Convince me to get a Tiger?

[WIDGIN]

Sorry, yet another which bike should I get?  



I was very interested in and almost bought a 955 Tiger a few years ago but for some reason (never owned a V-twin?) chose a 2005 HD 1200 Sportster. Maybe it was because the day I chose to demo the Tiger it was about 45 degrees, I got lost during the demo and froze my a** off trying to find the dealership again, and it didn't have the same guts that the lightly modded Speed Triple I tested a week prior had.  



Should mention that after testing 1150GS, Multistrada, Tiger, and various other bikes I almost bought a new 1150 GS but the price was too dear to explain to the non-riding wife at the time. So I bought the HD figuring I wouldn't lose too much if I traded it in in two years.  



Anyway, I've now decided that the HD needs to go for an adventure bike so I can run some dirt. I'm not typical HD, don't want to go to their parties, tired of the loud pipes, etc.  Bought it in spite of the HD "image" and never wanted to fit in. Do love the engine, sound, and it's astounding reliability.



Although we have great mountain twisties an hour from home, we also have great fireroads (and I hear trails) through these mountains. I live too far to run a thumper up there and don't have the time for hassling with a trailer or loading on my pickup. But my fondest bike memories are of extensive fire-road and single-track riding as a teenager (35 years ago.) Also enjoy dusting sport bikes off the twisties on the HD. But hey, could probably do that on a decent 350. Funny that they always look at my sidewalls in the gas stations looking in vain for chicken strips.  



My latest thoughts have been to get a KTM 990 Adventure once I sell the HD. I demoed a 950 Adventure for about 20 minutes and thought it felt like a big dirt bike compared to everthing else I tested. This was both good and bad (cool doing power-wheelies through first two gears but wondered how comfortable the hour-long trip up to the mountains would be.) Actually, I probably would have already traded for a 950 Adventure except the local dealers won't do a trade.  Also like the idea of ABS and FI.



I've strongly considered the 1200GS (too complex and I don't want another dealer network who think you owe them a favor when you visit (your service staff likes donuts and cookies?, WTF)), Multistrada (too road oriented and maintenance intensive), Caponord (too heavy and questionable parts/dealer supply), Strom (sorry, too damn ninja turtle-esque), Ulysses (too tall, poor wind protection, want to try a different engine for a change). New 1050 Tiger is too road oriented for my tastes.  



Therefore, the KTM seems like the best bargain if I want to get serious about dirt riding once again. Aside from the waterpump/casting concerns, seems like a great bike. I figure that if I sell the HD when the weather turns, I'll need to add an additional $6-7K to buy a 990 and put some farkles on it. The wife has already okayed getting the KTM once I sell the HD.    



But today, I see a local 2006 Tiger 955 with 5K miles for $7,900.  Also a 2003 with 10K for $5,900.  Makes me wonder. Hmm, although the wife won't allow two bikes in the garage, I could buy one of the Tigers now, sell the HD in spring and have a lot of cash left over compared to the KTM.  It also seems like the Tiger may be more reliable?



But, would I regret not waiting and getting a 990? Is the Tiger 955 truly outclassed compared to the KTM 950 in the dirt? The magazines seem to think so. Where would the difference be noticable? On a fire-road or only while single-tracking?



I actually like the looks of the Tigers better than the Adventures. And I expect that I'll do 80% road/20% dirt which may make the Tiger a better overall bike. But the allure of doing a full-lock powerslide/wheelie down a dirt road is very strong and I suspect the KTM would do this easier.



Unfortunately, the chance of demoing either bike for several hours to reach the dirt roads and trails are nil.



I realize this is a biased forum but what are your thoughts about a Tiger for my expected usage.  Does the KTM totally outrun it off-road or is this journalistic license?  Seems like there are only 50lbs difference.  Can the soft Tiger suspension be changed out easily?  Are there more aggressive tires readily available in the US?



Advice from anyone who's owned or spent considerable time on both bikes? Once again, I apologize for this thread's premise. But there don't seem to be too many direct comparisions between these bikes, despite the fact that they have similar engines, hp, dimensions, etc.

[speedjunkie]

Well, I don't have any seat time on the KTM950, but I've owned a '05 Tiger, and ridden a '06 Tiger.  I also own a KTM LC4 640E(dual sport thumper).  



The KTM is by far more dirt worthy than the Tiger.  You can stiffen up the springs on the Tiger and get knobs for it, but it's still more street based and heavier.  If you plan on jumps, whoops, big rocks, slick mud, sand, and muck, probably should go with the KTM.  If it's anything else, I'd go with the Tiger.  Lot's of aftermarket for both, more offroad oriented for the KTM tho.



