I bought the bike March 2014 with 39,400 miles it now has 42,500 miles.
I did a 2500 mile oil change interval and the level went from the top mark to just below the bottom mark. There are no oil leaks the bike lives in the garage and does not mark it's spot. The only visible smoke is on the occasional cold start and overrun, nothing noticeable under power. The cold start has a slight haze to the exhaust this is not consistent though some days it's hazier than others. The overrun is the most noticeable after a down hill coast off throttle when you get on the throttle there is a not so nice puff of blue which is usually valve seals.
I don't have a problem with an engine using some oil I think in my case this is excessive and points to a problem I should fix. I don't like the puff of blue after a down hill run and I think this may be the reason for the oil usage. I have decided to remove the cylinder head, see what's going on and repair as necessary the tear down started today.
First pic shows marking wiring and coil locations, second pic shows the first sign of something wrong :icon_eek: #1 on left #3 on right, these were new at 39,400 miles. Next was a compression check, engine cold, all spark plugs out and throttle wide open #1 145psi, #2 70psi and #3 70psi. I think Tiger is sicker than I thought, stay tuned for more.
Ummm
that one on the right looks like a glow plug
Quote from: motoOzarks on December 06, 2015, 03:12:26 AM
Ummm
that one on the right looks like a glow plug
Yea... I think your gap might be set too wide. :icon_eek:
I hope the broken tip didn't fall into the cylinder............... :augie
Sadly, not many other places it could have gone.....
With luck it might have been blown out of the exhaust.
Mind you, rereading your compression figures I wouldn't be hopeful.
I did another compression test this morning after pouring a bit of gear oil in each cylinder:
#1
145 psi dry.
180 psi wet.
#2
70 psi dry.
110 psi wet.
#3
70 psi dry.
100 psi wet.
Since the increases are roughly the same I'm thinking it might be a valve problem vs rings, stay tuned.
(http://forums.sxoc.nl/public/style_emoticons/default/popcorn.gif)
Hate to sound like the dour Scot but I'd be ordering a head gasket set now.
Got a magnet?
Is that electrode stuck in a valve/train/spring causing weird compression values?
Seriously dude, did that come out without an electrode?
Find the pieces
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on December 06, 2015, 11:15:17 PM
Hate to sound like the dour Scot but I'd be ordering a head gasket set now.
I already have the oem Triumph top end gasket kit sitting on the bench :thumbsup
Quote from: motoOzarks on December 07, 2015, 01:05:44 AM
Got a magnet?
Is that electrode stuck in a valve/train/spring causing weird compression values?
Seriously dude, did that come out without an electrode?
Find the pieces
Yup plug came out minus electrode I have never seen that before I have seen plugs embedded with shrapnel and the electrode smashed into the porcelain. The head is coming off so no need for a magnet.
I had the bike idling in the driveway the night before I started tearing it apart and it started and ran fine :^_^
Work continued today.
Bike got further stripped down, carbs removed, airbox removed, coolant drained, radiator removed and head cover removed. The good news is there is no sign of sludge or grunge collecting in the corners of the head all the cam lobes have no scoring and look perfect and the cam timing was bang on. I was going to remove the head but i need a better set of male Torx bits as the ones I have are crap and I don't want to risk stripping bolt heads.
Unusually, the cylinder head bolts are re-usable. You'll need blue Hylomar to seal the liners when you put them back.
Have you removed the bolt at the front left bottom of the barrel casing to drain the rest of the coolant? Not the end of the world if you haven't, but less to go into the crankcase later. Don't drain the oil till you have it all apart so that, if any coolant goes into the bottom casing, the oil will protect the moving bits until you drain the oil and coolant when you're done.
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on December 07, 2015, 01:54:11 PM
Unusually, the cylinder head bolts are re-usable. You'll need blue Hylomar to seal the liners when you put them back.
Have you removed the bolt at the front left bottom of the barrel casing to drain the rest of the coolant? Not the end of the world if you haven't, but less to go into the crankcase later. Don't drain the oil till you have it all apart so that, if any coolant goes into the bottom casing, the oil will protect the moving bits until you drain the oil and coolant when you're done.
I have not drained the oil yet I did drain the cylinders as you suggested and was surprised at how much coolant came out. Blue Hylomar on order.
