While I am waiting for the petcock epoxy to set up for a couple of days, I have been attending to some other jobs on the bike. I was pleased to see that all the valves were in spec, except the outside exhaust #1, which measured .009. I'm not bothering to change it for the sake of .001, but it will be interesting to see what it measures at the next adjustment. Just 19,000 miles on the bike, so it hasn't been run too hard apparently. The inside looked good and clean:
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-x336535/0/X2/20140526_151527-X2.jpg)
I hate RTV, and use the Blue Hylomar on the areas of the gasket that call for the silicone. The original rubber gasket was fine, so I have a new one on hand for future use. The gasket over the pick up coil was also fine, and just a thin film of Blue Hylomar over the top before it went back on.
The carbs had been apart before, as evidenced by the bodged up JIS threads that someone had taken a Philips to. Lots of gum inside:
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-TrtpLmD/0/X2/20140526_162209-X2.jpg)
The pilot screws were out 4 turns each, and the needles have notches and clips, so I am not sure if they are aftermarket? I need to re-read the carb cleaning thread, and label the O-rings I got from McMaster Carr. Everything cleaned up pretty well with spray cleaner, but the throttle cable was just loose at the carb end, as someone had broken off the threaded bolt that screws into the carb body, so I'll need to order one of those too.
The insides of these Mikunis are very different than the Keihins, and the float assemblies look extremely fragile. Probably aren't, but I'm handling them with great care.
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-Z4b3MnL/0/X2/20140526_162222-X2.jpg)
I looked in the service manual, but can't find a picture - isn't the hose coming off the air filter box supposed to have a plug in it for draining? Mine is just open to the air. Also, my crankcase breather hose from the airbox has no clamp of any kind. Is this correct?
Thanks!
Quote from: ssevy on May 26, 2014, 11:11:54 PM
I looked in the service manual, but can't find a picture - isn't the hose coming off the air filter box supposed to have a plug in it for draining? Mine is just open to the air. Also, my crankcase breather hose from the airbox has no clamp of any kind. Is this correct? Thanks!
Just did the valve check this weekend, too. My airbox hose has no plug to it as well, and it is not clamped... just dangles down with the other vent hoses.
that looks like sugar in those float bowls
Quote from: ssevy on May 26, 2014, 11:11:54 PM
The pilot screws were out 4 turns each, and the needles have notches and clips, so I am not sure if they are aftermarket? I need to re-read the carb cleaning thread, and label the O-rings I got from McMaster Carr. Everything cleaned up pretty well with spray cleaner, but the throttle cable was just loose at the carb end, as someone had broken off the threaded bolt that screws into the carb body, so I'll need to order one of those too.
The insides of these Mikunis are very different than the Keihins, and the float assemblies look extremely fragile. Probably aren't, but I'm handling them with great care.
I looked in the service manual, but can't find a picture - isn't the hose coming off the air filter box supposed to have a plug in it for draining? Mine is just open to the air. Also, my crankcase breather hose from the airbox has no clamp of any kind. Is this correct?no clamp just push fit , and the plug in the air box is usual for them to be missing
Thanks!
pilots at 4 turns out is too far on a mikuni . you need to go up 1 size on the pilots which will get you back to where the pilots only have to be out 1 1/2 to 2 turns
the needles on the mik's are notched with clips and when everything is fat happy and dumb the needle should be in the middle notch
@rybes .that aint sugar that's some fine ethanol fuel that has gone bad from standing around too long . sevy's bike ws obviously a garage queen and not used much b4 he got it .
Yuk :icon_mad: interestingly the was a short article in MCN a couple of weeks ago about the US EPA admitting that tests they have done confirm that ethanol was harmful to some engines, I'll see if I can find it as there was more technical stuff than just that.
Both my breather pipes had little sheet metal spring clips on both ends, as did the drain pipe on the one that was fitted. I've used little plastic protective bungs on the ends now, the type you get in the ends of copper tubing, not sure it makes a lot of difference.