I had considered the 950 vs. the Tiger myself.  As you said, the new 1050 is TOO street oriented for my tastes, sexy as hell tho.  Anyway, with my riding, I chose the Tiger.  Mainly because it has tubeless tires vs. tube type.  For city/highway driving it seemed silly to run tubes anymore than I had too.  The likely hood of picking up a nail or something is pretty good in town, and pulling off in a parking lot to break down a tire didn't sound all that appealing.  Out in the boondocks is the same.  As long as you don't pick up a railroad spike, then TT vs TL isn't going to matter.  Plus the '06 Tiger is buttery smooth, smoother than my '05.  Only difference was the engine design.  '06 has the 1050 case, head, and balancer.  Just smaller bore.



Now, you see I said HAD on the '05.  I sold it instead of the FJR.  My bad.  Bought a KLR instead of the LC4, again, my bad.  Oh well, live and learn.  Only thing I'd do differently this time is buy the '06 vs the '05.



Also something to consider on the KTM especially the new 990.  First year in the states, and I'm hearing of quite a few issues with the FI in Europe.  Something to consider as well.  The KTM's seem to be pretty reliable as well, save the waterpump and clutch slave cylinder problems that seem to be pretty common.  Don't forget on the KTM if it's new, especially the 950, to do the cannisterectomy, remove the SAI, and rejet the carbs.  The KTM is prone to flooding if you overfill the fuel tanks if you don't remove the charcoal cannisters and reroute the hoses.  



I guess in the broadest of terms, if you want a street legal dirt bike, buy the KTM.  If you want a dirt legal street bike, get the Tiger.  Good luck.





Mike

[Advwannabe]

The KTM is much better on the dirt. Much better. I assure you that you will feel every one of those extra fifty pounds when you are trying to drag your tigger out of a creek bed or haul 'er up on her wheels after an off.



However, the Tiger is much better at touring and general road riding. Where I live only the main highway and one or two other roads are sealed out of town. Also, although my Tiger is taken off-bitumen regularly into two and one track trails my usage would still be 90%road 10%dirt.



People also sometimes don't consider dirt roads. We get 'em muddy, corrugated and dusty where I live. My 955 Tiger seems well suited to this The airbox takes a long time to get dirty and the handling is pretty good. The KTM shines here too like a sports bike. But after several hours down a dusty road you'll wish you were on the Tiger.



So the question you should probably ask yourself is how much dirt are you really going to ride and how important is dirt performance when you get to the trails? I can live with the Tiger offroad, but I can't live with the Katoom on it.

[WIDGIN]

Thanks guys.  Exactly the info I needed.  Now, decisions, decisions.

[Bliker]

If you have a dirtbike background, I think you will be disapointed with the Tiger going offroad. You may consider one of the used Tigers and a DR650.  You could have 2 bikes for the price of the ktm. I love my Tiger for touring and mountain riding but wasn't impressed with it on more technical forest roads. I like it on the dirt roads, but it's just to heavy when you get into alot of gravel or muddy roads.

[wasions]

I have to agree with Bliker.



I don't ride off road that often since I got the Tiger.  If I find myself on loose gravel, it's a handful, but it'll get me out okay.  For dirt/off road I have a DR350.  I've been known to do 400 mile days on the DR, including fire roads, paths, etc.  The DR is very tiring on the highway, but it gets me to the woods where I relax.  The Tiger is very tiring in rough going (I don't take it off-road - the potential back breaking/bank breaking prevents me), but relaxing on the road.



I've considered giving up the DR, but probably won't.



The only experience I've had with an Adventure (S) is to sit astride it.  Even that was pretty cool, though.   8)

[WIDGIN]

I love my Tiger for touring and mountain riding but wasn't impressed with it on more technical forest roads. I like it on the dirt roads, but it's just to heavy when you get into alot of gravel or muddy roads.

Since I see you're in Woodstock, GA can you confirm that there are sufficient "technical forest roads" nearby that would justify the KTM over the Tiger?  It's been a little hard to check them out on the Sportster.  The few times I tried taking it onto a gravel forest road were scary.



Unfortunately, I don't have the time or garage space for two bikes.  I also know that running 60 miles from Roswell to N. GA on a 400/650 to play would be murder on my 48 year old bones.  



Since my initial post, I've been searching the web for Tiger shit and it looks like dirt accessories are truly sparse.  In particular, the skidplate options for '06 Tigers are ridiculous.  :(  I really don't like the Happy Trails, Thunderbike, or Ma's setups and wouldn't want to remove the centerstand to mount the Touratech.  Hepco-Becker makes great looking crash bars but what about a skid-plate?  Can't find any other options.  And I know we've got some monster rocks hiding in these mountains just waiting to snatch some belly meat (would that be called Tiger Pastrami)?  :roll:  



Damn shame as the 955 Tiger really appeals to me.  One of the best looking bikes ever made, great motor and road manners, very comfortable, good price, probably more reliable than the KTM, etc.  But I don't want to trade bikes only to gut the oil sump on some rocky trail.  :(  



I Triple Curse Triump for moving the once proud Tiger completely onto the pavement for 2007.  