And for tonights installment of rip your Tiger apart:
I got the cylinder head off and the first thing I noticed was the disgusting condition of the coolant side of the liner and barrels the sludge in the coolant passages was nasty and needs a good clean up. The other surprise was no sealant at all on the base of the cylinder liners why I did not have milky oil is a mystery maybe oil was seeping into the coolant which would explain the condition of the coolant side of things. The pistons have some minor scuffing which is to be expected with this mileage I am surprised by the lack of blow by on the piston sides down to the first ring. The valves have a lot of carbon build up. In the following pics nothing has been cleaned yet parts are as they came off the bike you can see the damage to the piston and head on #3 cylinder due to lack of a spark plug electrode. Head, pistons and liners are going to the machinist in a few days to get everything checked out then I need to place another parts order.
I remember a ride during the summer when it was quite hot out I was cruising along about 70kmh when out of nowhere the bike was suddenly down on power had a very rattley diesel sound that lasted about 5 seconds then proceeded to run normally thinking back this was probably the #3 electrode falling into the cylinder and getting spit out the exhaust.
Quote from: Sparky on December 08, 2015, 06:20:36 AM
you can see the damage to the piston and head on #3 cylinder due to lack of a spark plug electrode.
Yup. The little blighter must have danced a jig in there for quite a few revolutions before getting spat out!!
<no popcorn smilie> Following with interest.
Question : You are low on pressure on two of the three cylinders. No3 can be explained, certainly w.r.t damage caused by electrode, but that doesn't explain the second cylinder's low pressure. Certainly damaged was caused in No3 but that being the cause of the low compression is debatable at this point and doesn't fully explain the oil loss imo as the rings haven't broken. Can you show pics of the barrels interior. It would be interesting to see if your "dieseling" moment wasn't actually a mild sieze and you'be rubbed the honings off. Certainly one piston looks like it has sieze damage rather than particulate damage.
Bbbbbrrrrrrr, ting ting ting, Bbbbbrrr. I think you found what happened :nod Hope the valves survived, piston looks useable, how do the liners look?
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on December 08, 2015, 03:27:02 PM
, piston looks useable,
:bug_eye I'd measure it up. It has some lateral wear patterns that look decidedly iffy to me. I really suspect a mild seize being the root cause of the OP's original concern.
Quote from: BruKen on December 08, 2015, 04:46:49 PM
:bug_eye I'd measure it up. It has some lateral wear patterns that look decidedly iffy to me. I really suspect a mild seize being the root cause of the OP's original concern.
I'm with BruKen on this one. I would make sure
all of your wear surfaces were all in service limits.
Sin, the OP has posted high res pics that the board has downsized. Click on the piston pic. Notice the wear pattern is much more than a mild scuffing. Oil retaining hone / hatch marks are absent and the ali looks as if it has mild friction rubbing deformities where the ali has been pulled, rather than particulate scratchings. (more obvious on the edges of the wear near the gudgeon pin) If this is mirrored on the barrels then I'd stake money on a mild sieze. Next question is to determine why it seized.
When I did YAPI also in the 40k mile mark the hatchings were still very prominent
Quote(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/brucekennedy/iTookThisOnMyPhone%20Private/IMG00422-20100328-2146.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/brucekennedy/iTookThisOnMyPhone%20Private/IMG00421-20100328-2112.jpg)
Fair point, hence my asking about the barrels. I did say 'usable' rather than good, depends what you want to spend. Good point about two cyl rather than just one.
<ribbing mode - on>
I think that Scots heritage is coming into play :ImaPoser Betcha you begrudge changing tyres come MOT when there's 2mm of tread left and you think to yourself - if I had only come in a month earlier I could scraped through with an advisory and ridden those down to the windings before next year's MOT :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
Measurements will show. I hope I eat humble pie for OP's sake though. Damn Tiggers can get expensive
Quote from: BruKen on December 08, 2015, 12:20:53 PM
<no popcorn smilie> Following with interest.
Question : You are low on pressure on two of the three cylinders. No3 can be explained, certainly w.r.t damage caused by electrode, but that doesn't explain the second cylinder's low pressure. Certainly damaged was caused in No3 but that being the cause of the low compression is debatable at this point and doesn't fully explain the oil loss imo as the rings haven't broken. Can you show pics of the barrels interior. It would be interesting to see if your "dieseling" moment wasn't actually a mild sieze and you'be rubbed the honings off. Certainly one piston looks like it has sieze damage rather than particulate damage.
