Tiger Dyno'd

[oxnsox]

Great post BB. Thanks.

[iansoady]

Excellent rundown. The only addition I would make is that the Triumph ECU uses the "magic" 14.5 air / fuel ratio to know when it should be running in closed loop ie monitoring the O2 sensor. If the target A/F is not 14.5 it ignores the signal from the sensor and runs in open loop mode hence will not adjust the long term fuel trim.

So when I remapped mine I made sure that at idle (which for some reason is around 20% load....) the A/F was 14.5 so that it would get the fuel trim right. This seems to have tidied up the idle which was a bit ragged but not affected the running at any other point.

Like you, this is what I have discovered from reading about the subject so it may be total rubbish.

[Bixxer Bob]

.....So when I remapped mine I made sure that at idle (which for some reason is around 20% load....) the A/F was 14.5 so that it would get the fuel trim right. This seems to have tidied up the idle which was a bit ragged but not affected the running at any other point.

Like you, this is what I have discovered from reading about the subject so it may be total rubbish.

Makes sense.  Mine also seems to think idle is 20% load so there doesn't seem to be any scenario when it'll use the numbers below that, unless that's where it goes on overrun.  Could also point to blocked air filter - I know mine is due soon.  That would cause a depression in the airbox which the ECM would see as load.  I'll have to look at the baro pressure voltage at engine off and again at tickover to see if there's a difference. One of these days I'll get round to doing some data logging whilst I'm riding and hopefully unravel some of these mysteries.

[John Stenhouse]

I love this forum, where else would you get this sort of info! Keep it coming, I'm learning loads.

[Bixxer Bob]

John,  for some of this, you don't need to go to the expense of Tuneboy.  I got started with a universal OBD II scanner from Ebay for about £15 which includes software and an OBD lead and a serial to usb coverter.  all you need is a laptop to run it on.

That will allow you to see the sensor values, and read and reset error codes.  It won't allow you to change trims though, or go anywhere near the maps.  nor will it let you reset the throttle position or CO.

[iansoady]

Mine also seems to think idle is 20% load so there doesn't seem to be any scenario when it'll use the numbers below that, unless that's where it goes on overrun.  Could also point to blocked air filter - I know mine is due soon.  That would cause a depression in the airbox which the ECM would see as load.

ISTR that the sensor is connected forward of the air filter so blocked filter wouldn't make any difference. But it's a little while since I've looked in there.

[Bixxer Bob]

Nah,  the sensor at the front of the box is the air temp sensor.  The flexi tube from the plastic elbow at the back right corner of the box, that runs along the subframe to the ECM, monitors the pressure.  The sensor is actually inside the ECM.

And for the casual reader, NEVER be tempted to blow or suck on it.  It's sensitive and you could do some very, very expensive damage.  Have you seen the price of a replacement ECM?? :shock:

By the way, I've noticed that the air temp rises pretty rapidly once the radiator warms up suggesting the air intake is too close.  When I get time I'll try to sort that.  Warm air is less dense and so contains less oxygen and so gives less power - although it shouldn't run weak because the ECM should compensate for that.

[jomi]

Here is my Tigru -03 dyno taken this autumn. I think it´s a little bit poor. There is Yoshimura Slip on & K&N filter, it´s mapped with the dealers Triumph race can map.

[Bixxer Bob]

That's pretty good right across the range, until what looks like 7.5k - 9k rpm (I'm only guessing because the scale is not on the chart) where the dip is.  In that rev range, you are very weak; 16 is dangerously weak - if you run in that rev range for long periods you'll burn valves.  It should never be higher than 14.7.  It needs a whole lot of fuel in there - 20% at least I would say.  You need a Tuneboy setup.

[Timbox2]

Here is my Tigru -03 dyno taken this autumn. I think it´s a little bit poor. There is Yoshimura Slip on & K&N filter, it´s mapped with the dealers Triumph race can map.

Are those back wheel figures ??   117hp,  104nm, thats pretty impressive if they are

[jomi]

Yes, they are back wheel figures  :D  :D  :D

[Bixxer Bob]

Bearing in mind I've only got 102.5, and that's good for a stock engine,   where's your other 15 coming from? It can't be the exhaust as I have a BlueFlame and, whilst the Yoshi might make maybe 3 or 4 more, I can't see it pushing 15.  If it does,  I'm taking the baffles out of my BF and see what I can get then...

Oh,  and what are you going to do about the weak mixture?

[jomi]

Yes, it was taken without any baffle. Because I d´ont use it, I also have NGK Iridium spark plugs not sure are they giving any more power. But in karting TMengines we use normaly such, because they are much reliable.

About this weak mixture: I was discussion with one of my friend who has worked many years with different kinds of race engines, such as karting, superbikes, motocross, snowmobiles, formula 3 etc. he was saying when I asked about shall I bought something like Power Comander, Rapid Bike or Enginejet modul? That he d´ont belive these. And why not ? Because these systems are actually cheating bikes normaly box. He said to me that this Triumphs remapping have to be enough, because I d´ont drive all the time like race bike as in full power.

I have not look about which coloured are the spark plugs after summer but I´am going to check these now on wintertime.

[Bixxer Bob]

Power Commanders don't work well with Lamda sensors as they fight each other.  To use one you'd have to bypass the sensor first.  The better (and cheaper) option is, as I said,  Tuneboy.  This allows you to change the fuel map in the ECM, not trick it like the PC does.

Your map is good for best power (around 13 to 1) right through the rev range until you get the dip around 7.5k.  Above that it's too weak,  it should be no weaker than 14.7 to 1 (theoretical best for efficiency but in practice produces a lot of heat).  The following is taken from Wikipedia:

A stoichiometric mixture (14.7-1) unfortunately burns very hot and can damage engine components if the engine is placed under high load at this fuel air mixture. Due to the high temperatures at this mixture, detonation of the fuel air mix shortly after maximum cylinder pressure is possible under high load (referred to as knocking or pinging). Detonation can cause serious engine damage as the uncontrolled burning of the fuel air mix can create very high pressures in the cylinder. As a consequence stoichiometric mixtures are only used under light load conditions. For acceleration and high load conditions, a richer mixture (lower air-fuel ratio) is used to produce cooler combustion products and thereby prevent detonation and overheating of the cylinder head.

But to put it in context,  you aren't using 7.5 - 9k much, even if you're ragging it, you 'll be thinking of changing up around there.  And in top gear, assuming standard sprockets, you don't cruise up there either as 6k equates to around 90 mph.  So whether you need to worry about it depends on how you ride.  More significant for you is you are developing much less power at high revs with the map as it is.

Most folks would be happy with it as it is because, if you start re-mapping, you really should only do that if you know what you're doing. Or get a professional....

[jomi]

As I told that friend of mine who said d´ont do anything more is professonal tuner. In Finland we have 40 km, 50 km, 80 km, 100, and 120 km speed limits. But lets se when I look these spark plugs how they look are they brown or white.