If the airbox drain pipe don't have a plug it sucks air (unfiltered).
Quote from: JayDub on May 27, 2014, 05:34:03 PM
If the airbox drain pipe don't have a plug it sucks air (unfiltered).
That's pause for thought, especially as the end of the tube is dangling down in line with crud and mung that might be thrown up up the front wheel. I wonder how much 'suck' there is...
I spent both days of the weekend getting the Tiger back together. The first thing I did was thoroughly clean and rebuild the carbs. Ran around to a marina to buy some cans of BRP Engine Tuner, which is safe for rubber and plastic and really does a great job of cleaning the carbs. Got a plastic container at the dollar store, and sprayed/soaked the carbs and all the removed parts, then into a bucket of hot water, then blew everything off with the compressor. If my nose is trustworthy, I think the Engine Tuner is the same stuff as Gunk, as it turned the water milky white and smelled the same as Gunk does. It did a great job, though, and I recommend it as a safe way to clean carbs. The Mikunis are more fussy than the Keihins to rebuild, and one of their engineers must have relatives who sell O-rings, as I can't believe how many it required to rebuild. I got mine at McMaster Carr, and had them in just a few days. One new emulsion tube from Triumph, and three new bowl gaskets as well. I gently wire brushed the exteriors and sprayed them with Boeshield T-9, which I use on all of my firearms for corrosion protection. This stuff has kept my Legend carbs looking like new, and a clean bike is so much nicer to work on.
I replaced all of the rubbers for the carb and airbox, as they were dried out and had begun to crack. I used some of the Jack's grease on them, which is the same as bulb grease, and cleaned and never-seized the threads on the clamps. Everything slid into place easily, except that the fuel line was being flattened by the airbox crankcase vent hose, so I ran it up instead to come out on top of the carbs. The old fuel line was shot, so I had bought a new one at the auto parts store, and it had a bigger outer diameter, so this may have contributed to the tight fit. In any case, I hope that I don't have fuel feeding issues with the hose rerouted. The choke rubber covering was also shot, so I put two pieces of heat shrink tubing over the top, spraying the inside with Boeshield to stop the rusting. I did forget to install the spring when I rebuilt it, but the tension with the shrink tubing is such that I don't think it will move.
While I had access, I pulled apart every connector I could find and sprayed them with contact cleaner, blew them out with the compressor, and then put di-electric grease on them. There was no visible corrosion, but this is a good preventative.
Next was the rebuilt shock and forks. These went in without a problem, and I found that rather than using a scissors jack under the suspension to help line up the bolt holes (I was working alone), that a ratchet strap through the rear wheel and then over the seat frame worked great to get everything to line up just so. I also got the front wheel in the first time, sitting on a small stool and holding it between my knees as I got all the pieces in place. Having changed the tire several times on the Legend, I felt especially lucky to get this first try, as it can sometimes be a real bugger when you don't have anyone to help. Again, all bolts were wire brushed and then never-seized, although I was very lean around the brake areas, as I don't want to get any lube on the rotors or pads.
I then installed the new centerstand and crash bars, and these took a bit of fiddling, again mostly due to working solo and not having an extra pair of hands available. The crossover pipe under the engine was tricky to remove and install once the side plates for the centerstand were in place, as there isn't much clearance there. Putting it back together tonight, I put in each side separately, and then pivoted the two halves together and tapped them with a rubber mallet to join at the crosspiece. I had wire brushed all of the joints, so it slid back together pretty easily.
Tonight I made up a remote fuel bottle and installed the battery. She started right up on the first crank, so I guess I remembered all of the O-rings in the carbs! Set up the Morgan Carbtune and got all three cylinders dead on. Adjusting #1 is a pain to access with the screwdriver as it runs, so I had to shut it off, twist to full throttle to access the adjustment screw, then restart it and check it again. Like my Keihins, just a touch of the screwdriver makes a big difference in adjustment, so some delicate care is required to do this well. Once she was all adjusted, I put her on the side stand and drained the coolant. I run the Star Tron coolant in the Legend, and really like it, so I am putting that in the Tiger as well. Need to get another jug tomorrow to finish it off. I also replaced the headlight bulbs with the LED ones, and wow! They are so much brighter, and draw so much less juice. The only downside is that the rubber covers on the back no longer fit on, as these have built in cooling fans. I guess I'll see how long they will last.