It might be a light seizure this area of expertise is above my pay grade that's why everything is going to the machine shop. I'll get some more pics up later tonight.
I have more experience with two stroke seizures which are a lot more spectacular and leave not doubt as to what happened.
now if the steamer were a 2 stroke...... :wheel :notworthy
They're no worn, they're ma racing tyres pal :icon_razz: got back from Phucket one trip and the rear looked more like a carpet than a tyre :icon_redface:
That piston doesn't look quite so good from that angle :icon_eek:
Those be 2 stroke pistons Sin. No oil ring see. He's pulled the wool over your eyes you daft bugga.
Yup they are out of a 787cc Rotax engine in a Seadoo PWC. Typical two stroke zipping along thinking wow this thing is running great today then it went from max rpm to stall in about 5 sec and I knew exactly what happened. Turned out the rear carb was a little light on the main jet and therefore my wallet was a little lighter after top end #2 :BangHead
The lack of Hylomar is odd :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:
The valve seat land should be 0.5 - 0.75mm when you come to check them.....
Any sign of leakage on the head gasket???
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on December 09, 2015, 12:26:47 AM
The lack of Hylomar is odd :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:
The valve seat land should be 0.5 - 0.75mm when you come to check them.....
Any sign of leakage on the head gasket???
Lack of Hylomar is not good lack of any sealant at all is worse. No signs of head gasket leaks the coolant level never went down.
Look what showed up today all nice and shiny and black. "What dear no it's not new I have had that for oohhhh hours now :bad"
It's hard to get good lighting for the cylinders here's the best I could do this is the worst cylinder looks are deceiving as the marks look bad but you cannot feel anything with your finger nail and a light hone would probably make them go away.
:icon_rolleyes: in my defence it was 04:50 I couldn't sleep. Gonnie no dae that :icon_razz:
What you doing up at that time then?
Anyway back to OP. The latest round of pics do not seem to show the same level of damage as the original. :icon_scratch:
Regarding honing of barrels. Just dont be tempted to do them yourself. There is actually a art to it. Everything in the latest round of pics seems marginal and I am all out of advice now. Think maybe it's time for trades advice and opinion.
Quote from: BruKen on December 09, 2015, 10:36:04 AM
What you doing up at that time then?
I was counting stroker pistons jumping out of liners to try to help me :sleepy1 :icon_wink:
OT
:iagree If you have the option to get the liners hard line honed then do it, even with years of experience I would not do it myself without the proper gear. These spring loaded "honing" tools sold in tool stores are only good for light glaze removal at best, that's not the issue you have.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on December 09, 2015, 07:50:15 PM
If you have the option to get the liners hard line honed then do it.......These spring loaded "honing" tools sold in tool stores are only good for light glaze removal at best....
Never having seen this done, what is the difference in the tools used in the different honing techniques?
(http://www.normanmachinetool.com/products/03_07_12_5187-SUNNEN_HONE_MBB1650_3.jpg)
this is what a true hone is , and what most shops use
(http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/hone.jpg)
this is the flying stones of death Sin was referring to
Take a look inside your barrels and notice the counter rotating spirals that make the cross hatching. Apparently the spirals, depth of spiral and density of spiral are actually rather precisely engineered to retain oil but not induce wear or break the seal. Its not a random scuffing. You have absolutely zero chance of replicating that with the DIY glase buster jobbie which should never be used either. Glazing is largely myth unless you love running the engine on idle, cold and for very short periods and nothing else. It makes for lovely bogeyman stories though.
spring hones are for brake cylinders, some two stroke quickie stuff cause ya can, lawn mower etc.
or something you can't bring to the machine
Sorry :icon_redface: back on topic..... :icon_study:
Couldn't you replace pistons and liners? Would these fit?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-900-Carburettor-Model-Engine-Pistons-Liners-Fits-Trophy-Trident-Sprint-/371503019839?hash=item567f4e373f:g:0xYAAOSwv-NWZVnd
New liner and piston kit ..£125x3
Quote from: BruKen on December 09, 2015, 10:08:38 PM
Take a look inside your barrels and notice the counter rotating spirals that make the cross hatching. Apparently the spirals, depth of spiral and density of spiral are actually rather precisely engineered to retain oil but not induce wear or break the seal. Its not a random scuffing. You have absolutely zero chance of replicating that with the DIY glase buster jobbie which should never be used either.