[speedjunkie]

I hear you about the skit plate.  Touratech, Thunderbike, and some other German mfg. all make beefy looking skid plates.  Don't know about the center stand tho or whether the crash bars are mandatory as well.  But then again, you might want the center stand off for the added clearance.  Good luck.







Mike

[TigerTrax]

The Tiger may be the best kept secret 'all-around bike' on the market.

Plenty of riders read what you can't do with it .... and believe it. Many riders ... just go do it!



Fact is:



The Tiger .... up to 2006 ... is an awesome touring bike. Yeah you get some wind.... BFD! But at 90 mph all day.... it's great. Oh yeah... 2-up!



As a two lane and mountain road carver ...'grincity'!



Off Road; Stick with hard packed surface if you are 'queezy'. But it does

handle well on forest roads and trails. Loose & slippery surface is NOT good if you are on angle and surrounded by rocks!



But I have always said, " The Tiger will remind you WHY you got into motorcycling!"

Come see us at the Tiger Ride-In June 21-23 in Wellsboro, PA !

[Sasquatch]

I would never consider dragging a Tiger off manicured paved roads...







Or on a loose rock strewn poor excuse for a road.







Or up around tight switchbacks with man-eater ruts in them.







Or let my 64 year old father ride his fully loaded with camping gear across a stream.







The very stream crossing where KTM's try and go for a swim.







Or cross such remote lands like the MacGruder Corridor..







Or lead packs of riders on 1200 mile, multi day dirt rides.







Tigers really dont like to get dirty and have people use them as pack mules and cooking stations.







Yup, Tigers suck in the dirt.

[gus]

I have been reading the Tiger forum for awhile. Your thread made get off my butt and join so I could reply. All of the other guys that answered hit the nail on the head.  The bike you are looking for does not exist. Lightweight (under 275lbs.) so you can pick it up when it lands upside down. Heavy enough (around 400lbs +or-) so it soesn't get blown all over the road. Needs good wind protection, but no expensive bodywork to break when you fall. about 30-40hp for good offroad manageable power and about 90hp for enough to tour on (with 2-4 cylinders for smoothness). A big comfy seat for the road, a narrow seat so it doesn't get in the way standing. I can go on. I don't mean to sound like I'm giving a smart answer.  The better a bike is off road the worse it will be on road. I rode dirt starting at age 10 at 15 I got my DL and rode street. I blasted around the dirt roads, trails, and little grass tracks on my 1974 Sportster because I could. I've ridden rough trails on stripped glides with jock shifts and my old rigid Panhead. There is a difference between negotiating dirt roads and a little easy trail on a big bike than tossing a real dirt bike all day on technical trails. I'm 48 now. I have a plated KTM450 and a DR650. I find I don't want to beat the 650 to death on technical trails and wear out the 450 and it's knobby's on the road. But I will ride some pavement to connect trails on the 450 and ride some trails on the 650. There is some overlap there. The thing is you don't want to break your body or bike a long way from home or your truck.



 I had a KTM950, It will do full lock wheelies. The question is Can you? Scott Harden said at the first 950 rally in Idaho a few years ago that there was only one person that could really ride a 950 offroad. He is not with us any more (Meonni).  It will do amazing things offroad, the thought of being stomped into the ground by a 500lb. motorcycle kept me pretty tame on it. The 950 is not a lightweight dirt bike. Instead of asking to wheelie one on a demo ride ask if they will lay it down and let you pick it up. The 950 is an awsome bike in a Ducati kind of way. Very performance oriented. Quality parts. The Austrians  expect 2 hours maintenance for every one hour riding. Not all KTM dealers support the 950. It would be a bitch to lose your clutch slave cylinder and the nearest dealer a hundred miles away says he will have it in a week for you. Very fun bike but time consuming to do routine maintenance.  



 I have an'02 BMW 1150 GS Adventure. Good bike easy to maintain and anvil tough. Heavy, stay on hard packed dirt and you are ok. 64K miles and still runs like new. I'ts been on Florida sand roads, stuck in a Carolina sand bank, gravel roads in the Black Hills to California 101.



 I had a Moto Guzzi Quota. good road bike, heavy stay on hard packed dirt. I wish I still had it.



 I had a '92 BMW R100GS , good bike, very reliable. These are like VW beetles, long in the tooth now but with TLC still a good ride.



I had KLR650 (my GF still has one), best do it all bang for the buck hands down. Draw back is it does nothing excelent. If this bike was a pro wrestler it would bodyslam all the BMW GS' and take the GS intercontinental (throw a Rick Flair WHOOOO in there) belt away from them.