The last thing I was going to do tonight was to install the two airbox side covers, but there is a problem. Lining up the two holes where I assume the screws go, there is a black round tab that sticks up right in the way of the panel. Unfortunately, I already threw out the old airbox, so I can't see if that had these tabs. Do I cut these off so the panels lie flat, or is there supposed to be a washer behind them? I didn't have any washers when I took them off, but I wasn't the first to do so, so they could have been lost. Can't find any pictures in the factory manual to help.
Here is the tab I am talking about:
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-hxZSBDr/0/X2/20140609_201824-X2.jpg)
So, just need to finish the coolant change, mount the tank and the fairing panels, aim the headlights, and mount the auxiliary lights. Unfortunately, the only location for these is the crash bars, and where they fit will offer them no protection, as they will stick out beyond the crashbars themselves. Will need to think about this one a bit. I decided to run the tank as is with JB Weld, and then when it begins to seep, I'll replace it with the other JB Weld stuff, and seal the inside at the same time.
Can't wait to try the rebuilt shock with the new spring, and the rebuilt forks.
Quote from: ssevy on June 10, 2014, 02:56:46 AMSet up the Morgan Carbtune and got all three cylinders dead on. Adjusting #1 is a pain to access with the screwdriver as it runs
Just did this myself. I found that with a long bladed screwdriver thrust through the gubbins around the carb from the top and angled back a bit (after using a flashlight to place the end) it was possible to turn the adjuster with the engine at tickover.
As you say, it only takes a small tweak to make a difference in the setting in the Carbtune.
Did you try to set the 'control' carb at the factory recommended mm of hg or did you just balance the carbs as they were?
Since the idle speed adjuster on the left hand of the carbs is just setting butterfly opening, I got a smooth idle around 900 rpms and then balanced the other two. I revved it up a few times and then rechecked when it had settled back to idle.
Oh also I meant the idle thumbscrew and cable for the forgotten spring, not the choke.
I installed a new airbox and I believe I just cut them tabs off.
You had me :icon_scratch: about the choke spring, glad you explained.
It took me buying about six long screw drivers before I found one that worked for No.1 carb, I have a great selection of long screwdrivers if anyone is in need :icon_lol:
I guess that tab / spigot might be for later airboxes, never seen that before. Just out of interest, does the intake side cover have one long self tappers in the middle of the vertical edge or two M5 screws?
Good write up mate :thumbsup
Two crappy screws with a Phillips head, which I am replacing with stainless hex head, as it is no place to get a screwdriver square to the head, and thus the threads have been rounded out by previous owners.
Okay, I'll cut the tabs off and get on with it tonight after work.
Yup, did the same :icon_rolleyes:. I ask because other 'boxes I've handled have had just one long self tapper that goes all the way through the filter into the main body of the box. The K&N's I've used all have had a single hole that matches that.
The last 'box I worked on had the two brass captives in the main body, I just drilled the K&N to match, put a dab of silicone in the original hole (even though it would be covered when clamped).
I did a few other mods but haven't gotten around to writing them up yet, I hope you don't curse me when I do :BangHead
I finally had another evening free to get some more work done on the Tiger.
The first thing I did was thoroughly drain and flush the coolant. Then I filled it with Star Cool, ran it until hot, and checked the level again. I kept taking it off the center stand and rocking it side to side to clear any air pockets as I was filling it. The Tiger is much easier to drain and fill than the Legend.