:nod
Quote from: BruKen on December 09, 2015, 10:08:38 PM
Glazing is largely myth unless you love running the engine on idle, cold and for very short periods and nothing else. It makes for lovely bogeyman stories though.
:iagree certainly not common on mainstream petrol engines. However, wrong LO, wrong injector pattern, wrong turbo intercooler temp at low load and within 500 hrs of new liner and rings you can go from a LO cons of 25 ltrs per day to over 300 ltrs per day, first hand experience ('twas a bit bigger diesel engine though) :augie got photos somewhere of the bores looking like the bottom of your Mums Treacle Toffee tray.
Anyway, that's not what's going on here so back OT.
You'll be needing new rings and probably at least one new piston, get the rings first if that's the way you go and use the new rings to check for wear on your existing pistons. You might feel a full new set is worth it, end of the day you have to decide what the bike is worth to you if you're going to keep it or someone else as the bill could end up running away from you. Threepot's suggestion might work out cheaper in the long run, time to sit down with your phone, a calculator and pencil and paper.
I feel for you as this is a very uncommon situation and didn't really deserve to happen to you :BangHead
Some people really get into their work
I have used this machinist in the past he is a one man show and works out of a shop on his property the shop has all the usual looking machinist stuff and it's spotless. He has half a dozen different bikes in the corner one of them being a mint condition Suzuki 750 water buffalo.
Some very preliminary info after talking with him and a cursory look at the parts.
He felt the oil consumption was a combination of numerous things adding up, the valve stems showing carbon build up due to leaky valve seals, the piston ring end gap was on the large side of spec, the carbon on the piston head and the burn pattern on the piston crown. Pic shows the burn pattern the clean areas near the edge ( I marked in red ) are caused by oil passing the rings. In the right light you could see the outline of a piston on the cylinder wall which is probably because the bike had sat for a long time without being run. The intake valves show signs of recession into the seats. The good news is the liners would easily clean up with a hone, none of the rings were stuck in the grooves and the pistons show no signs of overheating or detonation damage.
I asked about the spark plug electrode and he said it's not uncommon to have one fall off especially on the cheapo plugs he was surprised when I said it was NGK.
I left him with the Triumph manual and he is going to strip the head to check the valve guides, valve faces and valve seats. The cylinders, pistons and rings will all get checked to see what needs replacing.
I will report his findings in the next few days.
This is all very interesting stuff.
On a similar note I have just taken the head off my '77 Suzuki GS750 which displayed a significant oil leak from somewhere, but no evidence of oil being burnt in the combustion chamber. The PO reported that the bike was running just fine when he parked it in '92/'93, but the combustion chambers and the crowns of the pistons look just like that. Hmmmmm.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on December 09, 2015, 11:54:35 PM
:iagree certainly not common on mainstream petrol engines. However, wrong LO, wrong injector pattern, wrong turbo intercooler temp at low load and within 500 hrs of new liner and rings you can go from a LO cons of 25 ltrs per day to over 300 ltrs per day, first hand experience ('twas a bit bigger diesel engine though) :augie got photos somewhere of the bores looking like the bottom of your Mums Treacle Toffee tray.
Yes, diesel is a bit different. I am loathe to idle mine without load. Soon as I start the boat engines I'm in gear, even if it means dragging the pontoon a bit.
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/brucekennedy/20151003_151800.jpg)
Here is report from the machinist.
Cylinder sleeves are within spec, pistons are within spec ring end gap is too big. With a light hone the piston to cylinder clearance is .004 which he feels is too much problem is everything is in spec and the manual does not give an acceptable piston to cylinder clearance so if anyone knows this or can comment on the .004 number please do. As a comparison two stokes are set up at .004 to .006 and most new jap four strokes are .001 to .0015 when new.
All of the valve guides are out of spec and the intake valves need replacing, exhaust valves can be reused. The manual tells you to buy a new head if it needs guides, not happening ! I will make some calls on Monday to see if I can get aftermarket guides and possibly valves I can get the valves from Triumph but they are $$$$. If anyone knows where I can get replacement guides please let me know.
