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Top End due to oil usage.

Started by Sparky, December 06, 2015, 02:28:02 AM

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Sparky

I bought the bike March 2014 with 39,400 miles it now has 42,500 miles. 

I did a 2500 mile oil change interval and the level went from the top mark to just below the bottom mark.  There are no oil leaks the bike lives in the garage and does not mark it's spot.  The only visible smoke is on the occasional cold start and overrun, nothing noticeable under power.  The cold start has a slight haze to the exhaust this is not consistent though some days it's hazier than others.  The overrun is the most noticeable after a down hill coast off throttle when you get on the throttle there is a not so nice puff of blue which is usually valve seals.

I don't have a problem with an engine using some oil I think in my case this is excessive and points to a problem I should fix.  I don't like the puff of blue after a down hill run and I think this may be the reason for the oil usage.  I have decided to remove the cylinder head, see what's going on and repair as necessary the tear down started today.

First pic shows marking wiring and coil locations, second pic shows the first sign of something wrong  :icon_eek: #1 on left #3 on right, these were new at 39,400 miles.  Next was a compression check, engine cold, all spark plugs out and throttle wide open #1 145psi, #2 70psi and #3 70psi.  I think Tiger is sicker than I thought, stay tuned for more.
1998 Steamer. Sold, replaced with a 2016 Africa Twin.
1982 Honda FT 500 Ascot,  1983 Honda VT 500 Ascot

motoOzarks

Ummm

that one on the right looks like a glow plug

Have had:  Girelli Bronco 50, Honda xr70, Yamaha YZ80, Yamaha MX175, Suzuki TS250, Honda XR350, Honda XR500, Honda XL600r, Suzuki DR200, Suzuki GS1100e, Honda Ruckas 49, BMW F650GS
Have:  Yamaha TW200, Suzuki DRZ400s, Triumph Tiger 955i

JoeDirt

Quote from: motoOzarks on December 06, 2015, 03:12:26 AM
Ummm

that one on the right looks like a glow plug

Yea... I think your gap might be set too wide. :icon_eek:

nickjtc

I hope the broken tip didn't fall into the cylinder............... :augie
"That which does not kill us reminds us to wear motorcycle specific clothing!"

iansoady

Sadly, not many other places it could have gone.....

With luck it might have been blown out of the exhaust.

Mind you, rereading your compression figures I wouldn't be hopeful.
Ian.

1931 Sunbeam Model 10
1999 Honda SLR650

Sparky

I did another compression test this morning after pouring a bit of gear oil in each cylinder:

#1
145 psi dry.
180 psi wet.

#2
70 psi dry.
110 psi wet.

#3
70 psi dry.
100 psi wet.

Since the increases are roughly the same I'm thinking it might be a valve problem vs rings, stay tuned. 
1998 Steamer. Sold, replaced with a 2016 Africa Twin.
1982 Honda FT 500 Ascot,  1983 Honda VT 500 Ascot

95tiger


Sin_Tiger

Hate to sound like the dour Scot but I'd be ordering a head gasket set now.
I used to have long hair, took acid and went to hip joints. Now I long for hair, take antacid and need a new hip joint

motoOzarks

Got a magnet?

Is that electrode stuck in a valve/train/spring  causing weird compression values?

Seriously dude, did that come out without an electrode?

Find the pieces
Have had:  Girelli Bronco 50, Honda xr70, Yamaha YZ80, Yamaha MX175, Suzuki TS250, Honda XR350, Honda XR500, Honda XL600r, Suzuki DR200, Suzuki GS1100e, Honda Ruckas 49, BMW F650GS
Have:  Yamaha TW200, Suzuki DRZ400s, Triumph Tiger 955i

Sparky

Quote from: Sin_Tiger on December 06, 2015, 11:15:17 PM
Hate to sound like the dour Scot but I'd be ordering a head gasket set now.

