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Tiger Time => Steamers (1993-1998 Tigers) => Topic started by: ZuluSafari on December 24, 2015, 07:04:30 AM

Title: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: ZuluSafari on December 24, 2015, 07:04:30 AM
Hello fellow Steamer drivers!

I have been through page after page for the last several weeks, learning all I can on the maintenance and upkeep for my 97 Steamer, and have run into a dead end.  How do I open the reservoir end to recharge the nitrogen bladder?  I can not seem to shift or open the end plate/cap(?) at all, and I don't want to damage/destroy anything without checking here to see what I am doing wrong?  I assume the Schrader valve is located under the domed steel cover, correct?

The rebuild guide for Kayaba and Showa shock absorbers is very informative, yet too general.  Google hasn't been much help either, and there is practically no mention of the rear shock absorber reservoir in the Haynes manual.  I have tried to push down the cap, looking for any circlips.  I have tried turning the end off, turning the "plate" out; still no go.  I really am trying not to chew the finish or mar the sides, as the reservoir will be very visible on the Thunderbike Crash Bars I am installing!!

Thank you in advance for your assistance!  I have a shop close by that can charge to 150 psi Nitrogen, and there are several sources for the 5wt oil.  I just can't figure out how to get into the reservoir! :^_^
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: nickjtc on December 24, 2015, 07:30:36 AM
Or just send the whole kit and caboodle to :

http://www.adventurepowersports.us/  and let them figure it out.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: ZuluSafari on December 24, 2015, 07:59:28 AM
Definitely in the future for this trusty steed, but the weather is good for riding now.  Plus, she is still new (to me), so I don't like her being unaccessible for a ride.  I injured my back a week ago, and took the opportunity to:

replace the fork oil
seal the spokes and mount a new Anakee III tubeless on the front rim
Moose Racing ATV handlebars
install battery tender
brighter LED indicators
Thunderbike Crash Bars
EMGO YZ400F Shift lever
Side stand bushing

My back is feeling up to riding again, and I am about ready to reinstall all the fairings and go!  I feel a bit of a hitch in the steering, so new head bearings will be happening in the future.  I will also be sealing the rear wheel and installing the matching Anakee III after I burn a few more miles out of the Anakee II currently there.  That is when I will probably yank the shock and send to Sasquatch for his magic touch!  But, in the mean time, I would like to see how the rear shock dampening should feel when there is some pressure in the reservoir. :wheel 
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: BruKen on December 24, 2015, 11:05:52 AM
It's a press fitted dust cap. Unfortunately it's use once. Pry off and discard. Easiest way is to drill a hole on the EDGE of the dome being careful not to punch the drill through and damage the valve underneath. Pop a screwdriver in and prize off. I would not bother about replacement. Certainly if you send it in that's what they will do and you almost certainly wont get another dust cap fitted either. I do not think it's a carried spares item.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: ZuluSafari on December 25, 2015, 10:04:10 PM
Thanks for the tips- I drilled a 1/8" hole at the base of the raised section, and used an old nailset to pry the cap out. The Schrader valve was capped and looks like new.  I put in about 120 pounds of air (I have a dryer) for now, and will send the whole shock off to Idaho in the future :thumbsup!
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: London_Phil on December 25, 2015, 10:15:40 PM
Interested to hear how it feels after the re-gassing

I just tried to unscrew the metal cap on the shrader valve on my spare unit, and the valve shaft sheared...........going to have to strip the reservoir now. Not sure if I can fit an insert, or buy a new bladder cap.

BTW the "oil" that came out of the shock was black, very black.

Beginning to think probably better fix this one and swap the current unit out before too long.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: ZuluSafari on December 25, 2015, 10:30:27 PM
I might try finding a spare to send out for rebuild, then swap it for my current shock.  Less downtime = more riding!

My fork oil was black and smelled bad.

Getting ready to go for a ride now!