Stay tuned I'm not done yet.
you can't buy guides for triumph heads
they are installed using a special process triumph uses
only cure is head replacement
your also going to find that new intake valves are not going to last long as the seats have been pounded into the head and you
will run out of adjustment within a couple thousand miles
search for old jet doxc posts he went thru the same shit , his bike was the same color too !
your only option is to replace the head :nod
How about having valve guide liners fitted? http://cylinderheadshop.com/k-line-guide-liners/ http://www.hthoward.co.uk/engine-machining-services/how-do-ht-howard-ensure-the-best-for-your-cylinder-head/bronze-valve-guide-sleeving/
Quote from: Sparky on December 13, 2015, 01:52:39 AM
Here is report from the machinist.
Cylinder sleeves are within spec, pistons are within spec ring end gap is too big. With a light hone the piston to cylinder clearance is .004 which he feels is too much problem is everything is in spec and the manual does not give an acceptable piston to cylinder clearance so if anyone knows this or can comment on the .004 number please do. As a comparison two stokes are set up at .004 to .006 and most new jap four strokes are .001 to .0015 when new.
All of the valve guides are out of spec and the intake valves need replacing, exhaust valves can be reused. The manual tells you to buy a new head if it needs guides, not happening ! I will make some calls on Monday to see if I can get aftermarket guides and possibly valves I can get the valves from Triumph but they are $$$$. If anyone knows where I can get replacement guides please let me know.
Stay tuned I'm not done yet.
I would be hoping for 0.0025" - 0.0030" @ 20 deg C for this size of bore, so I think he's right. Power Pack (Liner / piston / rings) might be a more economical / lower risk option, not sure about the Triumph packs but they usually come with new gudeon pins and clips (recommended). Don't forget the dealers are clearing NOS at the moment so there are deals to be had.
:iagree about the head guides, they were shrunk in and pushing them out destroys the interference fit. I've no experience of the inserts Ian's suggested but it might be worth investigating if finding a head proves difficult, there are plenty in circulation, whether they're in your area is another :icon_scratch:
Quote from: Sparky on December 13, 2015, 01:52:39 AM
Here is report from the machinist.
Cylinder sleeves are within spec, pistons are within spec ring end gap is too big. With a light hone the piston to cylinder clearance is .004 which he feels is too much problem is everything is in spec and the manual does not give an acceptable piston to cylinder clearance so if anyone knows this or can comment on the .004 number please do. As a comparison two stokes are set up at .004 to .006 and most new jap four strokes are .001 to .0015 when new.
Gah! dont do imperial. Metric are such. Sounds like you are in tolerance
Liners 1&3 - 76.03 to 76.05mm
Liner 2 - 76.04 to 76.05 mm
Piston OD (measured 5mm up from skirt at 90 deg to piston pin axis:
Piston Bore 1 & 3 - 75.96 to 75.98 mm
Piston Bore 2 - 75.97 to 75.98 mm
Quote from: BruKen on December 14, 2015, 12:36:29 PM
Gah! dont do imperial.
Easy way to remember is that 1mm is near enough .040"
I stopped by the machine shop yesterday to check the carnage and the intake valves are so recessed into the head that the valve edge can be used as a pizza cutter and the valve face that meets the head is about 2mm wide. Sorry forgot to take pics.
I emailed Clive Woods and he recommended Ivan at National Triumph in Wolverhampton for parts. I'm waiting on some pics from Ivan he said he's got about 10 good 885 heads in stock at 49 pounds plus shipping the price is very reasonable.
Work continues in other areas, forks removed for fresh oil and regrease the steering head bearings bike looks like a prop out of the latest Star Wars movie.
Even totally stripped and naked a Steamer has an aura of purposeful-ness about it.
Quote from: nickjtc on December 15, 2015, 07:20:50 PM
Even totally stripped and naked a Steamer has an aura of purposeful-ness about it.
yes it does
A PURPOSEFUL PILE O' PARTS
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/50k%20service%20tigger%204/DSC_1120.jpg)(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/50k%20service%20tigger%204/DSC_1119.jpg)(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/50k%20service%20tigger%204/DSC_1118.jpg)
:ImaPoser :ImaPoser :ImaPoser
Hi Sparky,when you say the valves have recessed into the head,do you mean actual valve wear,or that the valve seats have actually 'sunk' into the head? I think my Super3 has this problem?? 3 intakes on 'negative' clearance last time I checked!