Here is my new remote fuel bottle set-up. Works really well. Notice the vent hole in the side. I only fill it about a quarter full, so when I flip the bottle and hang it, there is no leakage out of the vent. All the parts came from Autozone, off a display for small engine parts, except the Lucas bottle. I needed the tapered tip and removable cap of this type of container, so I bought something I could dump in the tractor or the car so as not to spend $8 on an empty bottle. :icon_wink:
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-SRJdX5g/0/X2/20140613_173038-X2.jpg)
Here's the entire remote set-up as I idled the bike to warm it up. By the way, the bike runs pretty well even when you forget to replace the rubber caps where the carbtune attaches. :icon_redface:
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-JFPbGJ3/0/X2/20140613_172956-X2.jpg)
Before everything gets hidden from view, here is a shot of the new Hotwires. They are not factory lengths, and so the three equal lengths have to be looped a bit so as not to put any undue stress on anything.
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-JLkhzCk/0/X2/20140613_173009-X2.jpg)
Here is a shot of the new LED headlights, first on low beam and then on high. Their output is really excellent!
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-HGwPvTx/0/X2/20140613_173022-X2.jpg)
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-DpTVdXK/0/X2/20140613_173406-X2.jpg)
And here is one of Mustang's excellent pegs, powder coated in gloss black.
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-cWZKgwR/0/X2/20140613_173438-X2.jpg)
When I put the fuel tank back in place, two problems were immediately obvious. The first was that the Pingel couldn't have the fuel pipe oriented straight back toward the carbs, as there would be no room for the hose to attach. The second thing was that I had to re-route the hose to come under the carbs, as the petcock was lower than the hose. So, I loosened the airbox and slid it back, re-routed the hose, and then reattached the airbox clamps. Installed the tank again, clearances were tight but workable, so I installed the inline filter and put some fuel in the tank. Hooray! No leaks (yet). Here's a shot of the area.
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-K7JBSRT/0/X2/20140613_201453-X2.jpg)
All that is left is to install the auxiliary lights, aim the new headlights and auxiliary lights, and then put the body panels back on. Looking at the chain and sprockets, they will likely be next on the list. I have a long trip coming up in late July and three weeks of August, so I want to be sure that the chain and sprockets are good for that.
Oh, I almost forgot to mention those side panels. Rather than cut off the tab on the airbox, I used a compass to swing two arcs to correctly locate a hole which I drilled in the panel itself. This gives you an index to better secure the panels when you put in the two screws.
Nice work SS!
all looking good :thumbsup
which led bulbs did you use for the headlights
Quote from: ram33 on June 14, 2014, 12:24:15 PM
all looking good :thumbsup
which led bulbs did you use for the headlights
http://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/3600-Lumen-H4-H6M-LED-Headlight-bulb-_p_83.html
Quote from: ssevy on June 14, 2014, 02:55:40 AM
Oh, I almost forgot to mention those side panels. Rather than cut off the tab on the airbox, I used a compass to swing two arcs to correctly locate a hole which I drilled in the panel itself. This gives you an index to better secure the panels when you put in the two screws.
Excellent tip :thumbsup (wish I could see the pics :icon_sad:
I'm interested to hear how things go with the underslung fuel hose, I'd considered that myself but just managed to squeeze a K&N filter in on the vertical with a bit of judicious trimming.
my fuel hose is routed under the carbs as it was the only way i could add a fuel filter without kinking the pipe.
been on a few runs and doesnt seem to be a problem at all
mines always gone under and never had a problem with it
I put mine above and now am having fueling problems occassionally..........grrrr
Finished, but still some kinks. Here's the rest of what I finished:
I wired in the auxiliary LED lights, using Posi connectors and Posi taps, with heat shrink over the top. They work great, and can easily be removed and reused if desired.