Merry Christmas (Happy Christmas to you across the pond!)
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: threepot on December 25, 2015, 11:48:41 PM
My rear shock died a while back. Can feel a distinctive 'slap' in the backside running over rough surfaces etc. But surprisingly the handling of the bike hasn't changed. I have tried re-charging with compressed air,but I think the valve is f@#$%d ?
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: Mustang on December 26, 2015, 10:18:10 AM
Quote from: threepot on December 25, 2015, 11:48:41 PM
My rear shock died a while back. Can feel a distinctive 'slap' in the backside running over rough surfaces etc. But surprisingly the handling of the bike hasn't changed. I have tried re-charging with compressed air,but I think the valve is f@#$%d ?
my 98 behaved like that when the showa was brand new , it turned into an Ohlins immediately
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: London_Phil on December 26, 2015, 11:05:05 AM
Quote from: threepot on December 25, 2015, 11:48:41 PM
My rear shock died a while back. Can feel a distinctive 'slap' in the backside running over rough surfaces etc. But surprisingly the handling of the bike hasn't changed. I have tried re-charging with compressed air,but I think the valve is f@#$%d ?

Have you checked the bottom linkage bearings are not shot. There not keen on lack of grease. When I first got mine, the one the shock clamps to had failed, and was hammering its way into the Aluminium linkage body.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: threepot on December 26, 2015, 05:41:38 PM
Phil,I have greased the linkages a few times ,and they seem to be operating OK? But I will check further.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: BruKen on December 26, 2015, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: threepot on December 25, 2015, 11:48:41 PM
My rear shock died a while back. Can feel a distinctive 'slap' in the backside running over rough surfaces etc. But surprisingly the handling of the bike hasn't changed. I have tried re-charging with compressed air,but I think the valve is f@#$%d ?

Have you adjusted both the rebound and  compression damping valves? If your shocks are set with the incorrect compression damping (min) then you could well bottom out. If you set to max and you are bottoming out on a sharp knock then you have something wrong. If you are bottoming out on a slow progession then either your bladder is underinflated/ low on oil or your spring tension needs increasing. Stop eating all the pies fatso  :icon_razz: :augie Have you checked the rear unladen weight heights to verify spring pretensioning? I believe it's 1 inch drop from full extension.

other values -guide

  .............................compression...................rebound
solo std.....................6...................................8
solo soft....................8...................................10
solo firm....................4....................................6
with pillion................6.....................................4
pilliom and luggage...6.....................................4
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: ZuluSafari on December 27, 2015, 03:10:23 AM
WOW! What a difference some psi makes!  The old steamer was fun before, but now she's amazing to ride!  The flushed and refilled forks (I used Dexron III ATF) combined with recharged gas reservoir really brought out better handling!  The new Anakee III works well with the refurbished suspension, too.  I'm taking it easy to scrub the new rubber in, but the whole bike feels much more planted and sure-footed than before.  Where the bike kind of bounced and floated over road imperfections or railroad crossings, she now glides.  With the more "pointy" front tire profile, the turn in is faster but still controlled.

My bike had the forks pushed up 1" when I purchased her, and I put them back up one inch when I put the bike back together.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: motoOzarks on December 27, 2015, 03:18:32 AM
Is that the Texas bike that made the rattle noises?

You may want or need to flip your rear wheel axle up to match moving your forks in the clamps.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: ZuluSafari on December 27, 2015, 04:04:29 AM
?why?  The bike handles great as it is? Reading on here, pushing the forks up 1 inch from stock has been beneficial for handling and tire wear.

I also don't notice any unusual noises or rattles.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: Sin_Tiger on December 27, 2015, 12:31:27 PM
Have the eccentrics already been flipped?
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: motoOzarks on December 27, 2015, 03:19:22 PM
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on December 27, 2015, 12:31:27 PM
Have the eccentrics already been flipped?

Not from what can be seen in the picture
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: ZuluSafari on December 27, 2015, 03:35:35 PM
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on December 27, 2015, 12:31:27 PM
Have the eccentrics already been flipped?

The 12mm hex key socket is at the top, and the offset notches are at the bottom.  There is a small scribed line at the bottom on the swing arm clamp, so I believe the eccentrics are in their stock orientation.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: Mustang on December 27, 2015, 03:52:34 PM
correct !
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: London_Phil on December 27, 2015, 08:53:55 PM
Glad to hear the work you put in gave an improved ride.
So far, I am relieved  I had a spare to play with.
As mentioned before, shrader valve sheared off.
Next the bladder cap was seized in the reservoir, I was able to compress it to get the spring clip out, but unable to push it out the end.
Possibly dismantling hose between shock and reservoir before getting this off was a bad idea. Had to use grease gun to get hydraulic pressure into reservoir to finally force cap off.
Would think carefully about doing this if your not able to budget the possible downtime.
Bladder is good, and surface corrosion on the Ali parts will clean up, and as its the "spare" and the piston shows no sign of leaking, I think I will repair the bladder cap, refill with ATF, and use air to pressure the bladder. Its probably got a capacity of 100ml, and is not worth the added overhead of chasing Nitrogen.
Suspect anything is better than the one that is on the bike now.