I already have the oem Triumph top end gasket kit sitting on the bench  :thumbsup
1998 Steamer. Sold, replaced with a 2016 Africa Twin.
1982 Honda FT 500 Ascot,  1983 Honda VT 500 Ascot

Sparky

Quote from: motoOzarks on December 07, 2015, 01:05:44 AM
Got a magnet?

Is that electrode stuck in a valve/train/spring  causing weird compression values?

Seriously dude, did that come out without an electrode?

Find the pieces

Yup plug came out minus electrode I have never seen that before I have seen plugs embedded with shrapnel and the electrode smashed into the porcelain.  The head is coming off so no need for a magnet.

I had the bike idling in the driveway the night before I started tearing it apart and it started and ran fine  :^_^
1998 Steamer. Sold, replaced with a 2016 Africa Twin.
1982 Honda FT 500 Ascot,  1983 Honda VT 500 Ascot

Sparky

Work continued today.

Bike got further stripped down, carbs removed, airbox removed, coolant drained, radiator removed and head cover removed.  The good news is there is no sign of sludge or grunge collecting in the corners of the head all the cam lobes have no scoring and look perfect and the cam timing was bang on.  I was going to remove the head but i need a better set of male Torx bits as the ones I have are crap and I don't want to risk stripping bolt heads.
1998 Steamer. Sold, replaced with a 2016 Africa Twin.
1982 Honda FT 500 Ascot,  1983 Honda VT 500 Ascot

Bixxer Bob

Unusually, the cylinder head bolts are re-usable.  You'll need blue Hylomar to seal the liners when you put them back.

Have you removed the bolt at the front left bottom of the barrel casing to drain the rest of the coolant?  Not the end of the world if you haven't, but less to go into the crankcase later.    Don't drain the oil till you have it all apart so that, if any coolant goes into the bottom casing, the oil will protect the moving bits until you drain the oil and coolant when you're done.
I don't want to achieve immortality through prayer, I want to achieve it through not dying...

Sparky

Quote from: Bixxer Bob on December 07, 2015, 01:54:11 PM
Unusually, the cylinder head bolts are re-usable.  You'll need blue Hylomar to seal the liners when you put them back.

Have you removed the bolt at the front left bottom of the barrel casing to drain the rest of the coolant?  Not the end of the world if you haven't, but less to go into the crankcase later.    Don't drain the oil till you have it all apart so that, if any coolant goes into the bottom casing, the oil will protect the moving bits until you drain the oil and coolant when you're done.

I have not drained the oil yet I did drain the cylinders as you suggested and was surprised at how much coolant came out.  Blue Hylomar on order.
1998 Steamer. Sold, replaced with a 2016 Africa Twin.
1982 Honda FT 500 Ascot,  1983 Honda VT 500 Ascot

Sparky

And for tonights installment of rip your Tiger apart:

I got the cylinder head off and the first thing I noticed was the disgusting condition of the coolant side of the liner and barrels the sludge in the coolant passages was nasty and needs a good clean up.  The other surprise was no sealant at all on the base of the cylinder liners why I did not have milky oil is a mystery maybe oil was seeping into the coolant which would explain the condition of the coolant side of things.  The pistons have some minor scuffing which is to be expected with this mileage I am surprised by the lack of blow by on the piston sides down to the first ring.  The valves have a lot of carbon build up.  In the following pics nothing has been cleaned yet parts are as they came off the bike you can see the damage to the piston and head on #3 cylinder due to lack of a spark plug electrode. Head, pistons and liners are going to the machinist in a few days to get everything checked out then I need to place another parts order.

I remember a ride during the summer when it was quite hot out I was cruising along about 70kmh when out of nowhere the bike was suddenly down on power had a very rattley diesel sound that lasted about 5 seconds then proceeded to run normally thinking back this was probably the #3 electrode falling into the cylinder and getting spit out the exhaust.
1998 Steamer. Sold, replaced with a 2016 Africa Twin.
1982 Honda FT 500 Ascot,  1983 Honda VT 500 Ascot