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-r6NKr5G/0/X2/20140614_140051-X2.jpg)
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-2pZnH4K/0/X2/20140614_140103-X2.jpg)
I mounted the lights in such a way that if I drop the bike, they will be mostly protected by the engine bars, and are tight, but not so tight as to not be able to pivot on impact. Hopefully, I'll never test this :icon_eek:
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-zB7sGWL/0/X2/20140614_140225-X2.jpg)
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-HKfQcXx/0/X2/20140614_140336-X2.jpg)
My buddy was at a local catheter plant when they were throwing out a bunch of heat shrink tubing which they were discarding, and he grabbed a bunch. Just the right size to slide the wires for the lights through, to prevent abrasion and produce a nice tight finished result
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-g8p7Svt/0/X2/20140614_175906-X2.jpg)
You can see how nice it slipped under the existing wire ties on the main frame tube, and how clean it leaves the battery box area
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-qFjMQk5/0/X2/20140614_175923-X2.jpg)
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-C7xvxqF/0/X2/20140614_175928-X2.jpg)
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-rScKQsM/0/XL/20140614_175933-XL.jpg)
One thing I discovered when pulling apart the connector to find a switched 12 volt feed was the frame tube running up the center was broken clean off and just rubbing. From the looks of the break, this was an old wound. Since I have no welding gear at home, I took it apart enough to drive a steel rod inside the hollow tube on bottom, and left about 4 inches sticking out the top which I slid the top tube onto. I will get it welded during the winter, but frankly I just want to ride this again, as I am sick of working on it.
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-wXjcHBK/0/X2/20140614_175950-X2.jpg)
Here are the finished shots, with the new engine bars and lights in place. I know that I sound like a broken record, but this is the best looking model Triumph ever built!
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-9JMsMXL/0/X2/20140615_082805-X2.jpg)
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-m6rrP3d/0/XL/20140615_082817-XL.jpg)
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-WwFbkzR/0/X2/20140615_082849-X2.jpg)
Now for the remaining issue. Tonight was the first test ride, and it starts, idles and runs beautifully up to a point. When I got on the slab to test its high speed response, I discovered that wringing it up to 8000 RPMs is great, but it soon begins to stumble and limp along. Adding the choke helps, so I am sure it is a fuel supply issue. If I keep it below 3500 RPMs, it runs just fine, and if I gradually go up to about 5000 RPMs, it will also run okay. As soon as you get on it and stay on it hard though, cylinder #1 drops out and you lose power fast. Pulling in the clutch lets you get a clean rev again, but as soon as the engine is back under load, it fumbles and farts around.
Pulling over, there is plenty of gas visible in the inline filter, but I am sure it just isn't keeping up with demand. The Pingel has the fuel pipe coming out parallel with the ground, and there is a decent kink in the fuel hose at that point, and again at the other end of the inline filter, where it has to bend and go under the airbox.
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-K7JBSRT/0/X2/20140613_201453-X2.jpg)
Looking online tonight, I found some 90 degree brass bends which will let me eliminate the kinks. The fuel filter I got has a 1/4 inch tit on each end, and I'm going to get one with bigger tits and a 90 degree bend built in.
The auto type fuel hose that is available locally is really large OD compared to the factory stuff from Triumph. I have seen the Helix tubing online which appears to be a smaller OD. Has anyone used this stuff? Basically, the exit pipe on the Pingel is creating all of these issues, but I'm thinking the 90 degree filter will be just the ticket.
I know what you mean, the local tube I got was just a fraction too big bore, hard to squeeze the clamps at that small a diameter, I was concerned about bending it also hence my questions about over V under plumbing. Haven't used the stuff you are referring to, I did look for some with preformed bends but couldn't find any in the size that was petrol resistant.
Catheter tubing :icon_lol:, nice I'll have to remember that when I'm in one of my anal moods :icon_wink:
Looking good :love10 even if it has got Girly front indicators :icon_mrgreen:.
Nice work! Where'd you get your aux lights?