Regards

Phil
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: ZuluSafari on December 27, 2015, 11:42:00 PM
 :thumbsup Another member here offered up that though the use of air may not be correct, 5 psi of air pressure has to be better than no psi of nitrogen!

The firm gas chamber really helped the ride, so I am excited to see what a correct spring for my (substantial) weight will do, too!
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: Sasquatch on December 28, 2015, 07:00:11 PM
While I am a fan of ATF in forks, not so much in shocks.  The valving in that stock shock is set up for 5w oil.  Changing that without altering the valving will change the way it rides.  And if you are this far in, take the shock fully apart, change the shaft seal, clean the shaft and bore, and put it back together.  Make sure you properly bleed all air out of the shock/reservoir.  Your bike will thank you.

Shock oil degrades with time and miles.  Every single Steamer shock I have done has had little to no pressure in the reservoir left and the oil was beyond trashed, unless it was rebuilt in the recent past.  Nitrogen should be topped up every year or so (schrader ports do leak), and the fluid exchanged every 3-4 years or 25-35k miles, whichever comes first.  Shocks are a service item and do not like to be ignored.

Sasquatch
Adventure Power Sports, llc
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: London_Phil on December 28, 2015, 07:56:25 PM
Apologies, I seem to be hijacking this thread, but hopefully the info is useful.
Got carried away today, took the plunge and stripped out the shaft anyway.
Some marking on the shaft, but nothing that wont polish out.
Next problem is with the (rebound?) adjustment valve on the lower fork. It is seized in position (ie the adjustment), and the adjusting slot is munched. Looks like someone has tried to use a punch to rotate the whole valve out.
So glad this is a spare unit, not sure if the valve is replaceable, gonna take it to work and Xray it to see if its a screw in assy, unless anyone already knows.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: London_Phil on December 30, 2015, 08:51:51 PM
Just in case your interested
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: Bixxer Bob on December 30, 2015, 09:14:16 PM
I split out BruKen's envy of your Xray tool into a new thread .....  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: London_Phil on December 30, 2015, 09:19:47 PM
I might start an informal, occasional series of images.. If I can carry it my backpack to work, and get it to lie still on the table, I'll record it for your pleasure. Might do igniter (pick up) coil tomorrow, if not too busy.
There not Industrial quality, there on a medical device, but the detail is good enough for a general look see.

Happy viewing
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: trophydave on December 30, 2015, 09:36:11 PM
Is the lower fork alloy?Some gentle heat might persuade the adjuster screw to come out.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: London_Phil on December 30, 2015, 10:53:52 PM
The fork is indeed Ali.
The adjuster is brass it would seem.
You can just make out, from those low res images, that the adjuster internal piece is threaded into the fork.
Its clearer in the originals, but they are   15Mb, so no chance of an upload.
My suspicion is the body is an interference/push fit, possibly the 10 turns is actually the thread depth, so it would need to be loosened by heat, then screwed out until the threads came apart.
Will need to get advice, before I risk terminal damage.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: trophydave on December 30, 2015, 11:04:46 PM
It's the sort of thing we do at work,I might be able to get it out but couldn't give any guarantees.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: ssevy on January 02, 2016, 09:39:58 PM
I had my forks and monoshock rebuilt by propilotsuspension in NJ. Great work and reasonable too. Very happy with the improvement.
Title: Re: KYB Shock Reservoir question
Post by: London_Phil on January 31, 2016, 04:29:34 PM
Destructive removal of the seized adjuster.
New one from a scrap tt600 shock. Same size, so back on track.
Interference fit, so need to freeze the insert and warm the ali before attempting.
If successful, I will continue with rebuild, and post some more pics

Regards

Phil
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