Steamer Handling

[Sin_Tiger]

After the rebuild and Dyno run and now a couple of longer rides, I am not experiencing the handling I was expecting.

New head bearings
New wheel bearings
Forks rebuilt with progressive springs
Shock, Öhlins, rebuilt by an Öhlins tech
New Anakee II's
Everything else bog standard
Rims are good and true after rebuild
Balance is good
Alignment is fine

I feel as if the bike is almost floating on a steady throttle above 130 kph. Accelerating it feels steadier right up to 190kph, braking it's stable, just steady throttle. Still changes direction with normal ease.

Feels almost like riding on pebbles or gravel. Does not inspire me with confidence, don't feel so stable cornering and I am very cautious, Captain Cautious speaking here, in the wet in case I need to brake hard.

Tried several tyre pressures and preload settings, even varied the fork oil level but no notable change. Was like this on the old Metzlers but I put down to their age.

A friend rode it two up and didn't experience it but his girlfriend weighs lessees than my luggage. Another friend who had a Steamer said his was the same!

I'm running out of ideas and now casting my bread upon the water.

[BruKen]

Tigger with heavy luggage..... I really disliked the ride feel too. Refused to go above 70mph because the tail would wag the dog.

Try dropping down the forks through the yokes in quarter inch increments up to an inch until the balance of the bike is right. I'd be guessing with all the luggage on your front wheel is too light.

[JetdocX]

Have the suspension set up by someone who knows how.  Probably a combination of rear shock ride height and soft front end.  I'm no fan of progressive springs.  I'd go back in and fit standard rate springs set up for your weight and add valve emulators.

[BruKen]

Jetdox has a point. What is your static sag on your rear. Mine did not corner so well until I ensured it was only an inch. Made the ride a bit stiffer all round.


One last thing to add to the mix. With the older rim width at 3.5 inch on the rear and 4+ on more modern DS's I found that even though a tire may be rated for 3.5 and 4 (though made for 4) altered the cornering stability quite significantly. A tyre fitter explained it all rather nicely and buggered if I can fully remember his explanations on profile shapes etc and their dynamics, but the Tourances for example that I have on my GS .... lovely. The Tourances..... the bloody same ones.... on the tigger...absolute shite because of the profile change.

[Nick Calne]

Hey Sin, I think BruKen is probably right about dropping the forks and I have heard Mustang say something similar in the past.  (I've not done this yet though)  I always had the floating feeling and it worried me too.  Esp. back to back with other road bikes.  Strangely it feels more normal if you try the steamer back to back with a dirt bike for some reason.

My cure?  I put Bridgestone battlewing tyres on and it made a lot of difference for me at least.  No one else seems to use them on here, but it worked for me.

[rf9rider]

Best thing i did to improve the handling was the 3 spoke conversion.
A bit of work involved, but worth the effort  :)

Although i`ve yet to try it loaded with the luggage.

[Sin_Tiger]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I should have stated top box on all the time but even without luggage it seems to be pretty much the same.

I can't see any unusual wear pasterns on the front tyre that would indicate that it's starting to cup like those on my Varadero. I was starting too get paranoid on the ride back from Thailand that there might be cracks on the frame, everything else seemed to be cracking but I had a good look at the frame around the head stock and it looked good.

I realise that a lot can be done to improve particularly the front end but I'm wanting to keep her as standard as practicable.

What I'm trying to get at, perhaps not very eruditely, is this normal for a bog standard Steamer?

[rybes]

i got anakee 2s on later, wider rims with a 150 0n the rear, 110 (i think) on the front on mine, with hyperpro springs front n rear n rebuilt standard shock with 2.5 wt oil (again im tryin to remember from 2 years ago). front forks are 25mm above the top yoke and have 15wt oil in them (again i think thats what it was) and tyre pressures are 40 rear 35 front.  shock settins are 7 clicks out on the resoivoir and 4 on the bottom of the shock
ridin solo i love the handlin of mine. very flickable can be a bit slugish in quick manouvers but im puttin that down to the size of the thing.
when i was fully loaded to come to denmark with luggage and pillion the only problem i found was the front was very light in bends. altho since then ive found that 3 clicks out on the res and 2 on the shock works fine with pillion.
ridin with or without pillion  i can still get it leant over far enough that the tyres has no chicken strips. from what i can remember from ridin it on new tyres is it can fel very much the same as you describe, a bit floaty and on ball bearins. took a while to get used to it but after that its fine.
hope yours is just a case of waitin for the new tyres to bed in  

when i get back to it ill have a good look so i can be sure of what i wrote about the shock settins and oil weight is right.