Cyclops.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on June 16, 2014, 03:47:27 PM
Catheter tubing :icon_lol:, nice I'll have to remember that when I'm in one of my anal moods :icon_wink:
TMI.................. NOW i NEED EYE BLEACH FROM THE VISUAL i GOT FROM THAT STATEMENT :ImaPoser
Yeah, it didn't quite read the way I originally intended it to, sorry :icon_redface:
After Mustang confirmed my diagnosis of fuel starvation (it is so cool to own a bike that has a genuine Jedi Grand Master to answer questions!), I hunted down a smaller diameter fuel hose, and ditched the inline filter. I had to wait for a new duckbill filter from Triumph Detroit, as in my assembling and disassembling the original apparently went through a wormhole into another galaxy. In any case, I re-routed it up and over and was able to get a straight shot onto the Pingel by doing so. No more kinks, and once back together tonight, she ran up the interstate like her ass was on fire. Problem solved!
Here are some comparison shots of the auto fuel line I was originally trying to use, and the Helix fuel line I got from a bike shop:
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-XWGD33d/0/X2/20140624_211045-X2.jpg)
(http://ssevy.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-W64VSb9/0/X2/20140624_211028-X2.jpg)
So...here is a list of the recent teardown and what I accomplished:
1- Valve clearance check
2- Mikunis rebuilt (thanks for the McMaster Carr info and threads)
3- Throttle cable replaced (I then broke the new one in the same place at the base of the curved rigid carb end when I was replacing the new fuel line tonight, but it still works fine)
4- Pingel petcock installed (would not do this again)
5- All electrical connectors sprayed with cleaner and then dielectric grease before reconnecting
6- Center stand installed
7- Engine bars installed
8- Broken front support braced internally until I get a chance to weld it this winter
9- LED aux lights installed
10- LED headlight bulbs installed
11- Doubletake mirrors installed
12- New iridium plugs installed
13- New airbox installed
14- New airbox and intake rubbers installed
15- New Nology coils and Hotwires installed
16- Carbs balanced
17- Coolant flushed and new Star Cool coolant installed
18- Sump guard and Mustang pegs powder coated gloss black
19- Rear shock rebuilt with new Ohlins spring and internal components
20- Forks rebuilt with all new seals and stouter spring and heavier oil (note: Intiminators are not a good match for this bike)
21- New rubber shifter lever cover
Things completed when I bought it last summer:
1- New Moose handlebars
2- New grips and bar end weights
3- New Galfer dual front brake lines
4- New windscreen
5- LED instrument bulbs
6- LED flashing brake bulbs
7- New Shinko tires and new tubes with Dynabeads
8- New Motobatt battery
Over the winter:
1- Renazco seat
Things still left:
1- Chain, sprockets and rubbing block(?)
2- Clutch rod and shifter seals
Good to read a result like that after all teh hard work you've put into it :thumbsup
Just so I am clear, the "Helix" fuel hose is the one on the right with thinner wall and no fibre reinforcing?
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on June 25, 2014, 10:53:38 AM
Good to read a result like that after all teh hard work you've put into it :thumbsup
Just so I am clear, the "Helix" fuel hose is the one on the right with thinner wall and no fibre reinforcing?
Yes sir.
Just another update. I did a nice 400 mile loop today, and the bike ran as smooth as silk. The Pingel tap needed to be switched to reserve at 281 miles, and I was thinking how fantastic my mileage must be. Then at 289 miles, I ran out of gas. So...I may have gotten some JB Weld on the pickup screen of the reserve side when I installed it The bike took about 6.2 gallons to fill, and this didn't include the quart or so I got from the guy whose driveway I coasted into in search of some gas.
I passed a guy on a new BMW 1200 GS that had every farkle possible, and I could not help but smile thinking that he paid more for his luggage set up than I did for my entire bike! Wouldn't have swapped him even for my Tiger!
PS- I checked my mileage once I filled it, and I got 48.6 mpg just cruising between 60 and 65 mph. My tach shows exactly 4000 rpms at 60 mph by the way.
The reserve on the Pingel tap only holds 1 litre which is roughly 1/4 uk gallon, so your 10 miles on reserve sounds about right.