Quote from: threepot on December 15, 2015, 09:49:28 PM
Hi Sparky,when you say the valves have recessed into the head,do you mean actual valve wear,or that the valve seats have actually 'sunk' into the head? I think my Super3 has this problem?? 3 intakes on 'negative' clearance last time I checked!
The valve is wearing not the seat in the head. There is so much wear that the valve contact area has widened and the edge of the valve is sharp like a pizza cutter. Looking at the head on the work bench the exhaust valves are slightly raised off the seats where the intake valves are almost flush. I'll post some pics when I have been back to the machine shop. This would also show up as constantly tightening intake valve clearances when checked over time I have owned the bike less than a year so I did not have the ability to monitor this over time. I'm also curious if once the wear on the valve starts the wear accelerates exponentially. I also wonder if this is the reason for the low compression numbers as the intake valves might have been slightly open on compression.
Stay tuned.
I had a reply to this on another site recently,and he mentioned Triumph had a batch of poorly manufactured valves,and a new set would cure this problem? Don't know how much truth in that? I also spoke to Clive Wood,and I'm sure he said the fuel softens them? And you never get a problem with the exhaust,of which all mine were in spec!
I was concerned that it is a valve seat issue .
And when you 'lap' them in,don't overdo it,just a couple of turns!
Goes along with what CLive said on the course. He's familiar with valves wearing but not valve seats. As Threepot says and again a Clive quote "valve land should be 0.05mm, 0.75mm max".
You lot are getting great value for my 75 quid no????
Of course it's what we're good at in Tigger Triple....getting value out of someone else's £75
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on December 16, 2015, 11:07:27 PM
Goes along with what CLive said on the course. He's familiar with valves wearing but not valve seats. As Threepot says and again a Clive quote "valve land should be 0.05mm, 0.75mm max".
You lot are getting great value for my 75 quid no????
the seats don't wear out , it's more like they get
work hardened and will destroy a new set of intakes within a couple thousand miles .
there is a guy in Texas that will cut your seats just enough to get under the work hardened layer, it's not cheap though .
if you can make a thunderbird sport head fit (the differences is where the screws attach at the cam chain tunnel ) then Triumph are still listing brand new bare heads for £89
https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/6072/thunderbird-sport/cylinder-head-and-valves (https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/6072/thunderbird-sport/cylinder-head-and-valves)
Does anyone make aftermarket valves for the t3/4's ? In Titanium??? :augie
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on December 16, 2015, 11:07:27 PM
You lot are getting great value for my 75 quid no????
And not all of us are Scottish :ImaPoser
New / used cylinder head is on it's way thanks to Ivan at National Triumph in Wolverhampton, 100 pounds shipped across the pond is worth a gamble me thinks !
Quote from: Sparky on December 18, 2015, 02:11:28 AM
And not all of us are Scottish :ImaPoser
You wish :icon_razz:
Progress report:
Well the new head arrived from National Triumph and the machinist gave it a thumbs up the head will get the seats lapped and new valve seals installed. Price was 98 pounds shipped from Wolverhampton to the West Coast of Canada, total Canadian after UPS fees was $240.00 which is a great deal in my opinion. Pics below show the new parts starting to stack up and some pics of the old intake and exhaust valves you can see the normal contact area on the exhaust valve and the sharp edge on the intake valves as they have been deformed by the valve seat. No wonder the compression was so low looking at the state of intake valves. I'm now waiting on a new set of piston rings before engine assembly and the rear shock which got sent off for a rebuild before I can reinstall the swing arm and linkage.
Quote from: threepot on December 15, 2015, 11:20:11 PM
I had a reply to this on another site recently,and he mentioned Triumph had a batch of poorly manufactured valves,and a new set would cure this problem? Don't know how much truth in that? I also spoke to Clive Wood,and I'm sure he said the fuel softens them? And you never get a problem with the exhaust,of which all mine were in spec!
I was concerned that it is a valve seat issue .
And when you 'lap' them in,don't overdo it,just a couple of turns!
Mine too. Caught it at 86,000km when the starter sprag was replaced. Now at 130,000.
That was quick and very reasonable :thumbsup I suspect the bike has had a harder life with a PO and/or poor fuel for a period. This is a nice thread (if a wee bit spendy) :new_popcornsmiley
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on December 23, 2015, 01:21:13 PM
This is a nice thread (if a wee bit spendy)
Yes, very interesting. I've never seen a valve end up with that profile before. Makes me wonder how it would have ended up if the bike had kept running....