 I have my DR set up as a mini adventure tourer. I cut corners, jump curbs, take shortcuts, and generally color outside the lines on this thing. Riders being the same (old, slow, fat like me) The KLR or DR (set up for me) I can run off and hide on a trail or dirt road from a KTM950. Sand caused puckering in a certain part of my anatomy on the 950. The DR and KLR caused it to relax and break wind in deep sand.



 I am picking up my new '06 Tiger Sat. morning. I have always liked them and wanted to get a new one while the getten' was good. I will not ask it to be an enduro bike but when I see my favorite road sign (pavement ends) it will have to keep going.



 You have a good 950 dealer in Murphy I think. Smith's Powersports?



 Buy what you like just don't be fooled thinking one bike will do it all.



 My advice if you decide to join what I call the Scratch, dent, and bruise club (others call it Dual Sport or Adventure touring). Buy a cheap lightweight beater to build skills and confidence so you won't tear up   your exploring bike. One day you can amaze your riding buddies when you jump a curb and ride up a grassy hill or hop over a small log blocking your path on your big ADV tourer without falling on your butt.



 Bike companys have to be thick skinned when it comes to building a Dual sport because it can't please everybody. Everybody will nit pick it to death. While the whiners are crying that the bikes don't have this or that the riders are out riding and getting dirty.



  Good Luck, Gus

[wonko the sane]

Sasquatch, could you tell us how valuable your experience in observed trials is to  taking  the Tiger on those tracks?



If I want to prepare myself to take a Tiger (or any big adventure bike) on tracks like these,  how do I do that?



Although I had a Gas Gas for a few years, I only learned the basics, and those here in Illinois; hardly the most challenging environment. Also, I was 51 years old when I bought the  Gas Gas, (55 now) so lets just say I didn't use it with the abandon a young rider would.



It may be too late for this old dog to  learn enough to only feel challenged, not terrified on the tracks you showed, but I'm willing to try.



I'm thinking a used Suzuki DRZ400S or something similar would be the next logical step.  What's your opinion?

[wasions]

Wonko.  Good tack - go DRZ.



You and I are the same age, and have roughly similar experiences, it seems, but at different times.  I rode trials in the '70's, when trials bikes weren't so trials specific - more like play bikes.  For me, though I love the playbike experience, trying to compare a 200 lb. +- playbike with a 500 lb. + big trailie just doesn't translate.  I'll never even consider planting a foot while bouncing the front tire four feet high on a tree and heading off in the other direction on the 955.  Since I own the DR350, I  won't even imperil my Tiger in the way Sasquatch does (though I admire your grit, Sas!).



For me, having the Tiger and the DR is a right-on comprimise.  (Now if I could just find a new '85 Honda TLR200!)

[Sasquatch]

Sasquatch, could you tell us how valuable your experience in observed trials is to  taking  the Tiger on those tracks?



If I want to prepare myself to take a Tiger (or any big adventure bike) on tracks like these,  how do I do that?



Although I had a Gas Gas for a few years, I only learned the basics, and those here in Illinois; hardly the most challenging environment. Also, I was 51 years old when I bought the  Gas Gas, (55 now) so lets just say I didn't use it with the abandon a young rider would.



It may be too late for this old dog to  learn enough to only feel challenged, not terrified on the tracks you showed, but I'm willing to try.



I'm thinking a used Suzuki DRZ400S or something similar would be the next logical step.  What's your opinion?

I have precisely zero trials experience.  I do have about 20 years of off road racing experience though, and about 10 years chasing (but not really catching) the fast guys on road race courses.  But, that said, living in Idaho and craving the high country, most of our dirt rides turned into survival events taking essentially motocross bikes places that mountain goats feared to trek.



The Tiger is amazingly stable off road.  Set up the suspension for you, and drop the air pressure way down in the tires.  And then, ride within your ability.



I must be honest with the group though.  2006 was the last year that I will take the Tiger into such extreme areas.  Gus said it perfect.  There are much better bikes for the rough stuff so dad and I bought KLRs.  They are in our shop now being completely reworked for ugly terrain.  They will never be KTM exc's, but at least on nasty dirt roads they will crave throwing roost.

[Advwannabe]

Sasquatch, could you tell us how valuable your experience in observed trials is to taking the Tiger on those tracks?

Wonko, hope you don't mind me offering an opinion. I think trials gives you invaluable skills for handling a Tiger in the rough stuff. Body weight positioning, rear brake use in tight slow going, getting the front light from virtually stationary are just some of the skills you can use in Tiger trail taming. Yes you can learn these skills in other disciplines  but I think trials honed them for me more than anything else.



Sasquatch, thank you for those great photos and roads. Your father must be quite a guy to take such a heavy machine down them at his age. Hope I'll be able to do the same if I make it that far!



Cheers