[BruKen]

Yes and no. I go through patterns of bike riding. After riding the tigger for a while I find the gsx handling to be stiff and awkward and I struggle with the bike not to go wide in the corners. She needs more lean and less bar turn. The truth is she is more agile than the tiger though and after an hour or two I get back into it. Getting back on the tigger the feel is then exposed, high and light and a bit top heavy. Handling is good but very very different. She turns more, leans less and brakes far earlier into corners, but accelerates harder through them. They are two different styles. It took me about 4 months riding before I became confident and trustful of the tigger. You cannot compare her to your striple. With a longer rake and bigger front wheel she will always be light on the front wheel. More so with the wide bars on top. But she handles within her own idiosyncracies very well. Luggage on her tho, does affect her a lot. It's not the weight alone, which so long as you compensate with preload and fork drop to maintain a even distribution of weight between axles can be countered , its the airflow that's the bugger. If your luggage is catching the wind the tail shakes the dog. Sometimes in can be the smallest thing that does it too. However, like everything, get used to it, and ride within the limitations of the environment. A loaded for touring tigger is never going to feel like a trackbike, but then, we already know that, we just don't want to accept it.

[BruKen]

As the Rieberman says, the tigger can flick. Put me on a single track C road and hedgerows that twists and squirms like a mating snake where top speed of 60 mph is almost impossible to achieve and watch the tigger leave the competition behind. Get me into Wales or Scotland and the tigger is a dream bike. Long sweepers, not so much , too much fat on top and a tendency to oversteer.

[Sin_Tiger]

This is all great stuff and much appreciated.

Lower than highway speeds I have no complaints and the recent trip on the mountain roads in Genting and Phang Na proved that she was not just capable but downright fun. I showed the video to a couple of pretty decent GSA riding friends and if it hasn't been for the obvious bit of Steamer in the corner they thought I had been riding the Striple.

I don't disagree, psycology is bound to be part of the issue, when I sold the Varadero to embark on this project my initial impressions of the Steamer were that she was more nimble not even considering the screwed up running gear and I stand by that. Jumping between the Steamer, Striple and Thruxton does take a period of adjustment but that should not have been an issue after a few thousand klicks in the saddle. The Thruxton is like a cow on castors for the first ten minutes and then hilarious except for the retro rubber, the Striple was just capitalized Fun from legover to switch off, Lord I miss that bike even after just a couple of weeks.

Back to the plot. With my intention to maintain the mechanical status quo and all the helpful comments above, I think you are all right with the various points, stock with what you have and sort it out to suit me best, getting some professional help if needed.

Thanks for all the input.

[Big Mick]

Just put some 30mm risers under my stock bars, now feels like i've got over assisted power steering ! :(  Hate to think what it would feel like with SWMBO and some luggage on. Out with the C spanners ?

[el-cid]

This is all great stuff and much appreciated.

Lower than highway speeds I have no complaints and the recent trip on the mountain roads in Genting and Phang Na proved that she was not just capable but downright fun. I showed the video to a couple of pretty decent GSA riding friends and if it hasn't been for the obvious bit of Steamer in the corner they thought I had been riding the Striple.

I don't disagree, psycology is bound to be part of the issue, when I sold the Varadero to embark on this project my initial impressions of the Steamer were that she was more nimble not even considering the screwed up running gear and I stand by that. Jumping between the Steamer, Striple and Thruxton does take a period of adjustment but that should not have been an issue after a few thousand klicks in the saddle. The Thruxton is like a cow on castors for the first ten minutes and then hilarious except for the retro rubber, the Striple was just capitalized Fun from legover to switch off, Lord I miss that bike even after just a couple of weeks.

Back to the plot. With my intention to maintain the mechanical status quo and all the helpful comments above, I think you are all right with the various points, stock with what you have and sort it out to suit me best, getting some professional help if needed.

Thanks for all the input.

So, did you ever hash this issue out?  I bought a '98 Tiger last week and got it out for its first decent ride Friday and experienced this same exact feeling. Granted, I was used to riding my CBR 600 but its not all in my head.

I plan on changing fork oil out to 15 wt (not sure whether its ever been changed), possibly raising the fork legs in the crowns by 10mm and dialing in some more rear shock preload. It'll be getting some new Shinko 705s very soon too (it has Anakees with about 20% life right now). Does this bike have a preference for bias or radial tires?

One interesting thing I found in a test between this and a R1100GS from '98 in MCN is that they said the front wheel is offset to the left by nearly 1/2". On my first long ride I may have been trying to compensate for this slight imbalance? 

[ssevy]

I put my 95 Steamer up on the jack for the first time last night to adjust the chain slack, and noticed that when putting the jack in approximately the same location as I do on my Legend, that the front comes up, but the weight is very much to the back of the Steamer. I found this interesting, as the front looks so stout with all of the fairing, etc. mounted. I actually had to put the extra spacer on the rear arm of the jack to compensate, and now both tires come off the ground together. The longer swing arm must be a factor, but I can see where the weight in the back and the larger diameter front tire could make the front end feel like it is floating. Since I only have experienced riding my Steamer about 65 miles so far, it still feels completely new and different as compared to my Legend. Between the buffeting and the semi fairing plowing through the air (my Legend is naked), it is a very different ride for me.

[Bixxer Bob]

CID, I don't know how experienced you are so will throw this in as a just-in-case;  when doing the forks, make sure to flush out the fork bottoms properly (I use old fuel), especially if it's not been done before.  Yours isn't high miles but you'd be amazed at the crud that gathers in the bottoms.  Tipping them out is NOT enough.