Back to working on the bike now after the holidays.
I was waiting for parts from Triumph and the machine shop was shut down until Jan 4th so I picked up the head and sleeves this afternoon, the head got the valves and seats cleaned up, new valve seals and the sleeves got a light hone. I ordered new piston rings, grudgeon pins and circlips. First pic is the sleeves with a nice hone on them next two pics show a tip I learned from my two stroke days after a hone or bore on a steel cylinder there is always residual oil, cutting fluid, mud or whatever embedded in the surface so I use ATF on a clean rag to wipe the bores down and you can see the ATF discolor as it cleans the surface. Spent some of the evening cleaning parts ready for assembly, next step is to set the valve clearance while the head is on the bench.
I am glad to read, pictures #2 and #3 are not your bodily fluids. :rock
I managed to get the cylinder head installed today.
A few things to point out:
1) The ring spacer on the third piston ring has to go on first then the upper and lower scrapper rings.
2) Make sure to plug any holes in the crankcase while installing the circlips if one goes AWOL into the crankcase you have a situation on your hands.
3) I installed one circlip with the piston on the bench and the second one after installing the pin as there is not a lot of room to work.
4) Use temperature to your advantage I put the pins in the freezer for a few hours and they slid nicely into the pistons and rods with swearing or excessive force, read big hammer.
5) Leave the liners about 1/8" above the block and let the cylinder head bolts push the liners into position. Triumph put a nice bevel at the bottom of the liners so the piston rings slid in nice and easy without the use of a ring compressor.
6) Check and double check the TDC and cam timing marks before installing the timing chain.
The bike is starting to look like a bike again and not an abandoned carcass.
Beginning to look like brand new.... good job!!
Well I'm happy to report the Steamer is back together and running no road test yet as the weather is crappy and I have no insurance. After about 1K miles I will check the valve clearance and compression readings and report my findings this should give the new rings time to seat properly.
The top end rebuild was part of a larger project to go through the bike front to back and add a few farkles, this is what was done:
- Check front wheel bearings and replace all seals.
- Repack steering head bearings.
- New fork oil, 12.5W filled 130mm from the top.
- LED dash lights, all except low fuel and clock, forgot to order the clock bulb :BangHead
- LED fog lights.
- Oxford heated grips.
- Fuzeblock to power the accessories.
- New battery and cables, ground and starter cables.
- Rear shock serviced and recharged.
- Rear suspension bushings greased and seals replaced.
- Check rear wheel bearings and replace all seals.
- New rear brake pads.
- New chain and sprockets.
- Sprocket shaft, clutch push rod and shift shaft seals.
- New chain slider block under the swing arm, old one was MIA.
- New air filter.
- New spark plugs and Nology wires.
- Flush brake and clutch fluids.
All in it cost about three to four payments on a new bike :wheel
Quote from: Sparky on January 27, 2016, 05:13:27 AM
All in it cost about three to four payments on a new bike :wheel
And you've ended up with a bike with waaaay more character than most modern ones........
Quote from: nickjtc on January 27, 2016, 06:15:29 AM
And you've ended up with a bike with waaaay more character than most modern ones........
HEAR! HEAR!
Well spring is here and I thought I would do a final follow up post.
Since all the work over the winter I have put 1200 miles on the Steamer so I decided to check the valve clearances and replace the thermostat and radiator cap since I had the tank off. Five valves were slightly out of spec, some loose and some tight so I need to get some new shims as the ones in my pile are all too thin. Compression now reads 155, 160 and 160 using the same technique and gauge I used before disassembly. I also found one of the coils with the + and - backwards so we will see if that makes any difference. The bike runs nice and smooth and seems quieter than before if a Steamer can be called quiet the biggest thing I noticed is the vibration or rumble when rolling on the throttle below about 2000rpm seems less pronounced and goes away quicker and at a lower rpm. Oil level dropped a little over the first 300 miles and hasn't changed since, no smoke on start up or during deceleration and the end of the exhaust pipes stay cleaner. Overall I'm pleased with the results and hope to get some trouble free years from the bike now I have gone through it front to back.
I got the chance to ride a new Africa Twin DCT a few months ago good job I had already spent a few bucks and was finishing up the Steamer or it might have been replaced :icon_eek: