'. Hope things go better for ya soon. Maybe that lump wasn't such a bargain after all.
glad ya likin it.
bloody engine, i knew i shoulda held out for a black one :icon_lol: