Hello again

[Dr. Mordo]

I have been AWOL because I moved from Texas to Florida.  My bikes were in storage for a couple of months.  So, now I'm trying to get them on the road and both are giving me problems.  At first neither would crank at all, but I think I have figured out the problem.  The moving company wanted me to run them completely dry so there was no gas in the carbs, and I think in the process I carbon'd out the plugs as things got leaner and leaner.  So, now both bikes have new plugs.

Tiger - Cranks right up, but now has a terrible knocking that sounds like it's coming from the top end (or maybe the left side - it's so loud it's hard to place, and my bike has the D&Ds so it's loud as hell anyway).  It's a very rhythmic 'tack-a-tack-a-tack-a" sound.  It's also very loud.  BTW, the bike seems to be running perfectly.  I haven't had the DAR so I don't know what it sounds like, but this one had the DAR fixed 3-4k miles ago, and the sound doesn't go away at higher RPMs, which I seem to remember is symptomatic of DAR.

BMW - Runs, but doesn't want to idle, and when I held the throttle up at 4-5k rpm for a few minutes the exhaust started glowing red just outside the header before the cat.  The bike seems to run fine off idle, but coughs and dies when I let go of the throttle.  Do I just need to ride it to blow the crap out of the carb?  Is the glowing exhaust normal if you keep it cranked for a while?

BTW, happy holidays, everybody!

[Mustang]

sounds silly but do you have a plug that is not screwed down tight in the tiger ? seeing how you just changed them ...............

beemer sounds like shit in the pilot jet and will need to be cleaned . the glowing header , a lot of bikes will do that my bonneville will glow cherry red at night when left to idle to long with the choke on .

[Dr. Mordo]

I guess great minds think alike - I rechecked the plugs to be sure they were tight.  It sounds to me like a very loud mechanical ticking.  I can't help but think it's camshaft related, but the bike seems to be running fine.  I'm toying with the idea of pulling the valve cover and then turning it over to see it I can spot it.  Will oil spray everywhere?

I guess I'll have to break into the BMW.  I suppose it's time; that bike has been virtually trouble free for two years.

Thanks for the help.

[JetdocX]

You checked the Classic F650 FAQ's right? :lol:

How long did you run the Tiger with the loud valve noises?  Is it possible the oil has not gotten there yet to make the clearances right?  Is your exhaust on tight?  The alternator is on the left side.  Just sayin'.

[Dr. Mordo]

I ran it for a minute or two before I got too nervous to let it run.  I don;t think it's exhaust because yesterday it sounded normal.  I guess I should check it just to be sure.  I wouldn't mind if it is DAR - I'm worried it's something worse.

And, no, I haven't checked the F650 FAQs.  Ok, ok, I'm retarded.

[Dr. Mordo]

Well, I spent a few hours with it yesterday.  

I pulled the plugs and turned it over and could still hear a slow knocking, sounded like it as coming from the right hand side of the motor beneath the head.

Then I pulled the alternator, and everything seemed normal.  I turned it over again, and nothing changed from before.

Then I pulled the valve cover.  I didn't measure the clearances, which I probly should have while I was in there, but everything looked normal.  I turned it over again with the cover off and the noise still sounded lower in the engine.

So, I'm beginning to think it might be a connecting rod or crankshaft problem.  Any thoughts on how to positively troubleshoot this without tearing into it?

If it stops raining, I'm gonna record an audio clip so y'all can hear the noise.

[Mustang]

check the cam chain and or cam chain tensioner .

[coachgeo]

check the cam chain and or cam chain tensioner .

You might consider putting some engine cleaner additive in the oil like what is made for cars whose automatic valve lift  adjusters are getting noisy/dirty. sitting engines can get sticky varnished oil passages that slow movement of thru small passages.    I read  it does take a good while for this extra detergent additive to do it's job though.  

Mustang is the tensioner hydraulic via oil pressure?  If so then this certainly fits the scenario and fits the..... get some oil clean additive into the engine and run her.

[Mustang]

check the cam chain and or cam chain tensioner .

You might consider putting some engine cleaner additive in the oil like what is made for cars whose automatic valve lift  adjusters are getting noisy/dirty. sitting engines can get sticky varnished oil passages that slow movement of thru small passages.    I read  it does take a good while for this extra detergent additive to do it's job though.  

Mustang is the tensioner hydraulic via oil pressure?  If so then this certainly fits the scenario and fits the..... get some oil clean additive into the engine and run her.

 :roll:  :icon_scratch  :shock:   NOPE don't do it
big spring is all on a ratchet

[coachgeo]

hmmmm.... ok not hydraulic* .. so sticky oil passages don't seem to fit this bikes chain tensioner scenario then. hmmmm

If it is not the tensioner; what else might cause this noise that first comes about after a bike sitting for a few months?
 
Or another question may be:  What existing problem that cause this noise, tends to appear more obvious after a bike has sat unused for a few months?

Hope for Doc that it is something simple.

* my old Datsun was both spring and hydraulic.  Spring against a piston in pocket kept minimal tension on the chain, as oil pressure went up it applied a little pressure on the piston/ tensioner. Believe the Hydraulic action also acted as a dampener during sudden RPM changes

[Dr. Mordo]

Thanks for all the help, guys.

The spring from the tensioner measured out at 69.3 mm.  My Haynes manual says to replace it if the length has "reduced significantly" from the stock length of 73.7 mm.  Does a 6% decrease equal a significant reduction?

I'm thinking yes, but figured Mustang might have some experience with this.

EDIT:  The link is a sound file of the sound recorded with my iPhone.  The clicking is the sound I am concerned with, and that's how it sounds about 8-12 inches from the right side of the bike.  That said, it's pretty hard to positively say it comes from the right side of the engine.  Although, now that I think about it, I pressed a ratchet against my ear and various areas of the right side of the engine, and the only place I heard the noise thru the ratchet was when I pressed it on the tensioner.

Oh, and at the end I move around back so you can hear the D&D pipes.  Somebody asked for a recording a year ago.

http://the23rdcentury.com/othermp3s/TIGER.mp3

[Mustang]

I would replace the spring and the tensioner shoe as well as the cam chain , especially if the bike has high miles

doesn't sound like a bearing noise , gut feeling says cam chain and tensioner

looking at bike bandit you can only by the tensioner assembly 95 bucks and the shoe is aalmost a hundred  :shock:

cam chain is over a hundred  :shock:

check them for wear and if the shoes look good dont bother
don't for get to look at the one under the valve cover that runs between the two cam sprockets

[Dr. Mordo]

What do you think about just replacing the tensioner now, and then doing the chain later?  The bike has 85k miles, so it probly is time for a cam chain.  I noticed that the tensioner I pulled was almost fully engaged.  But, just in case it is some catastrophic failure I'd rather not throw good money after bad.

And, do I really have to pull the camshafts to change the chain?  At least it doesn't seem too bad.

[coachgeo]

Was your noises present before you parked the bike for a few months? twas my understanding this was a new sound or did I read this wrong.

[Mustang]

by fully engaged do you mean no adjustment left  ?

If thats the case you NEED a new cam chain .

and very likely the tensioner you have will be fine .
It aint so bad to pull the cams
**TIP** mark the caps where they go and orientation .
they are NOT interchangeable .